Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Wishing him covid to make the performance seem less bad is really childish mindset.

What are you talking about. We are looking for explanations. As should he and the team considering he wants to be a GC rider and win GT's. If there is no explanation, then you can basically forget about being a GC rider for GT's because then it means you can't control it and it can happen anytime. Looking back at his short career so far, he ran like clockwork before his crash. The only bad days he had were in the 2019 ToR where he had crashed several times and it was cold and wet. But for four years he rarely had an offday. Now he still manages the same highs, but he has far more lows to go along with them. For an aspiring GT contender, we should hope for something that explains it other than ''didn't have the legs''. In case he has covid, then today's result does not have to dampen his future ambitions.

I never said that mass doesn't matter on short climbs, only that it's not the issue here. Evenepoel did way better on Itzulla climbs while probably weighting more. In Norway he looked skinnier than before, had his best ever climbing performance and now suddenly mass is a problem again? It doesn't add up. Either there's a particular reason (illness, dehydration etc) or his form really dropped after spectacular form for a prolonged period (from LBL).

It's possible that race conditions have an impact on when exactly you can't keep up anymore in case your weight is suboptimal. Van Aert can follow many climbers for a few days, but finally he will get dropped. Being too heavy doesn't necessarily mean you will get dropped on every climb on every day. But it will likely happen eventually, and the more you weigh the higher the probability. Your body has to be able to keep providing the energy to push those watts. I think it will be less evident for a small guy to keep pushing big watts to compensate for his suboptimal weight even if he has the power to do so, you also have to be able to keep it up and have the energy for it.

Certainly disappointing for me, I'd hoped to see a good performance and even a win this week. Will be interesting to see what he says. Maybe I missed it already.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkEpbAZi46o

 

[Ripper]

Well time will tell about today. I had really bad legs for nearly half a week before I actually tested positive for Covid (and actually felt sick). So if he is ill, it might take a day or more to become apparent.

 

[Big Doopie]

no matter what, it is disappointing.

 

[Riek s]

Remco own explanation is overheating and that he struggled with the accelerations and less with the high tempo. (and that he forgotten that there was another climb otherwise he would have tried to hang on longer).

Lets see what brings the next days. Heat is not always the same and for sure not the same when comparing sweden to portugal/spain with the same temperature. (humidity)
But tomorrow won't be 10° colder i think... so unless he takes better care of dehydration and cooling underway ...

Performance wise we can't make any conclusions on this. Its not like form dissappears in 2-3 days. For sure this isn't a form related problem. Being the 5stage shouldn't be an issue either given how they rode the last days. Its not like it have been 5 hard days in the mountains.

agree with Big doopie, bit dissapointing. (unless it really ends up being sick)

 

[red_flanders]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkEpbAZi46o

Thanks, much appreciated.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

If he doesn't lose fairly large amount time on Stage 6 and/or 7 I would be surprised. Looks like he might have mild heat exhaustion and that's hard to recover from in such a short time frame.

 

[Extinction]

Look I have no problem with Evenepoel. He's a sport star and they sometimes have a little bit of a overconfident behaviour but that's priced in.

What I find pretty remarkable is the obsession with every single pedal stroke. I don't see this with van Aert, van der Poel, Alaphilippe, Bernal, Roglic, Pogacar and the other guys on Remcos level. Everyone has a bad day from time to time and today was one. Wishing him covid to make the performance seem less bad is really childish mindset.

Also besides his watts in Norway (I didn't saw the race but it look on paper very good) his season is just ranked that high because of Liege. That was not only a win because of strong legs but also a tactical win. I don't think he could have won the race on the climbs and teams didn't commit to a organized chase until it was too late. I would still say the strongest rider won on that day but I could also see him loosing a sprint out of a 5-6 men group if he is marked not only from Powless in his attack.

The other results this year? Not that remarkable as his 2020 results. Which is ok. He should keep his best form for the Vuelta at the end of the year and he was nevertheless competitive in the races he raced hin. But when it comes to stage races he isn't clearly a level above the other good GC guys as Pogacar and Roglic are.

If he races on in Suisse he can still com Top 5 which would be another good result and a step forward for him in my opinion.

I don't think it was childish, because Covid isn't the Black Death. It is a variant of flu and, like all flus, a rider infected will immediately suffer a loss of strength and drop in form. Given that a number of riders have pulled out of the race infected with Covid, it's completely normal to "hope" his poor performance is explainable through Covid, otherwise one wonders about his future as a rider for Grand Tours.

On Liege, Nibali said he tried to get on Remco's wheel when he attacked, but couldn't because he was going "three times as fast." "Impressive, he's a phenomenon," Nibali concluded. So his win there was very much on pure power.

 

[dutchdescent]

Look I have no problem with Evenepoel. He's a sport star and they sometimes have a little bit of a overconfident behaviour but that's priced in.

What I find pretty remarkable is the obsession with every single pedal stroke. I don't see this with van Aert, van der Poel, Alaphilippe, Bernal, Roglic, Pogacar and the other guys on Remcos level. Everyone has a bad day from time to time and today was one. Wishing him covid to make the performance seem less bad is really childish mindset.

Also besides his watts in Norway (I didn't saw the race but it look on paper very good) his season is just ranked that high because of Liege. That was not only a win because of strong legs but also a tactical win. I don't think he could have won the race on the climbs and teams didn't commit to a organized chase until it was too late. I would still say the strongest rider won on that day but I could also see him loosing a sprint out of a 5-6 men group if he is marked not only from Powless in his attack.

The other results this year? Not that remarkable as his 2020 results. Which is ok. He should keep his best form for the Vuelta at the end of the year and he was nevertheless competitive in the races he raced hin. But when it comes to stage races he isn't clearly a level above the other good GC guys as Pogacar and Roglic are.

If he races on in Suisse he can still com Top 5 which would be another good result and a step forward for him in my opinion.

The obsession is reminiscent of the Contador thread anno 2015-2017. The amount of discussion back then over his weight (judged by photographs of him ) were through he roof. Remember Fleur? @LaFlorecita

 

[GuntherL1]

Remco own explanation is overheating and that he struggled with the accelerations and less with the high tempo. (and that he forgotten that there was another climb otherwise he would have tried to hang on longer).

Lets see what brings the next days. Heat is not always the same and for sure not the same when comparing sweden to portugal/spain with the same temperature. (humidity)
But tomorrow won't be 10° colder i think... so unless he takes better care of dehydration and cooling underway ...

Performance wise we can't make any conclusions on this. Its not like form dissappears in 2-3 days. For sure this isn't a form related problem. Being the 5stage shouldn't be an issue either given how they rode the last days. Its not like it have been 5 hard days in the mountains.

agree with Big doopie, bit dissapointing. (unless it really ends up being sick)

Tomorrow will be cooler because of the altitude. The majority of the stage is over 600m altitude and the finish is at 2000m. The heat should not be an issue tomorrow, neither on Saturday (to a lesser extent).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Can't go into specifics, but Evenepoel came back fatigued from Norway which was not ''foreseen''. Don't know in which way this could have impacted his ride today. If that has anything to do with it, i doubt he'll do better tomorrow.

 

[Salvarani]

If he is exhausted... I could see him dropping as early as the first climb tomorrow.

Especially if he is a bit demoralized.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Should have raced baloise Belgium Tour. Would win again and less stress to the body after a intense spring and aiming for the vuelta and wolrd championeships.

But maybe Suisse is good heat adaption? I don't know.

 

[Red Rick]

Can't go into specifics, but Evenepoel came back fatigued from Norway which was not ''foreseen''. Don't know in which way this could have impacted his ride today. If that has anything to do with it, i doubt he'll do better tomorrow.

That sounds like a viral infection. It wouldn't need to affect performance immediately, especially if he picked it up during Tour of Norway, but it could definitely affect his recovery.

Sounds like a really bad idea to continue this race tbh.

 

[Cookster15]

Sounds like he is sick it certainly isn't very hot in Switzerland now - 25C? But I don't think we should read too much into this.

On the other hand, sometimes riders can become more susceptible to viral infection if their body isn't recovering from stage racing? But I am not sure why he would be physically fatigued after a week long race like Norway with mediocre competition - that would not bode well for his future grand tour ambitions?

Agree with Red Rick that best course of action should be to withdraw and recover as a precaution. Otherwise by continuing to race whilst ill he risks extended illness or even picking up a worse infection. A worst case scenario would be contracting pneumonia which can damage the lungs.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Sounds like he is sick it certainly isn't very hot in Switzerland now - 25C? But I don't think we should read too much into this.

On the other hand, sometimes riders can become more susceptible to viral infection if their body isn't recovering from stage racing? But I am not sure why he would be physically fatigued after a week long race like Norway with mediocre competition - that would not bode well for his future grand tour ambitions?

Agree with Red Rick that best course of action should be to withdraw and recover as a precaution. Otherwise by continuing to race whilst ill he risks extended illness or even picking up a worse infection. A worst case scenario would be contracting pneumonia which can damage the lungs.

It was at least 31 degrees today.

 

[Cookster15]

It was at least 31 degrees today.

It gets much hotter in Australia during the TDU and of course we all know it can be much hotter in France in July and the Vuelta. Again I don't think this bodes well for Remco's stage racing ambitions as it casts doubt on his physical recovery. Time will tell.

 

[rm2021]

Stop find excuses for remco evenepoel. Sometimes itt appears that we are talking about pogacar. Calm down a bit. He's young, he will be better in the future, let him grown up. He is already a good rider, but ain't still the rider that all of you think.
Perfectly normal that he has some bad days, he's not pogacar. The only rider that doesn't have bad days.

 

[Filippo_3467]

What are you talking about. We are looking for explanations. As should he and the team considering he wants to be a GC rider and win GT's. If there is no explanation, then you can basically forget about being a GC rider for GT's because then it means you can't control it and it can happen anytime. Looking back at his short career so far, he ran like clockwork before his crash. The only bad days he had were in the 2019 ToR where he had crashed several times and it was cold and wet. But for four years he rarely had an offday. Now he still manages the same highs, but he has far more lows to go along with them. For an aspiring GT contender, we should hope for something that explains it other than ''didn't have the legs''. In case he has covid, then today's result does not have to dampen his future ambitions.


It's possible that race conditions have an impact on when exactly you can't keep up anymore in case your weight is suboptimal. Van Aert can follow many climbers for a few days, but finally he will get dropped. Being too heavy doesn't necessarily mean you will get dropped on every climb on every day. But it will likely happen eventually, and the more you weigh the higher the probability. Your body has to be able to keep providing the energy to push those watts. I think it will be less evident for a small guy to keep pushing big watts to compensate for his suboptimal weight even if he has the power to do so, you also have to be able to keep it up and have the energy for it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkEpbAZi46o

I don't understand why one day in a totally unimportant race (in the grand scheme of things) should dampen his future ambitions. Because of his Norway performance he isn't a future grand tour winner. The same as with his performance today he isn't a hopless case to be a future grand tour winner. It's just one day in hundreds of stage races to come. All shots at a Grand Tour that Remco has in the future are determined by a set of dozens variables that are not totally in his control. It's a total joke to access anything that Remco can do in the future on single day events. That dude is 22, has won already a lot and has never even really tried a Grand Tour with proper preparation.

If everyone would just cool the F*** down and discuss the topic of Remcos Grand Tour record in 3-4 years when he had actually some time to race them and develop himself further the cycling world would be a better place. If he's even one a GT until then then we don't even have to discuss and obsess about him dropping in some stage in Switzerland or which watts/kg he pushed on whogivesashit-stoppen in Norway.

I enjoy discussing cycling, tactics, developments, routes, new technology but I will never understand how journalists and fans can be so obsessed with one individual that every single performance is put under the microscope. Sorry I just don't get it. End of rant.

 

[Extinction]

I don't understand why one day in a totally unimportant race (in the grand scheme of things) should dampen his future ambitions. Because of his Norway performance he isn't a future grand tour winner. The same as with his performance today he isn't a hopless case to be a future grand tour winner. It's just one day in hundreds of stage races to come. All shots at a Grand Tour that Remco has in the future are determined by a set of dozens variables that are not totally in his control. It's a total joke to access anything that Remco can do in the future on single day events. That dude is 22, has won already a lot and has never even really tried a Grand Tour with proper preparation.

If everyone would just cool the F*** down and discuss the topic of Remcos Grand Tour record in 3-4 years when he had actually some time to race them and develop himself further the cycling world would be a better place. If he's even one a GT until then then we don't even have to discuss and obsess about him dropping in some stage in Switzerland or which watts/kg he pushed on whogivesashit-stoppen in Norway.

I enjoy discussing cycling, tactics, developments, routes, new technology but I will never understand how journalists and fans can be so obsessed with one individual that every single performance is put under the microscope. Sorry I just don't get it. End of rant.

Remco came out of the juniors straight into the World Tour and began to repeatedly win. It's normal that the interest and hype around him, given his precoscious age, especially in a cycling mad country like Belgium that has not had a rider who could win the Tour since Lucian Van Impe and Merckx, has been stratospheric. And if it wasn't for a certain Pogacar none of that hype would seem misplaced. He would have had the normal expectations of development otherwise, but history has determined a tough fate.

 

[Cookster15]

I think the hype with Remco was justified but everyone is getting impatient for the confirmation. The hype came from on paper watts per kilo and his results early. For me it was the 2018 worlds juniors then more recently LBL. But he hasn't finished a grand tour and now this. I hope for him he get over the (assumed) virus and finally answers the questions everyone has been wanting to know. Can he race for three weeks with the best? On paper says yes, but reality is often different.

 

[Extinction]

I think the hype with Remco was justified but everyone is getting impatient for the confirmation. The hype came from on paper watts per kilo and his results early. For me it was the 2018 worlds juniors then more recently LBL. But he hasn't finished a grand tour and now this. I hope for him he get over the (assumed) virus and finally answers the questions everyone has been wanting to know. Can he race for three weeks with the best? On paper says yes, but reality is often different.

First he has to get through the Tour de Suisse.

 

[greyclouds]

Why do we need to scrutinise Remco so much. Leave him alone. He might be getting sick, in which case he should drop out, even if just for precaution, or might just have had an off day. Either way, one off day in a minor season goal doesn’t mean much. He had a good and intense spring schedule, with decent efforts at T-A and Itzulia, plus a superb win at LBL. The same way that winning at Norway doesn’t make the future TdF winner, doing well or not so well in Suisse when his next season target is Vuelta doesn’t mean much. Leave the kid alone.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

It gets much hotter in Australia during the TDU and of course we all know it can be much hotter in France in July and the Vuelta. Again I don't think this bodes well for Remco's stage racing ambitions as it casts doubt on his physical recovery. Time will tell.

To early to tell. He's had one other race where he got sick. Logic is hinting that Remco had something going after the Tour of Norway.

We really do not know the whole story.

I think it's a bit premature to write off one this generations great talents becuase of something that occurred on one hot day/week in June.

He's not the only one suffering so far on TdS, which has been a week long advert for global warming.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

I stand corrected it was 36 degrees on average today. That is insanely hot.

 

[perico]

I am aware of this and doesn't change my opinion of the hype. Contador beat Ricco who never achieved anything of note other than clinic notoriety and Marzio Bruseghin. Hardly world beaters. Very weak field and the condition Contador had was more than adequate despite the disrupted prep. There were other riders of that time who would have also cleaned up had they raced. Contador was certainly training, "sitting on a beach" implies he wasn't riding which is hype and nonsense.

Hate to break your narrative, but take it from someone who knows Contador’s numbers better than you or I:

“I know that some people thought that there were potential doping issues around Alberto, and, obviously, he did later test positive for clenbuterol. So why was I interested in him? Well, because I believed—and still do—Alberto to be the most talented GC rider of his generation. I believed he could win a Grand Tour clean, and that the stricter the anti-doping controls became, the more he would win due to his physiological superiority. I drew that conclusion from a few points of reference.
One was Iñigo San Millán, who had tested Alberto at a very young age. Iñigo said it was the most remarkable and eye-opening physiological test he’d ever conducted. Iñigo had conducted a lot of tests, on both clean and dirty riders.
Alberto gave us no cause to worry. He released all his blood values and his biological passport to us and our doctors. They reviewed them and said there was nothing remarkable to be seen in the blood tests, which, in light of “how well Alberto was riding in 2008 and 2009, is really a statement. The 2007 season was pre–biological passport, so 2008 was as far back as we could review.
Anyway, clean rider versus clean rider, Contador wins. That’s why I liked him.”

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‎Sports & Outdoors · 2019

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