Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[hfer07]

I'm actually quite pleased with Remco's performance in La Vuelta so far. He's surely very strong, his form is great so far, so hopefully he'll be able to manage the healthy advantage he's got over Roglic in the next two weeks & gets the best outcome possible. This is the real test for Remco to act, behave & lead as a true GC so his teammates would to do the load work so he can perform when it matters.

 

[Extinction]

How many people are actually testing though? At work they went from testing everyone to just those showing sings and symptoms. How many have take home tests that don’t go to the hospital or report it?

True, but how many infected risk more than ordinary flu, bar the old and infirm, who could in any case die from an common cold turned pneumonia? It's really time to normalize the situation, I think.

 

[KZD]

Today was probably the strongest TT performance of the year, if Remco keeps something in the tank after the Vuelta he could become World TT champion even if the course is not perfect for him

 

[hfer07]

Surprisingly many covid-positives in the Vuelta peloton, at a time when there aren't that many infections in the general public. It'd be stupid if he'd have to leave for this reason.

To me is all about the Guidelines & Positive thresholds that are the main factor here i.e. PCR tests at 40 for threshold is too high.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I'm not going to go through the trouble of reading how people exactly formulated it. Not fit, not as good as usual, still suffering from his crash... however it was put. In the past years Remco wasn't at the Vuelta, so as an exercise it is interesting to hypothesise if Roglic was better the past years than he is now. Two years ago he needed all the bonis he could get to beat Carapaz. Last year he was less than 30s ahead of... Mas, after stage 10. So without Evenepoel, Mas would not have taken (as much) time on Roglic on stage 6, and without Evenepoel Roglic would have won the TT and would have taken the lead by a lot more than the same time last year.

Well, you're going to hate this response, but the truth is that Roglic has never raced the Vuelta at absolute peak as, I believe, Remco is doing right now. He has still been good, maybe great, in all of those Vueltas. And I would say his ITT today was good, as well, as others have said, including the post you quoted. But here is the context for Roglic:

• 2019 he raced the Giro, and we've been reminded just this year that that is a difficult double (See: Hindley, Carapaz, Landa)
• 2020 it was a weird Covid year, he crashed in the Dauphine, and then went super deep to get 2nd in the Tour, all before racing and winning the Vuelta
• 2021 he crashed hard in stage 3 of the Tour and pushed on until stage 9 when he dropped out, then recovered for the Vuelta
• 2022 he struggled with a knee injury early in the year, crashed out of the Tour, taking a month off of the bike, with 10 days of training before the Vuelta

Remco has had his own share of "context" of course, but he is super prepped and undoubtedly on form right now. He possibly would be beating Roglic no matter what, but Roglic has never come into a year with the Vuelta as his target and structured his year around it. And this year has been the worst prep of all. That is all some are pointing out. I certainly don't mean to slander Remco by pointing that out; I think he is amazing and am slowly becoming a fan (not that I disliked him before). I think he is proving a lot already and will prove even more when he wins the Vuelta.

 

[Riek s]

I wonder what Remco will do next year after this... whatever happens in this Vuelta, he already knows he can ride a GT for the win.
Will he still 'fat' up to be a little more explosive for LBL? or will he stay his current weight.. will he still go for classics? or go full GC mode with Tirreno/Itzul/romand/...

 

[Big Doopie]

remco up into 3rd in PCS ranking (slipping by rog)

wva squeaks by pog into first

 

[Extinction]

Well, you're going to hate this response, but the truth is that Roglic has never raced the Vuelta at absolute peak as, I believe, Remco is doing right now. He has still been good, maybe great, in all of those Vueltas. And I would say his ITT today was good, as well, as others have said, including the post you quoted. But here is the context for Roglic:

• 2019 he raced the Giro, and we've been reminded just this year that that is a difficult double (See: Hindley, Carapaz, Landa)
• 2020 it was a weird Covid year, he crashed in the Dauphine, and then went super deep to get 2nd in the Tour, all before racing and winning the Vuelta
• 2021 he crashed hard in stage 3 of the Tour and pushed on until stage 9 when he dropped out, then recovered for the Vuelta
• 2022 he struggled with a knee injury early in the year, crashed out of the Tour, taking a month off of the bike, with 10 days of training before the Vuelta

Remco has had his own share of "context" of course, but he is super prepped right now and possibly would be beating Roglic no matter what. But Roglic has never come into a year with the Vuelta as his target and structured his year around it. And this year has been the worst prep of all. That is all some are pointing out. I certainly don't mean to slander Remco by pointing that out; I think he is amazing and am slowly becoming a fan (not that I disliked him before). I think he is proving a lot already and will prove even more when he wins the Vuelta.

To counter, Remco is only 22, so how much margin of gain has he got before reaching his athletic peak?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

To counter, Remco is only 22, so how much margin of gain has he got before reaching his athletic peak?

I'm not sure that's necessarily a counter, as I'm not saying that Remco at peak won't be better than Roglic has been at peak. But it's a good question. I would assume he will get at least a little better, although recent (flawed) anecdotal evidence (Contador, Quintana, Bernal, Pogacar) indicates that the early bloomers don't necessarily continue to improve into their late twenties. I hope he continues to improve, as I would love to watch the clash of styles between Remco, Vingegaard, and Pogacar in future GTs. It will be fun to watch.

 

[red_flanders]

I wonder what Remco will do next year after this... whatever happens in this Vuelta, he already knows he can ride a GT for the win.
Will he still 'fat' up to be a little more explosive for LBL? or will he stay his current weight.. will he still go for classics? or go full GC mode with Tirreno/Itzul/romand/...

I don't really get the discussions about his weight to be honest. He seems on the best form we've ever seen right now, and that form would be great for Classics, one-week stage races, or GT's. I don't really see how he'd be more explosive with more weight (muscle).

To me he's done very specific training for a GT which in my view sets the table for his form going forward. Intentionally gaining weight at this point seems bizarre to me.

 

[houtdffan]

I wonder what Remco will do next year after this... whatever happens in this Vuelta, he already knows he can ride a GT for the win.
Will he still 'fat' up to be a little more explosive for LBL? or will he stay his current weight.. will he still go for classics? or go full GC mode with Tirreno/Itzul/romand/...

This Remco could probably win MSR

He'd have too large of a lead after the Ciepressa

 

[SHAD0W93]

True, but how many infected risk more than ordinare flu, bar the old and infirm, who could in any case die from an ordinarty cold turned pneumonia? It's really time to normalize the situation, I think.

Quite a bit of people can die from pneumonia if it goes untreated of all ages. But yes, Covid should be regarded like Tuberculosis. Common cold isn’t as comparable since they have different precautions.

 

[Extinction]

I'm not sure that's necessarily a counter, as I'm not saying that Remco at peak won't be better than Roglic has been at peak. But it's a good question. I would assume he will get at least a little better, although recent (flawed) anecdotal evidence (Contador, Quintana, Bernal, Pogacar) indicates that the early bloomers don't necessarily continue to improve into their late twenties. I hope he continues to improve, as I would love to watch the clash of styles between Remco, Vingegaard, and Pogacar in future GTs. It will be fun to watch.

Fair enough, however, for example, I hardly think Tadej's second place at the Tour is any indication of a downward slide into hasbeendom. To the contrary, I suspect he shall return with a vengeance, more fiercely motivated than ever.

 

[red_flanders]

Fair enough, however, for example, I hardly think Tadej's second place at the Tour is any indication of a downward slide into hasbeendom. To the contrary, I suspect he shall return with a vengeance, more fiercely motivated than ever.

Agreed, it's subjective but my feeling was that his level was at least as high as the year before, and he seems to have steadily been getting more ferocious. Jumbo simply kicked it up a huge level this year, across the board.

 

[Big Doopie]

This Remco could probably win MSR

He'd have too large of a lead after the Ciepressa

no. let's not get carried away.

 

[houtdffan]

no. let's not get carried away.

Pog nearly did this year with only a Poggio attack.

Before this year, nobody in the modern era had won LBL via an attack on La Redoutte. That would have been considered crazy talk. Nobody does a climb at 7.25 w/kg then does an ITT 90 seconds faster than the peloton does a TTT

 

[Extinction]

Quite a bit of people can die from pneumonia if it goes untreated of all ages. But yes, Covid should be regarded like Tuberculosis. Common cold isn’t as comparable since they have different precautions.

True, however, the probability that flu turns pneumonia among the young and healthy population isn't sufficient to take restrictive measures, as concerns over Covid still do. After the lockdowns and vaccination campaigns, politics and medicine have done what could be done. Society is no longer in the throes of death other than a certain lingering paranoia among some thinking so.

 

[Jagartrott]

How many people are actually testing though? At work they went from testing everyone to just those showing sings and symptoms. How many have take home tests that don’t go to the hospital or report it?

Yeah, many people don't report self-tests, but hospitalizations are still coming down in Belgium in line with positives, so I would assume actually there are less infections than during the Tour, for instance. Yet here we already have - what - 15 or so riders out of this Vuelta with covid? Have teams become more sloppy? Are Spanish supporters super-contagious?

 

[Riek s]

I don't really get the discussions about his weight to be honest. He seems on the best form we've ever seen right now, and that form would be great for Classics, one-week stage races, or GT's. I don't really see how he'd be more explosive with more weight (muscle).

To me he's done very specific training for a GT which in my view sets the table for his form going forward. Intentionally gaining weight at this point seems bizarre to me.

Sure, I completely agree with you, but that is what they did last year to prepare for LBL. So i'm wondering if they will still do that, or just keep the focus on how he is currently riding and focussing on small improvements here and there over the years. That would also mean he would be more focussed on GT work and a little less for explosive attacks like he did in LBL. (altough i wonder if it mattered that much for him, but they still did it).

I think Remco has 2 paths before him being an absolute GT focus or absolute Classic focus (the start of this year). I hope they do the current GT focus, because i argue his perfromance in the classics won't be any lower because of it. (and i think that is also your point, because he is flying in every direction atm)

Just checked, and if he focussed more on WT 1week stage races instead of 2.Pro he would be close to #1st in the world if he can win a classic/GT as well. Depending on what Pog does ofcourse.)

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well, you're going to hate this response, but the truth is that Roglic has never raced the Vuelta at absolute peak as, I believe, Remco is doing right now. He has still been good, maybe great, in all of those Vueltas. And I would say his ITT today was good, as well, as others have said, including the post you quoted. But here is the context for Roglic:

• 2019 he raced the Giro, and we've been reminded just this year that that is a difficult double (See: Hindley, Carapaz, Landa)
• 2020 it was a weird Covid year, he crashed in the Dauphine, and then went super deep to get 2nd in the Tour, all before racing and winning the Vuelta
• 2021 he crashed hard in stage 3 of the Tour and pushed on until stage 9 when he dropped out, then recovered for the Vuelta
• 2022 he struggled with a knee injury early in the year, crashed out of the Tour, taking a month off of the bike, with 10 days of training before the Vuelta

Remco has had his own share of "context" of course, but he is super prepped and undoubtedly on form right now. He possibly would be beating Roglic no matter what, but Roglic has never come into a year with the Vuelta as his target and structured his year around it. And this year has been the worst prep of all. That is all some are pointing out. I certainly don't mean to slander Remco by pointing that out; I think he is amazing and am slowly becoming a fan (not that I disliked him before). I think he is proving a lot already and will prove even more when he wins the Vuelta.

I have no idea why i would dislike this post as it is basically my own view on the matter, basically simple facts. Maybe i didn't put it exactly how i intended it, but my point was that if Remco weren't here, there would be virtually no difference between this Roglic, and the Roglic of the past few years. Just that now that he gets clobbered by Evenepoel on 2 out of 3 MTFs and the ITT, now people ''notice'' Roglic isn't at the top of his game, not fit, not at his best or whatever. Take Remco out of this Vuelta, and you basically have the same Roglic as the past 3 years.

Having said that, it is interesting that even when Evenepoel has shown to be superior in almost every way, that the time difference is still just one puncture, one bad day, one tactical screwup, one crosswind stage or one crash apart.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Fully deserved victory for Remco… I say this as Primoz‘ fan…

After watching this ITT, one thing became clear to me: Remco has learned from MvdP and Jumbo-Visma. Mathieu and Jumbo know how to prepare properly:

I noticed Remco has these cannonball shoulders. Furthermore, his front thighs look extremely good.

It‘s clear to me that Remco must have spent the last months in the gym. He must have trained entensively on the leg press, and, even more important, trained lateral raises.

You see more and more guys now with these well-developed shoulders. Primoz has them, too. Mathieu‘s shoulders get better, year after year.

As I mentioned, in the past, you had Adrien Petit, Damien Gaudin and Jimmy Engoulvent with these shoulders. Also Kruijswiik.

Then, MvdP came. Afterwards, Primoz. Recently, Laporte. And now, Remco shows excellent shoulder and front thigh development.

Remco‘s prep for this Vuelta, as I would assume: 30-45 mins of cycling on the indoor trainer a day, sleeping in an altitude hotel a la Kolobnev‘s, and 120 mins in the gym, daily (60 lateral raises, 60 leg press)…

 

[ppanther92]

I hope he sows the recovery now. Ok, boring Vuelta then but I am here for the greater good - an absolute epic three man battle for the TdF 2023.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Remco‘s prep for this Vuelta, as I would assume: 30-45 mins of cycling on the indoor trainer a day, sleeping in an altitude hotel a la Kolobnev‘s, and 120 mins in the gym, daily (60 lateral raises, 60 leg press)…

Lol, no.

 

[xREv]

Beast !!!

Edit: found the author:

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[Krzysztof_O]

Fully deserved victory for Remco… I say this as Primoz‘ fan…

After watching this ITT, one thing became clear to me: Remco has learned from MvdP and Jumbo-Visma. Mathieu and Jumbo know how to prepare properly:

I noticed Remco has these cannonball shoulders. Furthermore, his front thighs look extremely good.

It‘s clear to me that Remco must have spent the last months in the gym. He must have trained entensively on the leg press, and, even more important, trained lateral raises.

You see more and more guys now with these well-developed shoulders. Primoz has them, too. Mathieu‘s shoulders get better, year after year.

As I mentioned, in the past, you had Adrien Petit, Damien Gaudin and Jimmy Engoulvent with these shoulders. Also Kruijswiik.

Then, MvdP came. Afterwards, Primoz. Recently, Laporte. And now, Remco shows excellent shoulder and front thigh development.

Remco‘s prep for this Vuelta, as I would assume: 30-45 mins of cycling on the indoor trainer a day, sleeping in an altitude hotel a la Kolobnev‘s, and 120 mins in the gym, daily (60 lateral raises, 60 leg press)…

Remco was a dock worker early in the season but also had a few bike trips in the summer to build some endurance.