• The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

Page 1138 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Should we change the thread title?


  • Total voters
    131
I disagree with the previous post. never understood people fixation with the tour. It's one of the big 3 and you want to win it. But i rather have roglic giro and vuelta wins over 1 tour win. whereas some would take the 1 tour win over the giro and vuelta wins. Mind you i do think giro historically is worth more than the vuelta. And i understand the tour is the biggest race in cycling. But if i can only have 1 GT peak, and the giro offers 100 kms of flat TT, i know where i am going if i'm remco. even if he won't win the giro/tour over the TT. He can still get a cushion over some of his rivals with a long flat TT. It's part of how he won the vuelta.
I agree, TDF is the biggest race but cycling is much more than just the TDF. Not to mention that Evenepoel wants to win as many races as diverse as possible. He hasn’t won the Giro yet, so if the route suits him more this year just go for that. WC should also suit him a lot so that would work perfectly in a schedule with the Giro.
 
I disagree with the previous post. never understood people fixation with the tour. It's one of the big 3 and you want to win it. But i rather have roglic giro and vuelta wins over 1 tour win. whereas some would take the 1 tour win over the giro and vuelta wins. Mind you i do think giro historically is worth more than the vuelta. And i understand the tour is the biggest race in cycling. But if i can only have 1 GT peak, and the giro offers 100 kms of flat TT, i know where i am going if i'm remco. even if he won't win the giro/tour over the TT. He can still get a cushion over some of his rivals with a long flat TT. It's part of how he won the vuelta.
Perhaps I didn't explain my point well. It's not the Tour per se, if not for a rider of his calibre. Would we have expected anything less from Merckx, Hinault, Fignon or Lemond? No, their talent was such that it's impossible to miss a Tour in your palmarès. If we were talking about any other rider than Evenepoel, it wouldn't matter if he won lots of big races, but not the Tour. Remco's an excellent climber and TTist with a huge engine, so a natural Tour pedigree and a race he wants ardently to win. Evenepoel, in the final analysis, will have an asterix on his career of he doesn't win the Tour against Pogacar and Vingegaard. He could win a bunch of classics, GTs, worlds (although with this Pogacar there is nothing for anyone else) and he would still, without the Tour, be less touted. Roglic came into cycling from another sport, who, in contrast to Remco, did not have the incredible expectations placed upon him; and then blew it in the only Tour he could have won. Does Roglic's 4 Vueltas and 1 Giro compensate for the lost Tour? Ask yourself would Roglic trade a win in that Tour for his other GTs and the answer is obvious. Yes. So, with this much talent, winning another monument, Vuelta, a Giro or WC won't make a difference for Remco, the way a Tour would against them. The problem is the current gap between them, an abyss.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Oldermanish
Perhaps I didn't explain my point well. It's not the Tour per se, if not for a rider of his calibre. Would we have expected anything less from Merckx, Hinault, Fignon or Lemond? No, their talent was such that it's impossible to miss a Tour in your palmarès. If we were talking about any other rider than Evenepoel, it wouldn't matter if he won lots of big races, but not the Tour. Remco's an excellent climber and TTist with a huge engine, so a natural Tour pedigree and a race he wants ardently to win. Evenepoel, in the final analysis, will have an asterix on his career of he doesn't win the Tour against Pogacar and Vingegaard. He could win a bunch of classics, GTs, worlds (although with this Pogacar there is nothing for anyone else) and he would still, without the Tour, be less touted. Roglic came into cycling from another sport, who, in contrast to Remco, did not have the incredible expectations placed upon him; and then blew it in the only Tour he could have won. Does Roglic's 4 Vueltas and 1 Giro compensate for the lost Tour? Ask yourself would Roglic trade a win in that Tour for his other GTs and the answer is obvious. Yes. So, with this much talent, winning another monument, Vuelta, a Giro or WC won't make a difference for Remco, the way a Tour would against them. The problem is the current gap between them, an abyss.
If the answer is yes for Roglic, then i kindly disagree with Roglic. I will take that giro win and 4 vuelta wins over 1 tour. especially since giro historically is almost as big as the tour.

Also whilst it's always better beating the very best. As it makes the achievement greater still. That is secondary. First comes the actual winning stuff. When someone says Pidcock, they say cyclocross and Mountainbike WC. Never mind he did not beat Van Aert, and VdP when he became cyclocross champion. Nobody is putting an asterisk behind VdP wins this year in Flandes and Roubaix cause he had no 'real' opponents. Nobody dismisses Nibali Tour win despite the opponents being lacklustre that year. First is just winning, then comes whom you beat. If Remco biggest chances at winning are at the giro, and not the tour i'd say focus on the giro. He has not won the giro yet. Also both Vingegaard and Pogacar are likely to focus on 2 GT every year from now. So odds are he will have to beat one of them either way. Regardless if he does the giro or tour.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Luthor and Berniece
Perhaps I didn't explain my point well. It's not the Tour per se, if not for a rider of his calibre. Would we have expected anything less from Merckx, Hinault, Fignon or Lemond? No, their talent was such that it's impossible to miss a Tour in your palmarès. If we were talking about any other rider than Evenepoel, it wouldn't matter if he won lots of big races, but not the Tour. Remco's an excellent climber and TTist with a huge engine, so a natural Tour pedigree and a race he wants ardently to win. Evenepoel, in the final analysis, will have an asterix on his career of he doesn't win the Tour against Pogacar and Vingegaard. He could win a bunch of classics, GTs, worlds (although with this Pogacar there is nothing for anyone else) and he would still, without the Tour, be less touted. Roglic came into cycling from another sport, who, in contrast to Remco, did not have the incredible expectations placed upon him; and then blew it in the only Tour he could have won. Does Roglic's 4 Vueltas and 1 Giro compensate for the lost Tour? Ask yourself would Roglic trade a win in that Tour for his other GTs and the answer is obvious. Yes. So, with this much talent, winning another monument, Vuelta, a Giro or WC won't make a difference for Remco, the way a Tour would against them. The problem is the current gap between them, an abyss.
I don't disagree with you, but that doesn't mean he should never, ever skip the Tour either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
I disagree with the previous post. never understood people fixation with the tour. It's one of the big 3 and you want to win it. But i rather have roglic giro and vuelta wins over 1 tour win. whereas some would take the 1 tour win over the giro and vuelta wins. Mind you i do think giro historically is worth more than the vuelta. And i understand the tour is the biggest race in cycling. But if i can only have 1 GT peak, and the giro offers 100 kms of flat TT, i know where i am going if i'm remco. even if he won't win the giro/tour over the TT. He can still get a cushion over some of his rivals with a long flat TT. It's part of how he won the vuelta.
The reason the tour is so important to the teams is because the tour is so important to the sponsors. I have read that as much as 80% of a teams annual budget is derived from eyeballs that watch the TDF. If my rider wins the tour, I will get 6X more viewers on my brand than if he wins the Giro or Vuelta.

The TDF is the "World Cup" or "Super Bowl" of bike racing, the Giro and Vuelta are nice little races for those that can't win on the biggest stage. I can't imagine a sponsor wanting to pay 5M+ for a rider that avoids the TDF because he is scared of the competition.
 
If the answer is yes for Roglic, then i kindly disagree with Roglic. I will take that giro win and 4 vuelta wins over 1 tour. especially since giro historically is almost as big as the tour.

Also whilst it's always better beating the very best. As it makes the achievement greater still. That is secondary. First comes the actual winning stuff. When someone says Pidcock, they say cyclocross and Mountainbike WC. Never mind he did not beat Van Aert, and VdP when he became cyclocross champion. Nobody is putting an asterisk behind VdP wins this year in Flandes and Roubaix cause he had no 'real' opponents. Nobody dismisses Nibali Tour win despite the opponents being lacklustre that year. First is just winning, then comes whom you beat. If Remco biggest chances at winning are at the giro, and not the tour i'd say focus on the giro. He has not won the giro yet. Also both Vingegaard and Pogacar are likely to focus on 2 GT every year from now. So odds are he will have to beat one of them either way. Regardless if he does the giro or tour.
I disagree, Roglic would want that Tour more then all the other GTs. Like it or not the Tour, which has always been the biggest race in the sport, has grown too big for it's own good, as the rest of cycling is literally eclipsed by it for all but real knowledgeable fans. And even so, for the biggest talents of the sport, which means big engines over multiple terrain, disciplines and duration (and Van der Poel is not in this category, who can have his cobbled monuments and horay, horah), the Tour crowns the king. But I'm talking about a very select élites, and Remco is in this category. It's, therefore, incumbant upon him at this stage of his career to ride the Tour each year. Winning the Giro is fine, but then he must race the Tour. Unless you think he's a Carapez or Hindley type of talent, who can define the season a success winning the Giro. I do not. Remco has entered maturity and for him this means the Tour isn't an option any longer, anymore than it is for Pogacar.
 
Last edited:
I don't disagree with you, but that doesn't mean he should never, ever skip the Tour either.
He can't skip the Tour, as he's entered maturity. His days of being able to opt out of the race are over, and rightly so, especially as he got third in his first attempt. Besides the sponsors wouldn't put up with it, even in Belgium. He's so good he's damned to the Tour, because presently two are superior. He can do 2 GTs now, but the Tour must be one of them
 
  • Like
Reactions: AmRacer
He can't skip the Tour, as he's entered maturity. His days of being able to opt out of the race are over, and rightly so, especially as he got third in his first attempt. Besides the sponsors wouldn't put up with it, even in Belgium. He's so good he's damned to the Tour, because presently two are superior. He can do 2 GTs now, but the Tour must be one of them
He should work the Tour into his priorities. His effort last year while recovering definitely improved his end of season efforts; right up to the point of fatigue. He should benefit from that next season.
He raced the last Tour like he should: get some exposure, a stage win or two and test himself on terrain that doesn't suit him. It'll help him approach the actual opportunity to win when it presents itself. That said, I always think a rider of his quality should race what he wants to race. He only owes his sponsors what he agreed to do based on his salary or he'll end in the burn out ward. So much relies on the hard work of training and tactics that a good attitude will help.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Extinction
I would not claim to know Roglic his mind. But i stand by my statement that for me winning a giro and 4 vuelta is better (and bigger) than winning 1 Tour. I'd say 1 giro and 1 vuelta combo might even edge a Tour win, but just barely cause vuelta like it or not is just not as big as winning the giro let alone the tour. The vuelta remains a GT and third most important GC. But Giro and Tour just have more history.

Remco skipping the tour in favour of the giro would have nothing to do with him evading his opponents. Simply with him maximizing his chances to actually win the GT by choosing the one that suit him most. For me if he wins the Tour the Giro becomes more important from that moment on, and if he wins the giro, the tour becomes more important from then on. But that's just me. I don't see the tour as a must ride for any rider. The tour is the bigger race, but giro is still near as important to try and win for me.

To me people that insist someone needs to ride the tour just cause it's biggest race, sponsors. ... Honestly i don't care about that stuff. no doubt the sponsors do. but i don't. At the end of your career i feel you need to have done everything possible to have won as much as possible. Not do the races cause your sponsors want them. I think Lefevre is one the very best, but he too was moaning about the olympics. Well, pretty sure Remco will forever be happy he fully focused on them.
 
He should work the Tour into his priorities. His effort last year while recovering definitely improved his end of season efforts; right up to the point of fatigue. He should benefit from that next season.
He raced the last Tour like he should: get some exposure, a stage win or two and test himself on terrain that doesn't suit him. It'll help him approach the actual opportunity to win when it presents itself. That said, I always think a rider of his quality should race what he wants to race. He only owes his sponsors what he agreed to do based on his salary or he'll end in the burn out ward. So much relies on the hard work of training and tactics that a good attitude will help.
Unfortunately, a rider of his calibre, owes the sponsors his presence at the Tour. Sport is business and sponsors want exposure, for which the Tour is a must for him. The team being there without its marquis rider, isn't a return on their investment. At this point every other significant win is fine and great, but skipping the Tour would be a major sporting negligence, unless he suddenly downgrades his ambitions. What he wants is relevant only within this framework now. If I were him, I'd push for Paris-Nice, MSR, Ardennes, Giro-Tour program next year, then Worlds.
 
I would not claim to know Roglic his mind. But i stand by my statement that for me winning a giro and 4 vuelta is better (and bigger) than winning 1 Tour. I'd say 1 giro and 1 vuelta combo might even edge a Tour win, but just barely cause vuelta like it or not is just not as big as winning the giro let alone the tour. The vuelta remains a GT and third most important GC. But Giro and Tour just have more history.

Remco skipping the tour in favour of the giro would have nothing to do with him evading his opponents. Simply with him maximizing his chances to actually win the GT by choosing the one that suit him most. For me if he wins the Tour the Giro becomes more important from that moment on, and if he wins the giro, the tour becomes more important from then on. But that's just me. I don't see the tour as a must ride for any rider. The tour is the bigger race, but giro is still near as important to try and win for me.

To me people that insist someone needs to ride the tour just cause it's biggest race, sponsors. ... Honestly i don't care about that stuff. no doubt the sponsors do. but i don't. At the end of your career i feel you need to have done everything possible to have won as much as possible. Not do the races cause your sponsors want them. I think Lefevre is one the very best, but he too was moaning about the olympics. Well, pretty sure Remco will forever be happy he fully focused on them.
I appreciate your sentiments, but, really, the Tour is so much bigger than the Giro and Vuelta for a rider like Roglic and Evenepoel. For an Aru, fine, a Vuelta is a huge accomplishment, but not even four of them compensates for the Tour Roglic lost. In 20 years nobody will remember his 4 Vueltas, but only the Tour he lost. I know that's harsh, but the truth. Ask Fignon
 
He'll start the tdf. But depending on the giro reveal he might be better of doing that. I disagree with people saying he should do the tdf cause it's the biggest race. He should put his main focus on the GT that suits him most(between the giro and tour).
Sponsors have an impact on those decisions too. They want their biggest name in the biggest race.
 
I disagree with the previous post. never understood people fixation with the tour. It's one of the big 3 and you want to win it. But i rather have roglic giro and vuelta wins over 1 tour win. whereas some would take the 1 tour win over the giro and vuelta wins. Mind you i do think giro historically is worth more than the vuelta. And i understand the tour is the biggest race in cycling. But if i can only have 1 GT peak, and the giro offers 100 kms of flat TT, i know where i am going if i'm remco. even if he won't win the giro/tour over the TT. He can still get a cushion over some of his rivals with a long flat TT. It's part of how he won the vuelta.
If you’ve been reading on here for a few years (or go back and read), you’ll know that the regular posters don’t rate the Tour higher than other races or find the racing better, although the Pog vs Ving rivalry has added a bit more interest. But there’s no getting around the fact that the Tour is the 800 lb gorilla of the cycling industry and the cycling world. So many teams’ sponsors and managers prioritize that as their season target. It’s simply bigger, but most on here don’t think it’s better.

ed. You can do the conversion to kilos on your own ;)
 
I appreciate your sentiments, but, really, the Tour is so much bigger than the Giro and Vuelta for a rider like Roglic and Evenepoel. For an Aru, fine, a Vuelta is a huge accomplishment, but not even four of them compensates for the Tour Roglic lost. In 20 years nobody will remember his 4 Vueltas, but only the Tour he lost. I know that's harsh, but the truth. Ask Fignon
That has more to do with storylines. Not with value. Flawed storylines if you look a bit deeper. Fignon won 2 tours btw. Value=/= storylines. Drama sells even more than succes at the end of the day.
 
That is your believe narrated by media and tour bias. Me i'm not into the tour or nothing story. In truth until money became the biggest defining factor most italians would focus on the giro, and most spaniards on the vuelta as their main goal. Money talks, but it don't determine all. History matters for me. And Giro history is nothing to sniff at. If a rider wants to build his season around the giro, i'm all for it. After all i'm just a fan, not a sponsor who needs to think about money.
 
If you’ve been reading on here for a few years (or go back and read), you’ll know that the regular posters don’t rate the Tour higher than other races or find the racing better, although the Pog vs Ving rivalry has added a bit more interest. But there’s no getting around the fact that the Tour is the 800 lb gorilla of the cycling industry and the cycling world. So many teams’ sponsors and managers prioritize that as their season target. It’s simply bigger, but most on here don’t think it’s better.

ed. You can do the conversion to kilos on your own ;)
I certainly don't say a better race, but the simple truth is that no other race commands that every rider participating has aimed to be in the highest form possible. And it draws the truly biggest engines among those who can potentially win it. Neither the Giro nor Vuelta do that, which are for lesser talents, unless the Tour champion wants a double.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sciatic and AmRacer
That is your believe narrated by media and tour bias. Me i'm not into the tour or nothing story. In truth until money became the biggest defining factor most italians would focus on the giro, and most spaniards on the vuelta as their main goal. Money talks, but it don't determine all. History matters for me. And Giro history is nothing to sniff at. If a rider wants to build his season around the giro, i'm all for it. After all i'm just a fan, not a sponsor who needs to think about money.
You cannot be biased for or against the single biggest race, the Tour. It's the most important race. Remco has already tried both the Giro and Vuelta without the Tour.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Extinction
That is your believe narrated by media and tour bias. Me i'm not into the tour or nothing story. In truth until money became the biggest defining factor most italians would focus on the giro, and most spaniards on the vuelta as their main goal. Money talks, but it don't determine all. History matters for me. And Giro history is nothing to sniff at. If a rider wants to build his season around the giro, i'm all for it. After all i'm just a fan, not a sponsor who needs to think about money.
And those Italians and Spaniards, with few exceptions, could not win the Tour. It's no wonder a Frenchman hasn't won the Tour since Hinault in 85. That right there is the colossal difference in magnitude. And I'm not sniffing at these races, which are maginficent in their own right, but considering the issue with regards to a talent such as Evenepoel, who is "condemned" to do the Grand Bouclé at least until it becomes evident he can't win it, but by that time he'll be on another contract.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ManicJack
Seems that you can be biased from the number of people who insist you need to race the tour. You really don't. now clearly evenepoel loves the tour, so no doubt you all will get to see him at the tdf. I'm just saying i disagree with the sentiment he needs to be at the tour. Like i said, if the giro profile suits him better, i'd rather seen him put his main focus on that. Obviously many here are of the mantra you need to be at the tour cause it's the biggest, and won't budge from that. But neither will I. I rly don't feel you automatically need to show up at the tour. Obviously i want him at the tour more often than not. But if the giro has a parcours that suits him perfectly. I rather see him ride the giro as his main focus that particular year.
 
And those Italians and Spaniards, with few exceptions, could not win the Tour. It's no wonder a Frenchman hasn't won the Tour since Hinault in 85. That right there is the colossal difference in magnitude.
Coppi, Bartali, Gimondi, Nibali disagree with you.
Delgado, Indurain, Contador disagree as well.
And then there are the list of riders that def. had the talent but somehow never won it.

Cycling has become bigger since 85. so point is flawed to begin with. (money)
Since 2010 only Contador won the vuelta for spain.
Only Basso, Scarponi and Nibali won the giro for italia.
Contador won the tdf, nibali won the tdf, basso was capable of winning the tdf.
 
Last edited:
Seems that you can be biased from the number of people who insist you need to race the tour. You really don't. now clearly evenepoel loves the tour, so no doubt you all will get to see him at the tdf. I'm just saying i disagree with the sentiment he needs to be at the tour. Like i said, if the giro profile suits him better, i'd rather seen him put his main focus on that. Obviously many here are of the mantra you need to be at the tour cause it's the biggest, and won't budge from that. But neither will I. I rly don't feel you automatically need to show up at the tour. Obviously i want him at the tour more often than not. But if the giro has a parcours that suits him perfectly. I rather see him ride the giro as his main focus that particular year.
Heh, unless Pog shows up. Should he do the Giro then? Hell yes! And then the Tour!
 
Heh, unless Pog shows up. Should he do the Giro then? Hell yes! And then the Tour!
Like I said, i believe he should look at the parcours of the Giro and Tour each year, and decide which suits him more. (coupled with his other objectives for that year).

Remco should not determine his races by his opponents. But by his own strenghts. You win some, you lose some, (hell, against Pogacar and vingegaard he might always lose) but that is sports.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
Like I said, i believe he should look at the parcours of the Giro and Tour each year, and decide which suits him more. (coupled with his other objectives for that year).

Remco should not determine his races by his opponents. But by his own strenghts. You win some, you lose some, (hell, against Pogacar and vingegaard he might always lose) but that is sports.
Tour of Denmark, Tour of Norway...that's the races for you. No, Remco is good enough to be at the biggest race. No reason to avoid it anymore
 
  • Like
Reactions: Extinction
Like I said, i believe he should look at the parcours of the Giro and Tour each year, and decide which suits him more. (coupled with his other objectives for that year).

Remco should not determine his races by his opponents. But by his own strenghts. You win some, you lose some, (hell, against Pogacar and vingegaard he might always lose) but that is sports.
Right, but he himself said the Tour is his destiny. He knows he doesn't have a choice.