Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Vroome.exe]

Re: Re:

even the 15th place at the TT was disappointing to me.

He finished 7 seconds slower than the defending TDF champion, who was fighting for a podium spot.

Finishing 7 seconds behind out of form GC rider is not so good for a TT specialist who was peaking for this race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

even the 15th place at the TT was disappointing to me.

He finished 7 seconds slower than the defending TDF champion, who was fighting for a podium spot.

Finishing 7 seconds behind out of form GC rider is not so good for a TT specialist who was peaking for this race.

Has Jancouver hacked this account? :lol:

He's an ITT specialist of NINETEEN, who already stated his legs aren't feeling 100%.
Thomas was so out of shape, that he was on the podium.
Evenepoel finished ahead of Kruiswijck, who was supposed to win Romandie and very much IN shape (yet not in shape enough to beat an out of shape Thomas).
Ahead of De Gendt, Martinez, Van Baarle, Kämna, Spilak... all good to decent ITT'ers. Some (former) national ITT champs.
According to weather predictions, early riders were bound to ride with more headwind than the GC contenders (later in the day).

Personally, i'm hugely disappointed by his climbing in Romandie, especially after Turkey and UAE, but it's difficult to gauge what exactly went wrong or how things would have transpired without his crashes and mechanicals. But his ITT was about as good as you could expect from a 19 year old.

 

[Vroome.exe]

Re: Re:

even the 15th place at the TT was disappointing to me.

He finished 7 seconds slower than the defending TDF champion, who was fighting for a podium spot.

Finishing 7 seconds behind out of form GC rider is not so good for a TT specialist who was peaking for this race.

Has Jancouver hacked this account? :lol:

He's an ITT specialist of NINETEEN, who already stated his legs aren't feeling 100%.
Thomas was so out of shape, that he was on the podium.
Evenepoel finished ahead of Kruiswijck, who was supposed to win Romandie and very much IN shape (yet not in shape enough to beat an out of shape Thomas).
Ahead of De Gendt, Martinez, Van Baarle, Kämna, Spilak... all good to decent ITT'ers. Some (former) national ITT champs.
According to weather predictions, early riders were bound to ride with more headwind than the GC contenders (later in the day).

Personally, i'm hugely disappointed by his climbing in Romandie, especially after Turkey and UAE, but it's difficult to gauge what exactly went wrong or how things would have transpired without his crashes and mechanicals. But his ITT was about as good as you could expect from a 19 year old.

Thomas on his TDF form beat Roglic by a minute in a TT, he is totally out of form compared to that race, so it's just wrong to say Evenepoel almost beat a defending TDF champ..
But yes if Evenepoel is not feeling too good it's a decent result. However, he stated that he's very happy with this performance so I don't think he could have achieved much more.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

even the 15th place at the TT was disappointing to me.

He finished 7 seconds slower than the defending TDF champion, who was fighting for a podium spot.

Finishing 7 seconds behind out of form GC rider is not so good for a TT specialist who was peaking for this race.

Has Jancouver hacked this account? :lol:

He's an ITT specialist of NINETEEN, who already stated his legs aren't feeling 100%.
Thomas was so out of shape, that he was on the podium.
Evenepoel finished ahead of Kruiswijck, who was supposed to win Romandie and very much IN shape (yet not in shape enough to beat an out of shape Thomas).
Ahead of De Gendt, Martinez, Van Baarle, Kämna, Spilak... all good to decent ITT'ers. Some (former) national ITT champs.
According to weather predictions, early riders were bound to ride with more headwind than the GC contenders (later in the day).

Personally, i'm hugely disappointed by his climbing in Romandie, especially after Turkey and UAE, but it's difficult to gauge what exactly went wrong or how things would have transpired without his crashes and mechanicals. But his ITT was about as good as you could expect from a 19 year old.

Thomas on his TDF form beat Roglic by a minute in a TT, he is totally out of form compared to that race, so it's just wrong to say Evenepoel almost beat a defending TDF champ..
But yes if Evenepoel is not feeling too good it's a decent result. However, he stated that he's very happy with this performance so I don't think he could have achieved much more.

But that was against a Roglic with a damaged elbow who couldn't keep his TT position comfortably.

And so it goes on and on and on.

 

[Valv.Piti]

What we can say is it was nice that the hype took a bit of a dip, that Remco learned what it was like to race an actual proper WT stage race, he got his teeth kicked in and delivered a nice final TT. Pretty much what you could expect from a 19 year old boy racing against men in the middle of the season in a big race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

IIRC, that ITT where he beat Roglic, came the day after Roglic's crazy attack on Dumoulin's place in GC. I'm pretty sure, all things equal, that that ITT wasn't representative of the general ITT level of Thomas relating to that of Roglic.

Maybe you should compare his ITT's as a "specialist" to that of a 19 year old Cancellara, who wasn't even capable to win neither WC ITT U23 nor EC ITT U23. Losing almost a minute to Petrov. At age 20, Cancellara was 15th in the WC ITT elite, losing nearly 2 and a half minutes. What a weak ass ITT'er he was.
Or compare him to another ITT prodige, Mikkel Bjerg, and how he faired at a similar age compared to the pros. Like this. or this.

I don't think there's much wrong with his level of ITT.

The fact that he is considered an ITT specialist, doesn't somehow negate his age.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

even the 15th place at the TT was disappointing to me.

He finished 7 seconds slower than the defending TDF champion, who was fighting for a podium spot.

Finishing 7 seconds behind out of form GC rider is not so good for a TT specialist who was peaking for this race.

You could also add that G was going full-gas every day battling for podium while Remco was "taking it easy" and saving his legs for the TT.

... yet, he finished 15th

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

IIRC, that ITT where he beat Roglic, came the day after Roglic's crazy attack on Dumoulin's place in GC. I'm pretty sure, all things equal, that that ITT wasn't representative of the general ITT level of Thomas relating to that of Roglic.

Maybe you should compare his ITT's as a "specialist" to that of a 19 year old Cancellara, who wasn't even capable to win neither WC ITT U23 nor EC ITT U23. Losing almost a minute to Petrov. At age 20, Cancellara was 15th in the WC ITT elite, losing nearly 2 and a half minutes. What a weak *** ITT'er he was.
Or compare him to another ITT prodige, Mikkel Bjerg, and how he faired at a similar age compared to the pros. Like this. or this.

I don't think there's much wrong with his level of ITT.

The fact that he is considered an ITT specialist, doesn't somehow negate his age.

Roglic was riding around with a little rock in his elbow from a crash before the Tour. He hadn't really trained much on his TT bike as a result, that's why his ITT was bad in the Tour

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

even the 15th place at the TT was disappointing to me.

He finished 7 seconds slower than the defending TDF champion, who was fighting for a podium spot.

Finishing 7 seconds behind out of form GC rider is not so good for a TT specialist who was peaking for this race.

You could also add that G was going full-gas every day battling for podium while Remco was "taking it easy" and saving his legs for the TT.

... yet, he finished 15th

By being in the break of the day the stage before the TT.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

even the 15th place at the TT was disappointing to me.

He finished 7 seconds slower than the defending TDF champion, who was fighting for a podium spot.

Finishing 7 seconds behind out of form GC rider is not so good for a TT specialist who was peaking for this race.

You could also add that G was going full-gas every day battling for podium while Remco was "taking it easy" and saving his legs for the TT.

... yet, he finished 15th

By being in the break of the day the stage before the TT.

By riding a steady tempo in a break of eight riders and then taking it easy on the final climb and losing 8min huh? LOL

 

[Valv.Piti]

Thats still not taking it easy.

 

[spalco]

I'm starting to hate this thread. Any microscopic detail about Evanepoel's physique or performance gets analysed and extrapolated in the extreme even though nobody can really tell anything about his future imo.

 

[Screecher]

Re:

I'm starting to hate this thread. Any microscopic detail about Evanepoel's physique or performance gets analysed and extrapolated in the extreme even though nobody can really tell anything about his future imo.

I can tell (with confidence) that he won't be the next Eddy Merckx.

 

[topt]

Re: Re:

even the 15th place at the TT was disappointing to me.

He finished 7 seconds slower than the defending TDF champion, who was fighting for a podium spot.

Finishing 7 seconds behind out of form GC rider is not so good for a TT specialist who was peaking for this race.

Has Jancouver hacked this account? :lol:

He's an ITT specialist of NINETEEN, who already stated his legs aren't feeling 100%.
Thomas was so out of shape, that he was on the podium.
Evenepoel finished ahead of Kruiswijck, who was supposed to win Romandie and very much IN shape (yet not in shape enough to beat an out of shape Thomas).
Ahead of De Gendt, Martinez, Van Baarle, Kämna, Spilak... all good to decent ITT'ers. Some (former) national ITT champs.
According to weather predictions, early riders were bound to ride with more headwind than the GC contenders (later in the day).

Personally, i'm hugely disappointed by his climbing in Romandie, especially after Turkey and UAE, but it's difficult to gauge what exactly went wrong or how things would have transpired without his crashes and mechanicals. But his ITT was about as good as you could expect from a 19 year old.

Thomas on his TDF form beat Roglic by a minute in a TT, he is totally out of form compared to that race, so it's just wrong to say Evenepoel almost beat a defending TDF champ..
But yes if Evenepoel is not feeling too good it's a decent result. However, he stated that he's very happy with this performance so I don't think he could have achieved much more.

I am quite sure we will never again see Thomas beat Roglič by a minute

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

I'm starting to hate this thread. Any microscopic detail about Evanepoel's physique or performance gets analysed and extrapolated in the extreme even though nobody can really tell anything about his future imo.

I can tell (with confidence) that he won't be the next Eddy Merckx.

I think you are being unfair to the kid

Most champions get to mature away from microscopic analysis of everything they do

He should not be pro for another 2 years

whatever he does is seen as a failure unless he wins ...which is ridiculous
An this from armchair jockeys who never have and never will compete with the best

Physical ability is only part of the picture to be coming a champion

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think he just meant that there will never be a next Eddy Merckx.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It's pretty usless to judge anything he does as 19yo who skipped the entire u23 part of his career.

Let's see when he is 23/24.

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

It's pretty usless to judge anything he does as 19yo who skipped the entire u23 part of his career.

Let's see when he is 23/24.

So until recently, it was "in a year or two", and now, (just to play it safe huh), I have to wait five years for the new Merckx to deliver?

We all had such high hopes, "Mr-Logic" is delivering daily PR on every article and interview published, talking about his amazing "diesel-style-climbing-and-tt-engine" and now I have to wait that long?

Damn, that is disappointing! I was so hoping he will be delivering the kind of excitement MVP has been giving us this year.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If you find that disappointing, then maybe you should learn how to read. It would be beneficial for this thread, for my mental health, as well as your own.
Until recently it was "in a year or two" before he would ride a GT. That's what was going to happen in a year or two.
If you read the daily PR from Mr Logic, you would have known the expectations from Evenepoel's entourage, were that he would be able to ride top 10 in GT GC's. Evenepoel's dream, is to win a GT once in his life. If you do not understand the difference between expectations and dreams, please consult your dictionary.
Both his trainer, his parents, he himself, his team managers, have always been vocal about how much he still has to learn. This is all documented in Mr Logic's daily PR, had you bothered to read it.
As explained to you before, many times, the "next Merckx" moniker was given in jest, referring to his dominance in the junior ranks.
As explained to you before, many times, Merckx was still riding in the amateur ranks when he was 19.
How old do you think MVDP is? 19? 20? (He's 24.)

 

[Juan Pelota]

What's next on the itinerary for the kid?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re:

What's next on the itinerary for the kid?

see: viewtopic.php?p=2352116#p2352116

Nothing really interesting in terms of GC or climbing. Some TT tests. I hope he reconsiders and starts L'Avenir.


--------------------------

Apparently national coach Verbrugghe is considering him for the WC ITT elites. I would just let him ride the U23 where he actually has a decent shot at winning. Don't know where Bjerg and Van Moer will be riding (U23 or elite). But even with them competing, he could win the ITT U23 i think. But judging by his ITT in Romandie, he won't come close to competing for a top spot as an elite.

 

[skidmark]

Thanks for the detailed updates in this thread, Logic.

Too bad not to see him on the climbs in a top tier WT race, but those experiences getting your head kicked in are good for young riders to keep a sense of perspective. I find it weird catching up on this thread to find the out-of-context transitive arguments - like he finished close to Thomas in the TT, who beat Roglic in the Tour last year or something... I mean, how do we draw conclusions from that? It's too granular. In the end, 15th in a WT TT is pretty great for a 19-year-old, as is 4th in Turkey. And sure, there were no top tier riders in Turkey, but the guy who won - Grosschartner - is in good enough form to get top 5 in Romandie. So that seems like a sensible comparison grounded in reality. Anyway, Evenepoel has certainly lived up to whatever expectations I had coming into the season. If not in every single race, in general. QuickStep have done a good job constructing a schedule for him, and I look forward to seeing what happens in the second half of the season and how things might develop next year.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re:

I think he just meant that there will never be a next Eddy Merckx.

Yip. Pretty simple as that.

As long as he is not the next Miguel Morras Mangado, he will just be fine.

 

[Bonimenier]

Pogacar = new Merckx

 

[tobydawq]

Apparently, Dumoulin is more impressed by Remco than Jancouver is:

The opening months of Evenepoel's career have given him plenty to smile about, including his performances in San Juan and the UAE. However, an encounter with Tom Dumoulin during one of the stages of the UAE Tour ranks highly in his favourite moments so far.

"[It was] a day with lots of wind and echelons. It was a real war out there and the peloton had split in two. I got caught behind a crash and ended up in the second echelon but I felt the pace wasn't high enough so I attacked and rode across to the first group on my own," explained Evenepoel.

"When I got there, another crash happened and I found myself behind once again. This time with Elia Viviani, who we were going for that day. Tom Dumoulin was also in that group. I started to pull at the front for Viviani and I just went full gas for 10 minutes or so trying and close the gap. Eventually, we made it back and when things calmed down a bit, Dumoulin went to me and said "Wow, you're really amazing. Good job!

"That was really a big moment for me, to have the Giro d'Italia winner and time trial world champion come and tell me that. It was the most beautiful moment of my season so far."