Teams & RidersThe Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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Should we change the thread title?

• Total voters
102

johnymax

I also thought it was quite funny to use a decimal number on a scale from 1 to 10, not johnymax.

Especially because it doesn't correspond to 93 %, given that 1 is 0 %, and 10 is 100 %, so it's more like 92%. I'm not sure whether he factored that in.
I'm not sure your maths is correct. By your logic 9.3 would be more like 83.7%.

Edit:
And I'm not being sarcastic here lol

Sandisfan

tobydawq

I'm not sure your maths is correct. By your logic 9.3 would be more like 83.7%.

Edit:
And I'm not being sarcastic here lol

No, it's 92.2222.

1 is 0%, 2 is 1/9=11.111 %, 3 is 22.222 %, and so forth.

The conversion formula is

(Scale number-1)/9*100 % = percentage.

hayneplane

That's insane. Was Nibali a good bike handler at Remco's age? I'll leave it up to the historians. Plus what makes you say " he will never be an elite descender?"
With how seemingly insistent you are that I am wrong I would like you to state why you think I am wrong.

I think he is as big a talent as I have ever seen in over 25 years of me following cycling and would be astonished if he never wins a Grand Tour but that does not mean he will not still have weaknesses.

Logic-is-your-friend

No, it's 92.2222.

1 is 0%, 2 is 1/9=11.111 %, 3 is 22.222 %, and so forth.

The conversion formula is

(Scale number-1)/9*100 % = percentage.
Weren't you a math teacher? It's 88.888888%
100*8/9

EDIT: not sure how you messed that up, because had you followed your own logic, you would have found the correct result. If 2 = 11.111% and 3 = 22.222% then 9 would be 88.888%.

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Sandisfan

senna6541

He's just a kid with 3+ years on the bike. I wouldn't put "never" next to anything about him. He could end up being a crap descender, or one of the best ever. All remains to be seen.

Off topic, I think this isn't the place to discuss how, when, or why someone was or wasn't blocked. It's an Evenepoel thread, and personal spats are noise. Simple solution is to stop blocking people and just ignore their posts so we don't have to read about how someone has been blocked for the 3rd or 4th time...takes a modicum of self control, I know...
I would argue that he will never be an elite descender or bike handler given his relatively late start to cycling. Think about how many more hours/reps someone like MVDP has to understand speed, braking, grip, etc. on a bike on all kinds of surfaces than Remco has, or ever will have. He's probably already a good enough descender to win GT's (given all his other freakish talent), but no way he ever has the feel for how to drive a bike the same way that someone like MVDP or WVA does.

Logic-is-your-friend

I would argue that he will never be an elite descender or bike handler given his relatively late start to cycling. Think about how many more hours/reps someone like MVDP has to understand speed, braking, grip, etc. on a bike on all kinds of surfaces than Remco has, or ever will have. He's probably already a good enough descender to win GT's (given all his other freakish talent), but no way he ever has the feel for how to drive a bike the same way that someone like MVDP or WVA does.
I know you're trying to be nice, but there is no reason to include van Aert here. I love him to death, and he's probably a well above average bikehandler compared to the rest of the peloton (and likely a lot more skilled than Remco in that regard), but he's not like van der Poel. I would rather mention Sagan probably. Van Aert does seem to be a good descender though. But frankly, so did Remco untill he crashed on that bridge.

Armchair cyclist

Weren't you a math teacher? It's 88.888888%
100*8/9

EDIT: not sure how you messed that up, because had you followed your own logic, you would have found the correct result. If 2 = 11.111% and 3 = 22.222% then 9 would be 88.888%.
But are we not looking at 8.3*100/9 (i.e. 92.222...)? Where did 8 come from?

Netserk

Weren't you a math teacher? It's 88.888888%
100*8/9

EDIT: not sure how you messed that up, because had you followed your own logic, you would have found the correct result. If 2 = 11.111% and 3 = 22.222% then 9 would be 88.888%.
9.3, not 9.

Logic-is-your-friend

But are we not looking at 8.3*100/9 (i.e. 92.222...)? Where did 8 come from?

9.3, not 9.
Ah, i thought the guy said "9 on a scale of 1-10"... if he actually did say 9.3 (why would he even say that??) on a scale from 1 to 10, then i stand corrected. In that case it's 100*8.3/9 which is indeed 92.222%. Sorry, should have read the initial post better. I thought the whole thing was about him saying "9 on a scale of 1-10" not equaling 90%.

tobydawq

Ah, i thought the guy said "9 on a scale of 1-10"... if he actually did say 9.3 (why would he even say that??) on a scale from 1 to 10, then i stand corrected. In that case it's 100*8.3/9 which is indeed 92.222%. Sorry, should have read the initial post better. I thought the whole thing was about him saying "9 on a scale of 1-10" not equaling 90%.

It was indeed 9.3 on a scale from 1 to 10 which was what was weird.

johnymax

No, it's 92.2222.

1 is 0%, 2 is 1/9=11.111 %, 3 is 22.222 %, and so forth.

The conversion formula is

(Scale number-1)/9*100 % = percentage.
Yeah, I miscalculated big time. My result doesn't even make sense. I made a mistake even following my own logic. I'll double check next time.

I used to be good at maths, not anymore it seems

red_flanders

I would argue that he will never be an elite descender or bike handler given his relatively late start to cycling. Think about how many more hours/reps someone like MVDP has to understand speed, braking, grip, etc. on a bike on all kinds of surfaces than Remco has, or ever will have. He's probably already a good enough descender to win GT's (given all his other freakish talent), but no way he ever has the feel for how to drive a bike the same way that someone like MVDP or WVA does.
Well first, I didn't say he would be like MVDP. He's not a CX or MTB guy. That said, I don't know how anyone could come to any conclusion after his short stint on the bike. There's nothing magical about starting young other than experience. I know guys who started cycling later in life who were always athletes, who are amazing descenders . If ya got skills, ya probably got skills. This kid was an elite footballer, he's coordinated and has skills. Just needs experience. Again, he could be great or he could be just OK. I seriously doubt he's going to be a bad descender.

Bonimenier

I feel like people make way too many conclusions considering his descending abilities after his crash. If I recall correctly it was the first time he crashed in a descent. The only other important descents he's done, were during the WC in Innsbruck and in San Sebastian. On both occasions he looked pretty good.

Sandisfan

senna6541

Well first, I didn't say he would be like MVDP. He's not a CX or MTB guy. That said, I don't know how anyone could come to any conclusion after his short stint on the bike. There's nothing magical about starting young other than experience. I know guys who started cycling later in life who were always athletes, who are amazing descenders . If ya got skills, ya probably got skills. This kid was an elite footballer, he's coordinated and has skills. Just needs experience. Again, he could be great or he could be just OK. I seriously doubt he's going to be a bad descender.
I get it Flanders. He's already plenty capable and I'm sure he'll continue to improve. Just saying that cycling is a unique wheel sport with the cyclist actually acting as the chassis, engine and driver - and I think folks take for granted the developed skill (through reps/hours) and natural talent (think of MVDP innate feel for handling) it takes to drive a bike at 65mph down a mountain or at 40mph+ in a bunch sprint. My guess is there are plenty of guys with good chassis and engines that don't make it cause they can't handle the risks of a 65mph descent or the chaos of a bunch sprint.

red_flanders

I get it Flanders. He's already plenty capable and I'm sure he'll continue to improve. Just saying that cycling is a unique wheel sport with the cyclist actually acting as the chassis, engine and driver - and I think folks take for granted the developed skill (through reps/hours) and natural talent (think of MVDP innate feel for handling) it takes to drive a bike at 65mph down a mountain or at 40mph+ in a bunch sprint. My guess is there are plenty of guys with good chassis and engines that don't make it cause they can't handle the risks of a 65mph descent or the chaos of a bunch sprint.
Pretty sure we all get what a bike is, Senna. We'll see how he progresses. Not even sure what you're saying any more, you started with "I would argue that he will never be an elite descender or bike handler". Now he's already "plenty capable". We're lost in a sea of subjectivity at this point...

Netserk

That said, I don't know how anyone could come to any conclusion after his short stint on the bike.
Why not? Of course not a conclusion set in stone, but of course one can find it more plausible that he'd be an average (or below average) descender than an above average descender. Especially for the short term.

Of all the very best descenders in the peloton, I can't think of a single one that wasn't great to begin with. Nor do I have the impression that riders generally descend better when they are older. So I am willing to bet that he will never be an elite descender, and that he'll at best be an average descender.

red_flanders

Why not? Of course not a conclusion set in stone, but of course one can find it more plausible that he'd be an average (or below average) descender than an above average descender. Especially for the short term.

Of all the very best descenders in the peloton, I can't think of a single one that wasn't great to begin with. Nor do I have the impression that riders generally descend better when they are older. So I am willing to bet that he will never be an elite descender, and that he'll at best be an average descender.
Why not was answered above, because he hasn’t had enough time on the bike, and one crash does not a poor descender make.

Did you see any of those great descenders on year 3 of their bike racing career? I’m guessing not. Froome was an absolute joke of a descender early, and got quite good. And to be nice, let’s just say he’s not exactly a natural athlete.

Zoef-Lightning

BANNED
I wonder whether his heavy fall will affect his ability to descend or whether it will lead to fear of falling. Someone who remembers other riders who did this before and got scared ?

JosefK

I wonder whether his heavy fall will affect his ability to descend or whether it will lead to fear of falling. Someone who remembers other riders who did this before and got scared ?
For a long time, Thibaut Pinot had problems with the mental aspect of descending. It really dispirited him during one Tour de France quite a few years back. I think it was in 2013. He had a bad crash on a descent as a junior rider, and that seemed to be a real issue for him in years to follow. In the years after the 2013 TDF, he seemed to manage the problems with descending well enough to remain a GC contender in stage races and in some grand tours.

Sandisfan

Andre

With how seemingly insistent you are that I am wrong I would like you to state why you think I am wrong.

I think he is as big a talent as I have ever seen in over 25 years of me following cycling and would be astonished if he never wins a Grand Tour but that does not mean he will not still have weaknesses.
Yes, of course, everybody has a weakness or two to improve on. My apologies if I seemed to insist that you were wrong; I don't think I insisted, just discussing whether Nibali was a good descender at Remco's current age. But anyway, yeah, I do hope he becomes as good a descender as he can.

Extinction

It was so disappointing to not have him in the Giro last year, his precoscious development not being accompanied by a level of professional mastery that cost him at that downhill bend of Lombardia. Having missed his grand tour debut, he will naturally be behind Pogacar in terms of progression, which is a shame. I was really looking forward to a battle between these youngsters already in 2021, but alas Remco now has to "catch back up," whereas Pogacar will have a second Tour in his legs this year making things all the more dificult for the Belgian. I think he would have won last year's Giro, but he'll be fortunate to be competative in this year's. What a difference a season makes.

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Oldermanish

I feel like people make way too many conclusions considering his descending abilities after his crash. If I recall correctly it was the first time he crashed in a descent. The only other important descents he's done, were during the WC in Innsbruck and in San Sebastian. On both occasions he looked pretty good.
Based on the video he was inattentive at best. He's at the back and drifted to an outside line which is generally the strategy for self-inflicted damage. Several of Richie Porte's crashes looked like that and his reactions were stiff. He's gotten better.
As for Remco; he just needs to heal up first like everyone is saying.

postmanhat

LesDiablesRouges

Based on the video he was inattentive at best. He's at the back and drifted to an outside line which is generally the strategy for self-inflicted damage. Several of Richie Porte's crashes looked like that and his reactions were stiff. He's gotten better.
As for Remco; he just needs to heal up first like everyone is saying.

To be fair that crash area is notoriously dangerous. Certainly rider error was involved but there have been several others riders who have crashed there with severe results.

I do wonder why a net of sorts wasn't placed there given the history preceding the race.

If he recovers from the accident properly I think Remco will be ok when it comes to descending although that downhill toward the end MSR scares the bejesus out of me.

Oldermanish

Logic-is-your-friend

Some old Italian guy on twitter made a point a few months ago, not long after the accident. He noticed the white painted line on the side of the road, to... well mark the edge of the road, leads directly to the part of the wall that sticks out. If Remco were to have used that, consciously or not, as a visual marker, that could also explain the accident. Obviously, that's not the way to go, one of the first things they teach you is to keep your gaze on the far point in the bend. So to be clear, this is pure conjecture.