Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[memyselfandI]

What are you trying to say?

That he needs to take long route.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

If Alaphilippe and Cavendish for green work in the same Tour, there should not be a problem with Evenepoel and Alaphilippe in the Tour - unless Evenepoel plans to contend the same stages as a stage hunter.

This is what I was alluding to.

Alaphilippe has won Tour stages that fit Remco's profile, too. I would certainly welcome it if both of them were selected for the 2022 Tour. Both in peak form. Would be entertaining, I'd imagine.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Oh yes he has.., but not quite like Remco though.

Didn't Ala DNS that race in Argentina with "stomach issues" or whatever when Remco was about to destroy him in the ITT?

 

[BlueRoads]

It doesn't make any sense, in my opinion, to risk Alaphilippe's chances in one day races or on stages, by playing an "additional" Evenepoel card. Alaphilippe's best chances and most of his successes have come from the team really working for him and him being aggressive. The "he can sit behind" is nice in theory, but I can't remember that having worked out so far; either then his teammate wins or his teammate stays in front and gets outsprinted - with someone who's not a great sprinter ahead the chance that the team comes away with nothing is pretty big, while they have a pretty good chance when they bring Ala well and fresh not too far from the finish. You can try and mix this pattern up now and then, but for me it doesn't make any sense to just go "well, both are going to try on each of these stages, and whoever wins, wins".

For me Evenepoel is now, more than ever, a stage racer. I know, San Sebastian, I'm not saying he cannot have success in one day races, but he seems clearly made for stage races. I feel people think he should do one day races rather than GTs because they somehow think that one day races are the lesser races and he's not (yet) up to GTs, but I don't see it that way at all. His abilities, for me, point to stage races, and I think the team should see what he can do in some races that are contended by the best, like I said, UAE, Catalunya, such, and let him do the Giro again, fresh and healthy this time. Then you will see what his abilities are. He hasn't done any serious mountain stages by now in really best form, so before it's clear that he's really not up to those, so what's the use of making him contest one day races and stages predominantly now?

I don't know how well they get along in private, but in races it should be possible to have a great calendar for both of them, especially with Almeida leaving and no other big name coming in - there are Honoré, Bagioli and Masnada with a remotely similar profile, but they should still be behind in the pecking order, and even with these five you have enough races on the calendar to distribute, especially since there will always be someone ill or injured. It makes sense to not have Evenepoel and Alaphilippe do too many races together, in my opinion.

 

[Netserk]

It doesn't make any sense, in my opinion, to risk Alaphilippe's chances in one day races or on stages, by playing an "additional" Evenepoel card. Alaphilippe's best chances and most of his successes have come from the team really working from him and him being aggressive. The "he can sit behind" is nice in theory, but I can't remember that having worked out so far; either then his teammate wins or his teammate stays in front and gets outsprinted - with someone who's not a great sprinter ahead the chance that the team comes away with nothing is pretty big, while they have a pretty good chance when they bring Ala well and fresh not too far from the finish. You can try and mix this pattern up now and then, but for me it doesn't make any sense to just go "well, both are going to try on each of these stages, and whoever wins, wins".

For me Evenepoel is now, more than ever, a stage racer. I know, San Sebastian, I'm not saying he cannot have success in one day races, but he seems clearly made for stage races. I feel people think he should do one day races rather than GTs because they somehow think that one day races are the lesser races and he's not (yet) up to GTs, but I don't see it that way at all. His abilities, for me, point to stage races, and I think the team should see what he can do in some races that are contended by the best, like I said, UAE, Catalunya, such, and let him do the Giro again, fresh and healthy this time. Then you will see what his abilities are. He hasn't done any serious mountain stages by now in really best form, so before it's clear that he's really not up to those, so what's the use of making him contest one day races and stages predominantly now?

I don't know how well they get along in private, but in races it should be possible to have a great calendar for both of them, especially with Almeida leaving and no other big name coming in - there are Honoré, Bagioli and Masnada with a remotely similar profile, but they should still be behind in the pecking order, and even for with these five you have enough races on the calendar to distribute, especially since there will always be someone ill or injured. It makes sense to not have Evenepoel and Alaphilippe do too many races together, in my opinion.

Jungels in Liège.

 

[BlueRoads]

Jungels in Liège.

Yep, in that case it worked out for the teammate and therefor for the team, but not for Alaphilippe himself. What I meant is when people talk about "he just needs to sit behind and can take advantage of that" - I can't remember such a case, although certainly one may exist... but at least in a big race I should be able to remember.

 

[greyclouds]

It doesn't make any sense, in my opinion, to risk Alaphilippe's chances in one day races or on stages, by playing an "additional" Evenepoel card. Alaphilippe's best chances and most of his successes have come from the team really working from him and him being aggressive. The "he can sit behind" is nice in theory, but I can't remember that having worked out so far; either then his teammate wins or his teammate stays in front and gets outsprinted - with someone who's not a great sprinter ahead the chance that the team comes away with nothing is pretty big, while they have a pretty good chance when they bring Ala well and fresh not too far from the finish. You can try and mix this pattern up now and then, but for me it doesn't make any sense to just go "well, both are going to try on each of these stages, and whoever wins, wins".

For me Evenepoel is now, more than ever, a stage racer. I know, San Sebastian, I'm not saying he cannot have success in one day races, but he seems clearly made for stage races. I feel people think he should do one day races rather than GTs because they somehow think that one day races are the lesser races and he's not (yet) up to GTs, but I don't see it that way at all. His abilities, for me, point to stage races, and I think the team should see what he can do in some races that are contended by the best, like I said, UAE, Catalunya, such, and let him do the Giro again, fresh and healthy this time. Then you will see what his abilities are. He hasn't done any serious mountain stages by now in really best form, so before it's clear that he's really not up to those, so what's the use of making him contest one day races and stages predominantly now?

I don't know how well they get along in private, but in races it should be possible to have a great calendar for both of them, especially with Almeida leaving and no other big name coming in - there are Honoré, Bagioli and Masnada with a remotely similar profile, but they should still be behind in the pecking order, and even for with these five you have enough races on the calendar to distribute, especially since there will always be someone ill or injured. It makes sense to not have Evenepoel and Alaphilippe do too many races together, in my opinion.

Unfortunately Remco lost a big opportunity this year to go to this first GT without any pressure. I wouldn't have sent to the Giro, but if he decided to go, then send him without any pressure of the GC race. Certainly the whole leader/co-leader thing didn't help at all. Even after Almeida lost time in the first week, they should have kept Remco with a low profile - even if he was high up in the GC. The most important thing would have been to finish his first GT, tried his legs in a 3 week race against WT level, hard mountains day after day. Probably try one or two stage wins, but without the pressure of the GC, so let him loose half an hour in one day if needed. If his GC standing was great at the third week, then maybe think about the best he can do.

(that whole leader discussion also didn't help Almeida's chances of staying in the team, even if he wasn't going to stay anyways, and I think it would have been good for DQS to have him around - there's 3 GTs per year, you can easily do Ala/Remco/Almeida, and tag along sprinters where you want; Almeida is also not really cut for the long one day races, and he is a great team player - I know, sterratto stage yada yada, but that was a one off - and he could certainly be a lux domestique for key hilly one day races for Ala or Remco)

Back to Remco this year - he is very very young. I probably agree with you, I think he will be formidable at stage races more and more, because I can see developing more his climbing and recovery skills, rather than his sprint or punchy skills. Take him to lots of WT stage races, including the Giro, but without any pressure. Let him grow at his own pace. Is he finishes the next season with a top-10 in the Giro, a couple of stage wins in key WT races, perhaps an important WT stage race GC, on top of the hilly/rolleur stuff we know that he will always contest, that would be a great season for a 22 year old.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Any expert Strava interpreters here?

Checking his Lombardia file, on the final climb, the part he got dropped halfway until the summit (4.95km @7.3%), he lost 1m15s to Masnada (group behind Pog). On the main part of the descent (10.42km), he lost 44 seconds on Masnada, which i think is roughly the same tempo the group with Alaphilippe, Vingegaard, Bardet & Roglic did?

I can only see the first 10 riders, i think i need a paid subscription to see more or something. Ironically, the part of the climb where he got dropped, is still the 10th best overall Strava effort on that section. Also interesting, is that he pushed slightly bigger Watts than Mike Woods, who did that part over a minute faster. This kind of adds to the speculation that his weight must have been well above his Giro weight.

 

[Volderke]

Remco is a bear.
Bears get fat to prepare for the winter.
Ulrich was a bear, too.
Remco is the new Ullrich.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Remco is a bear.
Bears get fat to prepare for the winter.
Ulrich was a bear, too.
Remco is the new Ullrich.

Jan lived in a harsh climate though. His winter lasted 9 months per year.

 

[Red Rick]

Any expert Strava interpreters here?

Checking his Lombardia file, on the final climb, the part he got dropped halfway until the summit (4.95km @7.3%), he lost 1m15s to Masnada (group behind Pog). On the main part of the descent (10.42km), he lost 44 seconds on Masnada, which i think is roughly the same tempo the group with Alaphilippe, Vingegaard, Bardet & Roglic did?

I can only see the first 10 riders, i think i need a paid subscription to see more or something. Ironically, the part of the climb where he got dropped, is still the 10th best overall Strava effort on that section. Also interesting, is that he pushed slightly bigger Watts than Mike Woods, who did that part over a minute faster. This kind of adds to the speculation that his weight must have been well above his Giro weight.

I think that when Masnada dropped the Alaphilippe group the gap wasn't quite 44 seconds? But I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't lose much time to Vingegaard. I think the worst of his descending issues are past tbh.

 

[brrrrrr]

Any expert Strava interpreters here?

Checking his Lombardia file, on the final climb, the part he got dropped halfway until the summit (4.95km @7.3%), he lost 1m15s to Masnada (group behind Pog). On the main part of the descent (10.42km), he lost 44 seconds on Masnada, which i think is roughly the same tempo the group with Alaphilippe, Vingegaard, Bardet & Roglic did?

I can only see the first 10 riders, i think i need a paid subscription to see more or something. Ironically, the part of the climb where he got dropped, is still the 10th best overall Strava effort on that section. Also interesting, is that he pushed slightly bigger Watts than Mike Woods, who did that part over a minute faster. This kind of adds to the speculation that his weight must have been well above his Giro weight.

Really good Point.. i looked at it when he uploaded and thought the same thing, or his powermeter is overrreading which i doubt, but with the numbers in that race he should have been right up there if he would be at around 62kg

 

[Mayomaniac]

Any expert Strava interpreters here?

Checking his Lombardia file, on the final climb, the part he got dropped halfway until the summit (4.95km @7.3%), he lost 1m15s to Masnada (group behind Pog). On the main part of the descent (10.42km), he lost 44 seconds on Masnada, which i think is roughly the same tempo the group with Alaphilippe, Vingegaard, Bardet & Roglic did?

I can only see the first 10 riders, i think i need a paid subscription to see more or something. Ironically, the part of the climb where he got dropped, is still the 10th best overall Strava effort on that section. Also interesting, is that he pushed slightly bigger Watts than Mike Woods, who did that part over a minute faster. This kind of adds to the speculation that his weight must have been well above his Giro weight.

Woods is one of those guys that has to be a lot lighter than his listed weight, otherwise his w/kg make little sense compared to guys who climb at a similar speed.
Edit: apparently Woods is around 60kg and not 64 (like usually listed) when in racing shape.

 

[Red Rick]

Woods is one of those guys that has to be a lot lighter than his listed weight, otherwise his w/kg make little sense compared to guys who climb at a similar speed.
Edit: apparently Woods is around 60kg and not 64 (like usually listed) when in racing shape.

Well yeah the implication would be that if Woods were 64 then Evenepoel would end around 68 which he obviously isn't.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think that when Masnada dropped the Alaphilippe group the gap wasn't quite 44 seconds? But I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't lose much time to Vingegaard. I think the worst of his descending issues are past tbh.

It doesn't matter how big the gap was with Pogacar when Masnada left, lol. It matters what the gap was when Masnada reached the valley with Pogacar.

His descending wasn't really that bad before his crash to begin with, but i think especially when wet etc he must have felt really uncomfortable. Not sure if much changed yet tbh.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It doesn't matter how big the gap was with Pogacar when Masnada left, lol. It matters what the gap was when Masnada reached the valley with Pogacar.

His descending wasn't really that bad before his crash to begin with, but i think especially when wet etc he must have felt really uncomfortable. Not sure if much changed yet tbh.

I rememeber Pog & Masnada had about 45 seconds on the chasing group after the descent, which implies a similar descending tempo of Remco and the group.

 

[GuntherL1]

He should get Tom Boonen as his manager.
Boonen was in a somewhat similar position early in his career and he made some really sensible comments in the HLN sportcast about how REv should spend the winter.
With all that Pizzahut money coming in, his salary shouldn't pose a problem.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Is everyone feeling okay? It's been almost 36 hours without a post.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Is everyone feeling okay? It's been almost 36 hours without a post.

Still 3 days until the inevitable either "meaningless, Küng and Ganna weren't really trying" or... "lol, can't even beat Küng and Ganna who weren't even trying".
The suspense is killing everybody.

 

[kingjr]

Still 3 days until the inevitable either "meaningless, Küng and Ganna weren't really trying" or... "lol, can't even beat Küng and Ganna who weren't even trying".
The suspense is killing everybody.

Ganna is not riding, due to cracked rib.,

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448598403777245184

View: https://twitter.com/ChronoNations/status/1448598403777245184

 

[Red Rick]

Ganna is not riding, due to cracked rib.,

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448598403777245184

View: https://twitter.com/ChronoNations/status/1448598403777245184

See, can't beat Ganna when he's not even trying

 

[Big Doopie]

any link to the route?

i came on here to see if it might be hilly enough for him to even challenge ganna.

only to find ganna a no show... :-(

can't find any info on the course...(?)

 

[Sciatic]

any link to the route?

i came on here to see if it might be hilly enough for him to even challenge ganna.

only to find ganna a no show... :-(

can't find any info on the course...(?)

Everyone has gone into hibernation already . . .

 

[Bonimenier]

any link to the route?

i came on here to see if it might be hilly enough for him to even challenge ganna.

only to find ganna a no show... :-(

can't find any info on the course...(?)

It's flat

 

[Andre]

...still here...Go Remco Go!!!