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Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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18-Valve. (pithy)

May 4, 2011
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BlueRoads said:
If Alaphilippe and Cavendish for green work in the same Tour, there should not be a problem with Evenepoel and Alaphilippe in the Tour - unless Evenepoel plans to contend the same stages as a stage hunter.
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This is what I was alluding to.

Alaphilippe has won Tour stages that fit Remco's profile, too. I would certainly welcome it if both of them were selected for the 2022 Tour. Both in peak form. Would be entertaining, I'd imagine.
 
BlueRoads

BlueRoads

Jan 4, 2020
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It doesn't make any sense, in my opinion, to risk Alaphilippe's chances in one day races or on stages, by playing an "additional" Evenepoel card. Alaphilippe's best chances and most of his successes have come from the team really working for him and him being aggressive. The "he can sit behind" is nice in theory, but I can't remember that having worked out so far; either then his teammate wins or his teammate stays in front and gets outsprinted - with someone who's not a great sprinter ahead the chance that the team comes away with nothing is pretty big, while they have a pretty good chance when they bring Ala well and fresh not too far from the finish. You can try and mix this pattern up now and then, but for me it doesn't make any sense to just go "well, both are going to try on each of these stages, and whoever wins, wins".

For me Evenepoel is now, more than ever, a stage racer. I know, San Sebastian, I'm not saying he cannot have success in one day races, but he seems clearly made for stage races. I feel people think he should do one day races rather than GTs because they somehow think that one day races are the lesser races and he's not (yet) up to GTs, but I don't see it that way at all. His abilities, for me, point to stage races, and I think the team should see what he can do in some races that are contended by the best, like I said, UAE, Catalunya, such, and let him do the Giro again, fresh and healthy this time. Then you will see what his abilities are. He hasn't done any serious mountain stages by now in really best form, so before it's clear that he's really not up to those, so what's the use of making him contest one day races and stages predominantly now?

I don't know how well they get along in private, but in races it should be possible to have a great calendar for both of them, especially with Almeida leaving and no other big name coming in - there are Honoré, Bagioli and Masnada with a remotely similar profile, but they should still be behind in the pecking order, and even with these five you have enough races on the calendar to distribute, especially since there will always be someone ill or injured. It makes sense to not have Evenepoel and Alaphilippe do too many races together, in my opinion.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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BlueRoads said:
It doesn't make any sense, in my opinion, to risk Alaphilippe's chances in one day races or on stages, by playing an "additional" Evenepoel card. Alaphilippe's best chances and most of his successes have come from the team really working from him and him being aggressive. The "he can sit behind" is nice in theory, but I can't remember that having worked out so far; either then his teammate wins or his teammate stays in front and gets outsprinted - with someone who's not a great sprinter ahead the chance that the team comes away with nothing is pretty big, while they have a pretty good chance when they bring Ala well and fresh not too far from the finish. You can try and mix this pattern up now and then, but for me it doesn't make any sense to just go "well, both are going to try on each of these stages, and whoever wins, wins".

For me Evenepoel is now, more than ever, a stage racer. I know, San Sebastian, I'm not saying he cannot have success in one day races, but he seems clearly made for stage races. I feel people think he should do one day races rather than GTs because they somehow think that one day races are the lesser races and he's not (yet) up to GTs, but I don't see it that way at all. His abilities, for me, point to stage races, and I think the team should see what he can do in some races that are contended by the best, like I said, UAE, Catalunya, such, and let him do the Giro again, fresh and healthy this time. Then you will see what his abilities are. He hasn't done any serious mountain stages by now in really best form, so before it's clear that he's really not up to those, so what's the use of making him contest one day races and stages predominantly now?

I don't know how well they get along in private, but in races it should be possible to have a great calendar for both of them, especially with Almeida leaving and no other big name coming in - there are Honoré, Bagioli and Masnada with a remotely similar profile, but they should still be behind in the pecking order, and even for with these five you have enough races on the calendar to distribute, especially since there will always be someone ill or injured. It makes sense to not have Evenepoel and Alaphilippe do too many races together, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Jungels in Liège.
 
G

greyclouds

Sep 8, 2021
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BlueRoads said:
It doesn't make any sense, in my opinion, to risk Alaphilippe's chances in one day races or on stages, by playing an "additional" Evenepoel card. Alaphilippe's best chances and most of his successes have come from the team really working from him and him being aggressive. The "he can sit behind" is nice in theory, but I can't remember that having worked out so far; either then his teammate wins or his teammate stays in front and gets outsprinted - with someone who's not a great sprinter ahead the chance that the team comes away with nothing is pretty big, while they have a pretty good chance when they bring Ala well and fresh not too far from the finish. You can try and mix this pattern up now and then, but for me it doesn't make any sense to just go "well, both are going to try on each of these stages, and whoever wins, wins".

For me Evenepoel is now, more than ever, a stage racer. I know, San Sebastian, I'm not saying he cannot have success in one day races, but he seems clearly made for stage races. I feel people think he should do one day races rather than GTs because they somehow think that one day races are the lesser races and he's not (yet) up to GTs, but I don't see it that way at all. His abilities, for me, point to stage races, and I think the team should see what he can do in some races that are contended by the best, like I said, UAE, Catalunya, such, and let him do the Giro again, fresh and healthy this time. Then you will see what his abilities are. He hasn't done any serious mountain stages by now in really best form, so before it's clear that he's really not up to those, so what's the use of making him contest one day races and stages predominantly now?

I don't know how well they get along in private, but in races it should be possible to have a great calendar for both of them, especially with Almeida leaving and no other big name coming in - there are Honoré, Bagioli and Masnada with a remotely similar profile, but they should still be behind in the pecking order, and even for with these five you have enough races on the calendar to distribute, especially since there will always be someone ill or injured. It makes sense to not have Evenepoel and Alaphilippe do too many races together, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately Remco lost a big opportunity this year to go to this first GT without any pressure. I wouldn't have sent to the Giro, but if he decided to go, then send him without any pressure of the GC race. Certainly the whole leader/co-leader thing didn't help at all. Even after Almeida lost time in the first week, they should have kept Remco with a low profile - even if he was high up in the GC. The most important thing would have been to finish his first GT, tried his legs in a 3 week race against WT level, hard mountains day after day. Probably try one or two stage wins, but without the pressure of the GC, so let him loose half an hour in one day if needed. If his GC standing was great at the third week, then maybe think about the best he can do.

(that whole leader discussion also didn't help Almeida's chances of staying in the team, even if he wasn't going to stay anyways, and I think it would have been good for DQS to have him around - there's 3 GTs per year, you can easily do Ala/Remco/Almeida, and tag along sprinters where you want; Almeida is also not really cut for the long one day races, and he is a great team player - I know, sterratto stage yada yada, but that was a one off - and he could certainly be a lux domestique for key hilly one day races for Ala or Remco)

Back to Remco this year - he is very very young. I probably agree with you, I think he will be formidable at stage races more and more, because I can see developing more his climbing and recovery skills, rather than his sprint or punchy skills. Take him to lots of WT stage races, including the Giro, but without any pressure. Let him grow at his own pace. Is he finishes the next season with a top-10 in the Giro, a couple of stage wins in key WT races, perhaps an important WT stage race GC, on top of the hilly/rolleur stuff we know that he will always contest, that would be a great season for a 22 year old.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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Any expert Strava interpreters here?

Checking his Lombardia file, on the final climb, the part he got dropped halfway until the summit (4.95km @7.3%), he lost 1m15s to Masnada (group behind Pog). On the main part of the descent (10.42km), he lost 44 seconds on Masnada, which i think is roughly the same tempo the group with Alaphilippe, Vingegaard, Bardet & Roglic did?

I can only see the first 10 riders, i think i need a paid subscription to see more or something. Ironically, the part of the climb where he got dropped, is still the 10th best overall Strava effort on that section. Also interesting, is that he pushed slightly bigger Watts than Mike Woods, who did that part over a minute faster. This kind of adds to the speculation that his weight must have been well above his Giro weight.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Any expert Strava interpreters here?

Checking his Lombardia file, on the final climb, the part he got dropped halfway until the summit (4.95km @7.3%), he lost 1m15s to Masnada (group behind Pog). On the main part of the descent (10.42km), he lost 44 seconds on Masnada, which i think is roughly the same tempo the group with Alaphilippe, Vingegaard, Bardet & Roglic did?

I can only see the first 10 riders, i think i need a paid subscription to see more or something. Ironically, the part of the climb where he got dropped, is still the 10th best overall Strava effort on that section. Also interesting, is that he pushed slightly bigger Watts than Mike Woods, who did that part over a minute faster. This kind of adds to the speculation that his weight must have been well above his Giro weight.
Click to expand...
I think that when Masnada dropped the Alaphilippe group the gap wasn't quite 44 seconds? But I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't lose much time to Vingegaard. I think the worst of his descending issues are past tbh.
 
B

brrrrrr

May 8, 2021
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Any expert Strava interpreters here?

Checking his Lombardia file, on the final climb, the part he got dropped halfway until the summit (4.95km @7.3%), he lost 1m15s to Masnada (group behind Pog). On the main part of the descent (10.42km), he lost 44 seconds on Masnada, which i think is roughly the same tempo the group with Alaphilippe, Vingegaard, Bardet & Roglic did?

I can only see the first 10 riders, i think i need a paid subscription to see more or something. Ironically, the part of the climb where he got dropped, is still the 10th best overall Strava effort on that section. Also interesting, is that he pushed slightly bigger Watts than Mike Woods, who did that part over a minute faster. This kind of adds to the speculation that his weight must have been well above his Giro weight.
Click to expand...

Really good Point.. i looked at it when he uploaded and thought the same thing, or his powermeter is overrreading which i doubt, but with the numbers in that race he should have been right up there if he would be at around 62kg
 
Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Any expert Strava interpreters here?

Checking his Lombardia file, on the final climb, the part he got dropped halfway until the summit (4.95km @7.3%), he lost 1m15s to Masnada (group behind Pog). On the main part of the descent (10.42km), he lost 44 seconds on Masnada, which i think is roughly the same tempo the group with Alaphilippe, Vingegaard, Bardet & Roglic did?

I can only see the first 10 riders, i think i need a paid subscription to see more or something. Ironically, the part of the climb where he got dropped, is still the 10th best overall Strava effort on that section. Also interesting, is that he pushed slightly bigger Watts than Mike Woods, who did that part over a minute faster. This kind of adds to the speculation that his weight must have been well above his Giro weight.
Click to expand...
Woods is one of those guys that has to be a lot lighter than his listed weight, otherwise his w/kg make little sense compared to guys who climb at a similar speed.
Edit: apparently Woods is around 60kg and not 64 (like usually listed) when in racing shape.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

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Mayomaniac said:
Woods is one of those guys that has to be a lot lighter than his listed weight, otherwise his w/kg make little sense compared to guys who climb at a similar speed.
Edit: apparently Woods is around 60kg and not 64 (like usually listed) when in racing shape.
Click to expand...
Well yeah the implication would be that if Woods were 64 then Evenepoel would end around 68 which he obviously isn't.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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Red Rick said:
I think that when Masnada dropped the Alaphilippe group the gap wasn't quite 44 seconds? But I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't lose much time to Vingegaard. I think the worst of his descending issues are past tbh.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter how big the gap was with Pogacar when Masnada left, lol. It matters what the gap was when Masnada reached the valley with Pogacar.

His descending wasn't really that bad before his crash to begin with, but i think especially when wet etc he must have felt really uncomfortable. Not sure if much changed yet tbh.
 
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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
It doesn't matter how big the gap was with Pogacar when Masnada left, lol. It matters what the gap was when Masnada reached the valley with Pogacar.

His descending wasn't really that bad before his crash to begin with, but i think especially when wet etc he must have felt really uncomfortable. Not sure if much changed yet tbh.
Click to expand...

I rememeber Pog & Masnada had about 45 seconds on the chasing group after the descent, which implies a similar descending tempo of Remco and the group.
 
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kingjr

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