Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[happytramp]

I think it mainly shows how weird it was to hype someone as future dominant GT winner after barely any big climbs at top level races. Meanwhile his wins were generally ITTs and hilly races where he beats a group on the flats, and I think this has been extrapolated to GTs way too much. In all honesty I think the crazy expectations and goal post moving is the main reason why Evenepoel is a polarizing figure to begin with.

This basically. I like him, think he's a potentially awesome rider.... But people (tons on here) who assumed he was going to be a real GT threat based on practically no evidence of how he'd fair over multiple high/steep climbs is baffelling... If he's become 'polarising' it's nothing to do with him or his ability but the people who've been calling him the second coming of eddy merckx and jesus combined before he'd done enough to warrant it..... I'd love to see him become a serious contender some day in classics and GT's

(and in my opinion for someone of his age, just back from a long injury, on their first GT he's doing absolutely fine)

 

[Rollthedice]

I think it mainly shows how weird it was to hype someone as future dominant GT winner after barely any big climbs at top level races. Meanwhile his wins were generally ITTs and hilly races where he beats a group on the flats, and I think this has been extrapolated to GTs way too much. In all honesty I think the crazy expectations and goal post moving is the main reason why Evenepoel is a polarizing figure to begin with.

As far as I understood yesterday was his first competitive 40 min + climb. He is 20 something, had a terrible crash, didn't compete for 9 months, starts his first stage race longer than a week, the hardest in professional cycling and some are expecting him to go ahead and win it. I really hope he didn't. On top we discover he is a poor bike handler and most likely traumatized by the Lombardia incident. Was it irresponsible from the team to throw him in the Giro? If they had expectations then yes, if this race is approached as learning and evaluating then no.

 

[Valanga]

As far as I understood yesterday was his first competitive 40 min + climb. He is 20 something, had a terrible crash, didn't compete for 9 months, starts his first stage race longer than a week, the hardest in professional cycling and some are expecting him to go ahead and win it. I really hope he didn't. On top we discover he is a poor bike handler and most likely traumatized by the Lombardia incident. Was it irresponsible from the team to throw him in the Giro? If they had expectations then yes, if this race is approached as learning and evaluating then no.

Imho he sounds very relaxed in his interviews, which tells me he is happy -or at least somewhat satisfied- with how it's going.
And he should be. Both him and the team can learn a lot from this. Remco has a lot to work on, but so does the team. And I think that's exactly why he went to the Giro and not some smaller races.

I'm 100% sure he can be a competitive GT rider in the future. But he's obviously not there yet. Luckily there is plenty of time left, and perhaps they can let Sagan take care of Remco for some time during the off season for example, if there is still some time left when he's done practicing curling, darts, ballet, ....

 

[Red Rick]

As far as I understood yesterday was his first competitive 40 min + climb. He is 20 something, had a terrible crash, didn't compete for 9 months, starts his first stage race longer than a week, the hardest in professional cycling and some are expecting him to go ahead and win it. I really hope he didn't. On top we discover he is a poor bike handler and most likely traumatized by the Lombardia incident. Was it irresponsible from the team to throw him in the Giro? If they had expectations then yes, if this race is approached as learning and evaluating then no.

It's good to learn from. The big question is how much can you blame the crash, but I think his level in the first week was pretty comparable to before his crash, with the difference just being a much stronger opposition. He also said he felt fine going into the Zoncolan which basically tells you he just runs empty on a climb like that if he's being honest.

 

[SafeBet]

I'm 100% sure he can be a competitive GT rider in the future. But he's obviously not there yet. Luckily there is plenty of time left, and perhaps they can let Sagan take care of Remco for some time during the off season for example, if there is still some time left when he's done practicing curling, darts, ballet, ....

DQS signing both Sagan and Nibali now makes a lot more sense.

 

[dutchdescent]

Define right level.

He's in the top10 after two weeks of his first GT. He's not at the right level only if people expect him to win every race he enters from now till the end of his career. Otherwise I think he's fine. He's not cracking. He's just going slower uphill than a few other great climbers (some of whom would have probably beaten him even before his crash on a climb like Zoncolan).

Again, he should leave the race only if he's ill or if the team sees abnormalities in his numbers. Otherwise, this is a learning experience.

I think I (and clearly a few others on this forum and elsewhere) expected a fight for the win? That was foolish perhaps but he looked very good in the 1st week. I think the potential for the top step is truly there so more a question of management now. Just my view of course.

 

[happytramp]

DQ's handling of him is the problem.. Contrast it with the jakobsen situation... He's been allowed roll along in the peloton, not getting involved in leadouts or sprints... That's the correct way to rehabilitate a young rider after a long injury.... Not throwing into his first GT as the joint leader and doing nothing to dispel the hype.

 

[limak_]

Was it irresponsible from the team to throw him in the Giro? [...] if this race is approached as learning and evaluating then no.

Imho still it was. GT is always a huge both physical and psychological demand, having a truly debilitating impact on rider's body whether you're under pressure to make a result or not (ofc it's reduced in the latter case, but still very significant). Even if the team didn't expect much from him before the start, knowing Remco's mentality, he certainly had very high expectations for himslef, and I really belive that he was the one who pushed for Giro participation most.

Then choosing Giro as his first start after the injury (what's important, caused by a high speed crash on a descent while his weak bike handling skills were already known before that incident, being nothing strange, considering his late start into cycling) is a direct putting him at enormous risk.

It's obviously great to gain GT experience as soon as possible to evaluate yourself in this kind of effort, realize what needs to be improved etc. But not coming straight after injury (moreover having complications during recovery period), with not enough preparation and still having some crash induced trauma remained in your mind. As I said before, he has plenty of time to learn how to become a GC rider (if he truly wants to be one) ahead of him. I can't see the start in this year's Giro having any positive long-term impact on acheiving this goal in the future. Actually it could be quite the opposite.

From some people's statements I have an impression that Remco is 36 years old Froome, for whom this Giro was the last and only occasion in his carrer to win the GT.

 

[Red Rick]

Imho still it was. GT is always a huge both physical and psychological demand, having a truly debilitating impact on rider's body whether you're under pressure to make a result or not (ofc it's reduced in the latter case, but still very significant). Even if the team didn't expect much from him before the start, knowing Remco's mentality, he certainly had very high expectations for himslef, and I really belive that he was the one who pushed for Giro participation most.

Then choosing Giro as his first start after the injury (what's important, caused by a high speed crash on a descent while his weak bike handling skills were already known before that incident, being nothing strange, considering his late start into cycling) is a direct putting him at enormous risk.

It's obviously great to gain GT experience as soon as possible to evaluate yourself in this kind of effort, realize what needs to be improved etc. But not coming straight after injury (moreover having complications during recovery period), with not enough preparation and still having some crash induced trauma remained in your mind. As I said before, he has plenty of time to learn how to become a GC rider (if he truly wants to be one) ahead of him. I can't see the start in this year's Giro having any positive long-term impact on acheiving this goal in the future. Actually it could be quite the opposite.

From some people's statements I have an impression that Remco is 36 years old Froome, for whom this Giro was the last and only occasion in his carrer to win the GT.

The main point of contention has always been about the gigantic expectations and the shifting goal posts. Not that he couldn't possibly be a legit GT contender. A week ago we were arguing wether he was dropped on stage 4/9 yes or not, basically arguing it doesn't mean Bernal is better on the Zoncolan. Stuff like talking how he would've won the Giro last year. Stuff how surely he would've beaten Ganna in the Tirreno ITT in 2020 when Ganna completely crushed the parcours record. Talking about taking 2 minutes in an ITT where even Dumoulin took only 1'20 on Quintana. Talking about the Poland win and then extrapolating that 1 on 1 to a GT race situation.

When the Giro is the Bag, nobody is defensive or serious. When Evenepoel would have won it gets defended at every point.

 

[peterfin]

I assume that DQS has smart people who can assess if he was ready, physically and mentally, to start this Giro. The experience and the data they get from it has a lot of value to tune his training and the future team around him. Prior to the start there was nobody from DQS talking about going for the podium. Obviously, seeing how Remco performed during the first week, they gave him full support to defend his position. He will learn most while battling for GC. I am sure they check after each stage if his values are still ok so they can fully assess the risks. Without having access to all information its easy to claim they are doing a bad job but there is little to support that claim.

 

[Blanco]

I wonder if he hasn't lost too much of that TT ability by losing that weight. Doesn't feel like we are looking at the same guy as a year ago, but I guess it's unreasonable to expect that. Dude hasn't been in competition for 9 months and it wasn't even clear beforehand if he would even be in decent shape for the Giro. Not sure if finishing the Giro should be important for him tbh, if he still feels fresh I guess he could still see if he can hold on to a top 10 spot or perhaps win the TT. If he's feeling knackered though, perhaps it would be more wise to quit, take some rest and start building for the rest of the season.

Yeah if he doesn't feel alright, then just quit the race, right? And what about those 7 donkeys who bust their asses for him 15 days?!
If he doesn't crack completely, he should ride till the end. Even if he's out of top 10, he can try to go into breakaways, or try to help his teammates somehow, that way he will earn some respect among them, which is lacking right now, it seems...

 

[roundabout]

Imho still it was. GT is always a huge both physical and psychological demand, having a truly debilitating impact on rider's body whether you're under pressure to make a result or not (ofc it's reduced in the latter case, but still very significant). Even if the team didn't expect much from him before the start, knowing Remco's mentality, he certainly had very high expectations for himslef, and I really belive that he was the one who pushed for Giro participation most.

Then choosing Giro as his first start after the injury (what's important, caused by a high speed crash on a descent while his weak bike handling skills were already known before that incident, being nothing strange, considering his late start into cycling) is a direct putting him at enormous risk.

It's obviously great to gain GT experience as soon as possible to evaluate yourself in this kind of effort, realize what needs to be improved etc. But not coming straight after injury (moreover having complications during recovery period), with not enough preparation and still having some crash induced trauma remained in your mind. As I said before, he has plenty of time to learn how to become a GC rider (if he truly wants to be one) ahead of him. I can't see the start in this year's Giro having any positive long-term impact on acheiving this goal in the future. Actually it could be quite the opposite.

From some people's statements I have an impression that Remco is 36 years old Froome, for whom this Giro was the last and only occasion in his carrer to win the GT.

Unless he runs into some physical issues from having to handle a GT for GC at 21 as a first race back from a major injury then I do not see anything negative in getting the learning part started with as soon as possible

 

[Red Rick]

Unless he runs into some physical issues from having to handle a GT for GC at 21 as a first race back from a major injury then I do not see anything negative in getting the learning part started with as soon as possible

Probably yeah. At the same time I'm surprised at any mention of the Vuelta this year.

All in all the problem with going Giro is very often that it eats into your spring calendar and there's not many great options after.

 

[staubsauger]

Popovych was 12th at the 2002 Giro d'Italia in a much weaker field after having an early headstart. If Evenepoel manages to hang onto a top 10 spot I consider that a success, given its his first race of the year and he's mainly in Italy to learn.

His weaknesses have been exposed though. But maybe it's not wrong to have his wings cut a little bit and nurture him from here on to optimize!

 

[Ktarie]

All in all the problem with going Giro is very often that it eats into your spring calendar and there's not many great options after.

It reminds me how much I miss the Amgen Tour of California which last took place during may. It usually offered a nice mix of stages of hill, mountain, sprint and time trial. Pogacar's star rose there. Remco would certainly have liked this stage race too. In addition, the USA flair from natural and cultural landscape. Just those yellow road markings alone (sigh).

 

[limak_]

I assume that DQS has smart people who can assess if he was ready, physically and mentally, to start this Giro.

Yes, actually they've already proved how smart they are, when they let him to train hard with his nounion pelvis while also let him to be on a starvation diet which prolonged the time of his recovery. And the list of their negligence is much longer - Logic actually made a great one, few pages before.
So in this case, please let me doubt in Quickstep's managing skills of Remco as a cyclist as I have every reason to do so.

Unless he runs into some physical issues from having to handle a GT for GC at 21 as a first race back from a major injury then I do not see anything negative in getting the learning part started with as soon as possible

Unless is the key word here. I can't see any reason to even allow for the posibility of running into any issues if it's not necessary at all (as the risk of that is imo much bigger during GT than in other shorter races). And additionaly, as @Blanco wrote, sacrificing other riders' ambitions and possible results (I'm thinking mainly about Almieda here, whose attitude was quite understandable in the end).

 

[Riek s]

Yes, actually they've already proved how smart they are, when they let him to train hard with his nounion pelvis while also let him to be on a starvation diet which prolonged the time of his recovery. And the list of their negligence is much longer - Logic actually made a great one, few pages before.
So in this case, please let me doubt in Quickstep's managing skills of Remco as a cyclist as I have every reason to do so.


Unless is the key word here. I can't see any reason to even allow for the posibility of running into any issues if it's not necessary at all (as the risk of that is imo much bigger during GT than in other shorter races). And additionaly, as @Blanco wrote, sacrificing other riders' ambitions and possible results (I'm thinking mainly about Almieda here, whose attitude was quite understandable in the end).

Almaida only lost a lot of time during the gravel stage, and at that point it was rather expected that he needed to wait. On zoncolan it was probably not useful to let him wait, but also he wouldn't win the stage, so not sure what expectation is here... that he would be 12th in GC instead of 14th? and maybe without the gravel loss he might have been 11th. The guy just lost way to much time in the first mountain stage. Heck, he lost more time on that stage than Evenepoel did in the 2 passed weeks.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Probably yeah. At the same time I'm surprised at any mention of the Vuelta this year.

Prob wouldn't be a bad idea to take him out of the Giro after the queen stage on Monday night and let him race the Vuelta for GC, if he shows a very high level in the races leading up to it. The Vuelta is not that hard of a race in comparison and positioning is less of a thing. It's no Tour or Giro.

Of course, he should have always raced the Vuelta first. Especially post-horror crash. And attempt a hard one-week race first, instead of the joke stage races they made him race last season. The Dauphiné would have been a great choice.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

When the Giro is the Bag, nobody is defensive or serious. When Evenepoel would have won it gets defended at every point.

What gets defended? That people are talking bullsht by claiming he only takes time on the flat? Stuff like that? Sure, that gets defended, because it's not true. Maybe you should look at the Poland stage again, and see how much time he takes on the last climb.

His initial lead, which he builds up on the first climb right after his attack, gets to around 55s. His lead stays around 55s for dozens of km, on the flat. He doesn't extend, chase doesn't get closer.

He extends his lead from 1m5s at 10k from the finish, to 1m15 at 4k from the finish at the foot of the last climb, to 1m48 at the finish, with the last climb in the final part. Fuglsang wasn't trying anymore you say? Yes he was, because he was being chased by Yates and Majka. While Evenepoel was digging up Jakobsen's race number from his pocket showing it to the camera's crossing the line. He took 35-40s on Fuglsang, after a 52k solo, on a 4k climb.

Yet here you are, claiming it as a fact, twice on one page. But why do people get cranky and defensive...hmmm. Let me think now.

 

[Red Rick]

What gets defended? That people are talking bullsht by claiming he only takes time on the flat? Stuff like that? Sure, that gets defended, because it's not true. Maybe you should look at the Poland stage again, and see how much time he takes on the last climb.

His initial lead, which he builds up on the first climb right after his attack, gets to around 55s. His lead stays around 55s for dozens of km, on the flat. He doesn't extend, chase doesn't get closer.

He extends his lead from 1m5s at 10k from the finish, to 1m15 at 4k from the finish at the foot of the last climb, to 1m48 at the finish, with the last climb in the final part. Fuglsang wasn't trying anymore you say? Yes he was, because he was being chased by Yates and Majka. While Evenepoel was digging up Jakobsen's race number from his pocket showing it to the camera's crossing the line. He took 35-40s on Fuglsang, after a 52k solo, on a 4k climb.

Yet here you are, claiming it as a fact, twice on one page. But why do people get cranky and defensive...hmmm. Let me think now.

Case in point

 

[roundabout]

I think 1.75 GTs for GC in 1 year aged 21 after losing a lot of training time is not the best idea., but also it seems that with the Olympics this is the only other hard stage race that Evenepoel can do this year (I imagine he is not doing Suisse)

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Case in point

Indeed, you troll, people get defensive. That's how it works, Einstein.

 

[roundabout]

1 -to -1 roleur battle is the most favorable situation for Evenepoel which is not likely to be replicated in a GC context. It's a very reasonable assessment and definitely not trolling

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

1 -to -1 roleur battle is the most favorable situation for Evenepoel which is not likely to be replicated in a GC context. It's a very reasonable assessment and definitely not trolling

The trolling is LYING about ACTUAL facts that DID happen, while repeatedly claiming it DID NOT happen.

And *** like this:

Think he's quite underwhelming for a guy who implied he'd have crushed the Giro last year.

He implied jack sht. He said he dreamt of being in the wheel of Dennis instead of Hart. Did Hart crush the Giro? No, hence no crushing involved. Did he say he would have? Nope, just that he dreamt/imagined it. Underwhelming? The guy's career could have been over, it's his first GT, his first race in 9 months. And i think it's fair to say that this year's Giro is not last year's Giro.

Him being a mod doesn't exempt him of trolling.

 

[Netserk]

NOBODY puts Bambi in a corner!