Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Big Doopie]

In my opinion, he never should have been taken to the Giro. It was just plain stupid. They put him on a losing position from the beginning. Not only on lack of experience, lack of racing and lack of confidence because of his injury.

agreed 100%.

tho i think behind it is remco's personal ambition and the fact that everything had been so easy in 2020. and he was impatient (shown by how he trained too hard "ignoring" pelvis pain).

i fault lefevre for not just saying no.

i also think that there is a tactical value in having an aura about you. he was developing that in 2020. that is all but gone now.

i have seen it when champions have lost that aura and immediately their opponents attack and lose any fear. i saw it after the dauphine in 1975 with Merckx. i saw it again with lemond in 1991...

someone posted here why not take him to the dauphine this year (maybe after Ruta del Sol) -- high mountains, tough competition. hinault won the dauphine in 1977 -- it was his first tackling of high mountains and he handily beat the podium of the TDF that followed immediately afterwards. it ushered in the years that followed...

what the F was the rush!?

 

[SHAD0W93]

I think it is very unfair to Remco. In my opinion, he never should have been taken to the Giro. It was just plain stupid. They put him on a losing position from the beginning. Not only on lack of experience, lack of racing and lack of confidence because of his injury. Lefevre just does not have experience with how to manage GC potential. Now that he is here they should take the pressure off and let him finish. Let Almeida do his race. The kid will learn how to fight and will come back stronger.

Or take him for the experience and go for stages.

 

[Rackham]

agreed 100%.

tho i think behind it is remco's personal ambition and the fact that everything had been so easy in 2020. and he was impatient (shown by how he trained too hard "ignoring" pelvis pain).

i fault lefevre for not just saying no.

i also think that there is a tactical value in having an aura about you. he was developing that in 2020. that is all but gone now.

i have seen it when champions have lost that aura and immediately their opponents attack and lose any fear. i saw it after the dauphine in 1975 with Merckx. i saw it again with lemond in 1991...

someone posted here why not take him to the dauphine this year (maybe after Ruta del Sol) -- high mountains, tough competition. hinault won the dauphine in 1977 -- it was his first tackling of high mountains and he handily beat the podium of the TDF that followed immediately afterwards. it ushered in the years that followed...

what the F was the rush!?

The "aura" factor is a good point, i.e. champions build that over seasons & it can work to their advantage (especially when they have a good poker face as well).

But the part about sending Evenepoel to the Giro this year being a "mistake" (so far, because can you imagine if he retakes time this week against all odds & then smashes the TT? It would be a nuclear meltdown of massive proportions, although on his form trajectory it's highly unlikely), I say it's also a big mistake because based on his performance in the first week (the climbs as well), he could have aimed for a podium (or win) in June's one week races. Hell, send him to the Tour of Hungary first, then to the Dauphiné or Tour of Switzerland. He could have won something.

Now he's coming out of a three week GT & he's physically toast for a bit. The competition in the GT's this year is just "too much" for a fairy-tale scenario. Even the Vuelta 2021 is out of reach IMO (with its explosive steep short climbs & apparently Pogacar is slated to do it this year).

 

[Volderke]

It's not a mistake to send him to the Giro. The mistake is by the press and his fans, expecting way too much.
I too was wondering what he could achieve, but I have been cautious and my comments were either that we'll have to wait and see, or that he will crush them all (in joking mode).
Remco has built up the status that it's all or nothing, the way he races, and most (all) of the times, it's 'all' and the 'nothing', or 'somewhere in the top 10' are terms we don't associate with Remco (anymore).

Yes he lacks (massively!) in bike handling, and with his recovery trajectory, riding this big a race against a very strong Ineos team with a reborn Bernal, Remco is fighting (literally) an uphill battle.
But everything he does here, is something that he can learn from.

He is learning how to go downhill in the wet in a race (many learning opportunities here in this Giro), he is learning how to tackle +2000m superhard climbs, something he won't face as much in e.g. Tour and Vuelta.
He learns how to race a 3-week GT for the GC. He learns how a 3-week GT is much more exhausting than a short stage race, not only physically, but also mentally (everyday another hotel, another press conference,...
And most of all: he learns how to deal with pressure and disappointment. The pressure was put upon him by the press, fans and maybe most, by himself. So he can learn how to manage all of this.

Sending him to the Giro was not a mistake, if only you look at the lessons learned and the advantages of racing a first GT, but please don't evaluate it with regards to the (unrealistic) expectations many had.

 

[frisenfruitig]

It's not a mistake to send him to the Giro. The mistake is by the press and his fans, expecting way too much.
I too was wondering what he could achieve, but I have been cautious and my comments were either that we'll have to wait and see, or that he will crush them all (in joking mode).
Remco has built up the status that it's all or nothing, the way he races, and most (all) of the times, it's 'all' and the 'nothing', or 'somewhere in the top 10' are terms we don't associate with Remco (anymore).

Yes he lacks (massively!) in bike handling, and with his recovery trajectory, riding this big a race against a very strong Ineos team with a reborn Bernal, Remco is fighting (literally) an uphill battle.
But everything he does here, is something that he can learn from.

He is learning how to go downhill in the wet in a race (many learning opportunities here in this Giro), he is learning how to tackle +2000m superhard climbs, something he won't face as much in e.g. Tour and Vuelta.
He learns how to race a 3-week GT for the GC. He learns how a 3-week GT is much more exhausting than a short stage race, not only physically, but also mentally (everyday another hotel, another press conference,...
And most of all: he learns how to deal with pressure and disappointment. The pressure was put upon him by the press, fans and maybe most, by himself. So he can learn how to manage all of this.

Sending him to the Giro was not a mistake, if only you look at the lessons learned and the advantages of racing a first GT, but please don't evaluate it with regards to the (unrealistic) expectations many had.

I'm not sure if it was a mistake or not. Was it really the best idea to have the Giro be his first race after such a long time? Why not some easy shorter stage races to get used to riding in the peloton again and ride the Vuelta at the end of the year for example? Seems like a big gamble trying to get in shape right on time for the Giro, I don't understand the big rush?

I'm not a scientist/doctor or anything so I have no idea if riding a GT right away would be something that would make him stronger rather than do harm.

 

[Volderke]

I guess if it doesn't kill him, it can only make him stronger. I also guess Remco himself was really hungry and pushy for riding the Giro.
But I agree it isn't necessarily wise. We will only find out later in the year / his career (hindsight...).

 

[limak_]

It's not a mistake to send him to the Giro. The mistake is by the press and his fans, expecting way too much.
I too was wondering what he could achieve, but I have been cautious and my comments were either that we'll have to wait and see, or that he will crush them all (in joking mode).
Remco has built up the status that it's all or nothing, the way he races, and most (all) of the times, it's 'all' and the 'nothing', or 'somewhere in the top 10' are terms we don't associate with Remco (anymore).

It was a mistake to send him to the Giro. Why? I think you've partially answered this question in your post.

Sending Remco (having "all or nothing status") to this year's Giro ==> Irrelevant expectations from the press and fans

Very simple and obvious implication. In a situation where there's so much hype around the athlete (and it's totally justified), when it seems that he has almost no weaknesses and when in the last season he's won every competition that he took part in, the only reaction that you can expect from the media and fans (not all of them), before this athlete's next performance, is creating sky-high expectations and overhyping. It's just how it works and why it would be supposed to be different with Evenepoel? They don't care about the injury, lack of racing etc.

Then if such reaction is predictable why to provoke it?

Also, it's not media nor fans who decided that he was the team leader, right? If yout give a leader's status to a rider, you automatically put high pressure and expectations on him yourself. It seems also very irrational if they actually wanted to use this Giro only for learning purposes.

 

[dastott]

Must be breathing a massive sigh of relief today's stage has been shortened.

 

[Fantastico]

Very simple and obvious implication. In a situation where there's so much hype around the athlete (and it's totally justified), when it seems that he has almost no weaknesses and when in the last season he's won every competition that he took part in, the only reaction that you can expect from the media and fans (not all of them), before this athlete's next performance, is creating sky-high expectations and overhyping. It's just how it works and why it would be supposed to be different with Evenepoel? They don't care about the injury, lack of racing etc.

The same would be true for the Giro next year. So when should he ride his first GT when expectations are way too high anyway? Actually, from this perspective, this year after the injury is a better option then later, since later on (after probably winning some more races), expectations would be even higher. This year everyone knows that it's his first race after a long time and that he might suffer from a lack of race kilometers.

With respect to his weaknesses, his fans are somehow contradicting themselves. On the one hand, he's not really punchy, he's not the best at really steep climbs, it was all clear that he's not the best in technical descents or sterrato... On the other hand, he "has almost no weaknesses".

He also had never raced a GT or high-altitude and alpine multi-climb stages before. So I don't think that the hype is totally justified. Maybe the hype around him being (one of) the most talented bike racer(s) in a long time, but not the hype around him contesting the win in a GT.

 

[limak_]

The same would be true for the Giro next year. So when should he ride his first GT when expectations are way too high anyway?

The problem here isn't expectations being too high in general. It's being too high considering his preparation (lack of it) towards this race and the media not really taking this into account even though "everyone knows" that.

You're right, next year the expectations will be even higher (assuming everything will be ok with him until then). But simultaneously Remco will (hopefully) be a stronger rider, well prepared to race a GT, so those expectations will be more reasonable then and also Remco will definitely be much more capable of meeting this expectations.
(For instance I can see Remco winning last year's Giro as a very very likely scenario - no overhype here imo.)

With respect to his weaknesses, his fans are somehow contradicting themselves. On the one hand, he's not really punchy, he's not the best at really steep climbs, it was all clear that he's not the best in technical descents or sterrato... On the other hand, he "has almost no weaknesses".

That's why I wrote "seems that he has almost no weaknesses". Also the complete lack of preaparation surely made his weaknesses more visible and significant. Had he had the opportunity to have a regular pre-season preaparation (with a GT as his biggest goal) he would've definitely put a lot of effort to improve his explosiveness, ascending steep climbs ability and even maybe bike-handling. And considering his young age, he could've been quite succesfull in improving those.

So I don't think that the hype is totally justified. Maybe the hype around him being (one of) the most talented bike racer(s) in a long time, but not the hype around him contesting the win in a GT.

Speaking about a justified hype, I actually meant a general hype around him, just like you said.

 

[Valanga]

The problem here isn't expectations being too high in general. It's being too high considering his preparation (lack of it) towards this race and the media not really taking this into account even though "everyone knows" that.

You're right, next year the expectations will be even higher (assuming everything will be ok with him until then). But simultaneously Remco will (hopefully) be a stronger rider, well prepared to race a GT, so those expectations will be more reasonable then and also Remco will definitely be much more capable of meeting this expectations.
(For instance I can see Remco winning last year's Giro as a very very likely scenario - no overhype here imo.)

On the other hand, he has the perfect "excuse" now. Nobody will consider this a bad result in the end, ruling him out of contention for any future GT. They all learned a lot, without any real pressure of having to perform. Yes there was hype, but in the end no harm done.

 

[limak_]

On the other hand, he has the perfect "excuse" now. Nobody will consider this a bad result in the end, ruling him out of contention for any future GT. They all learned a lot, without any real pressure of having to perform. Yes there was hype, but in the end no harm done.

As much as I agree with this point, again considering Remco's preparation towards this race, we still don't have a clear image of him as a GC contender, as nobody knows to what extent his pereformance is being affected by lack of preparation, injury etc or to what extent these are his real, natural limitations and predisposition. Then I'm very sceptic about this Giro being a valuable and helpful information in terms of the preparation to his future GTs.

That's why I really can't see this Giro having any positive long-term impact in terms of future goals. Be patient, do some smaller races at the beginning, then if the feeling is good, think of Vuelta. That would be my approach.

But who knows, maybe I'm just exaggerating all of this and it'll hopefully turn out to be the right path for Remco (can't wish him anything else), but for me the harm done is also all that shitstorm and confusion arised around this Remco's Giro participation (thinking also about Almeida and leadership conflicts).

 

[frisenfruitig]

Seems like he is completely spent, I would be surprised if he doesn't quit after today

 

[Big Doopie]

DQS total giro fail. Pure arrogance. Let’s hope they learn some lessons.

 

[Big Doopie]

(wrong thread)

 

[Riek s]

Seems like he is completely spent, I would be surprised if he doesn't quit after today

Either spend or completely frozen by the cold. He should just stop if it is either of these. best to recuperate and start training again asap instead of further blowing up.

Unless he dropped because he is already doing that and he just want to ride a tempo in orange zone instead of the red... but seems hard to believe.

Guessing a DNF or DNS after rest day

 

[Big Doopie]

(wrong thread)

 

[Lefebre]

Ma Boy, so proud of you.
Next year you will be able to win the 3 GTs

 

[SafeBet]

Yeah now I wouldn't argue against pulling him.

 

[roundabout]

Yeah, he is probably not winning the TT even if he gruppettos the remaining stages, so there is nothing to ride for. He probably won't be able to help Almeida as well in the current form.

 

[Panda Claws]

Not the result I expected this Giro but that's okay. Plenty of time to grow. Let's start with a serious one week race next year (PN, TA, Catalunya, PV, Suisse, Dauphiné, Romandië)

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Remco showing his true colours as a Belgian Simon Spilak today, quickstep should have sent him to baloise belgium tour or tour de suisse

 

[Riek s]

Better recup for a week and start training volume again, to get his condition back.

In hindsight, being 30minutes behind in this race seems appropriate if you only raced 3months. Everything he did in the 1st week was probably going into the red to often when his body is not used/trained enough to handle that on consecutive days. But yeah easy to say after than during.
Hopefully it won't take long before he is back his old self before the crash so he can focus on improving where he left of. (hard to compare to other riders his age since he lost 9months on his 4 year old carrier).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Remco showing his true colours as a Belgian Simon Spilak today, quickstep should have sent him to baloise belgium tour or tour de suisse

I think it's you who's showing his true colors.

 

[pvieira91]

I think it's you who's showing his true colors.

What happened today? Was it due to bad technique??