Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

In case the cornering was indeed a problem, then you could well lose more than 10 seconds over the course of the TT. Taking a high speed corner too wide, or slow down too much, going into the corner at less than optimal speed and having to make up for that coming out of the corner, will cost you 10 meters or more. You start losing distance by braking too soon/hard, you lose distance by a less than ideal trajectory, and you lose distance coming out of the corner too slow and it will take longer to get back to top speed.

Though we did see Evenepoel take some corners less than great, i don't think we got to follow him closely enough to be able to determine whether this was an issue throughout the race. But if it was, then he could certainly have lost the race there.

EDIT: If you look at this strava Segment, you can see he loses a full 2 seconds in just the last corner to Bissegger, who takes the actual corner almost 10kmh faster. So it does look like he did indeed lose this in the technical sections of the course.

https://www.strava.com/segments/31348012?filter=overall

The coverage I watched was RAI Italia, although I presume it was the same everywhere. At any rate, the rider that got the most screen time seemed to be Kung and Alessandro Petacchi kept remarking how well he was navigating the turns and was stunned that Foss, who wasn't seen as much, was faster. Hence, I think Kung and Foss really drilled it throughout every turn, whereas I do remember one of the sharper bends Remco negotiated in particular, where it was like, ahh man, he didn't do that fast enough (based on Kung as a reference).

 

[Wyndbrook]

Never mind, they can all look forward to riding in the rain next year.

 

[Big Doopie]

View: https://youtu.be/WQQaCyscH38

 

[Riek s]

Remco said he was tired/sleepy. His legs maybe felt ok, but as far as his cornering is concerned i wonder if him being tired/not slept well/feeling the jetlag has anything to do with that. (hard to judge when to break/corner when your mind isn't completely at the same location). He also seemed to have a harder time to stay in aero tuck but that could also be due to the parcour, always preparing for the next twist.

All in all he did a good TT given the circumstances (I was expecting top5 would already be hard given the jetlag and the not so positive signs about his 'legs'). If it would have been in europe, he might have had a bigger shot at becoming champion.

Stilla bronze medaille. (Without all the context around it, his best place was when he was 19, rather remarkable)

 

[Unchained]

Have not reviewed all of my posts about Remco but I feel really good about the state of young riders finding form right now. Even in the Vuelta dominance, other riders attacked him, And that was also the case in the TDF, w the eventual winner being attacked. The current parity is fantastic w races more fun to watch in my opinion with lots of possible winners, deep talent, speed, resumes that show that they can win..I surely don't see one rider,Remco included door matting everyone else.. Seeing the TT times from Australia blew my mind!! People are flying like never before!! Awesome.

 

[Oldermanish]

Have not reviewed all of my posts about Remco but I feel really good about the state of young riders finding form right now. Even in the Vuelta dominance, other riders attacked him, And that was also the case in the TDF, w the eventual winner being attacked. The current parity is fantastic w races more fun to watch in my opinion with lots of possible winners, deep talent, speed, resumes that show that they can win..I surely don't see one rider,Remco included door matting everyone else.. Seeing the TT times from Australia blew my mind!! People are flying like never before!! Awesome.

That's been the rear view impression I've had for the full GT results. Some races have been dull but it's been countered by adventurous and successful younger riders finding their new standards. 3 GTs with no one's Plan A winners is spicy. As for the WC road race I'd agree with out completely. Strategically it's even difficult if the richer teams can manage the talent they have. I've got to find a feed to watch the race.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

This was a good performance, close to the winner. Probably not his best but under the circumstances it's normal. Surely his AnT is still very high following the Vuelta. However, the Vuelta in his legs may affect his performance in a 6.5 hour race way more than in a 40 minute power trial.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Campenaerts also thinks Evenepoel lost his WCC title in the corners, that that's where he lost his 10 seconds.

 

[Big Doopie]

Campenaerts also thinks Evenepoel lost his WCC title in the corners, that that's where he lost his 10 seconds.

well you can be sure that will be improved by next season.

Notice how little we are hearing about his “bad descending” this season.

also, just to put in context his giro right out of the gates after career threatening injury, how is Bernal doing? How would he have fared had he entered the Vuelta as his first race back? Would he have been 2nd on GC a week in? Absolutely no criticism of Bernal whatsoever. It simply puts in context QS ridiculous decision and how silly it was to judge his GT abilities on that comeback race.

having said that, let’s say it as it is: he got beat last Sunday. Not by much. But he got beat. And of course cornering is part of racing. Foss may have been a surprise, but Kung also did great, considering how Remco beat him in Algarve. If anything, it shows how it can really be a matter of 0.5% at this high level. So Foss (and Kung) really prepping this race can make that kind of difference.

also, an observation. Look how small the time gaps were generally. Seems like the huge differences are not being made anymore even in TTs. Technology is improving everyone. And as the speeds continue to climb, the less the time differences between riders. They need to rethink TTs. Obviously adding more kms. But also looking to slow the riders down a bit more by making it even more rolling(?).

saw a thing on GCN where they compared a present day road bike to the TT bike Lemond used in 1989. The road bike was faster. I find that amazing. But this ultimately may need to affect route design and safety measures (as well as giving context to Lemond incredible ride).

 

[Riek s]

well you can be sure that will be improved by next season.

Notice how little we are hearing about his “bad descending” this season.

also, just to put in context his giro right out of the gates after career threatening injury, how is Bernal doing? How would he have fared had he entered the Vuelta as his first race back? Would he have been 2nd on GC a week in? Absolutely no criticism of Bernal whatsoever. It simply puts in context QS ridiculous decision and how silly it was to judge his GT abilities on that comeback race.

having said that, let’s say it as it is: he got beat last Sunday. Not by much. But he got beat. And of course cornering is part of racing. Foss may have been a surprise, but Kung also did great, considering how Remco beat him in Algarve. If anything, it shows how it can really be a matter of 0.5% at this high level. So Foss (and Kung) really prepping this race can make that kind of difference.

also, an observation. Look how small the time gaps were generally. Seems like the huge differences are not being made anymore even in TTs. Technology is improving everyone. And as the speeds continue to climb, the less the time differences between riders. They need to rethink TTs. Obviously adding more kms. But also looking to slow the riders down a bit more by making it even more rolling(?).

saw a thing on GCN where they compared a present day road bike to the TT bike Lemond used in 1989. The road bike was faster. I find that amazing. But this ultimately may need to affect route design and safety measures (as well as giving context to Lemond incredible ride).

A Remco being tired is probably the main reason why his cornering was on the slow side. HIm not being able to feel his legs, prepare the TT at high speed etc..


Don't think we can rate 50+ second on 30km parcour as a minor difference imo. (Vuelta ITT)
The WC is due the parcour and the relative low distance. Normally i would expect 50-60km ITT for WC.

And i think that is the main reason why the time losses are seen as minor, the low amount of TT km. Their is a big difference between a 30min, 1hour, 1h+
Not only is the aero more accentuated, but also how long you can keep that position and how high of a power output you have for such a duration and on top of that it is also a different mental game for such a duration.

I would like that they moved back to TT that take 1hour or more instead of those 30min full effort TTs.

 

[memyselfandI]

In espoirs race Hayter Jr. and early bird Bévort defined the 'flow' and 'smooth'. Remco for sure is bigger engine but those two are good references for any athlete, they were standard for excellence imho.

 

[Oldermanish]

This was a good performance, close to the winner. Probably not his best but under the circumstances it's normal. Surely his AnT is still very high following the Vuelta. However, the Vuelta in his legs may affect his performance in a 6.5 hour race way more than in a 40 minute power trial.

It may actually help him chill out and endure it. Not chasing pack splits could also help him unless it turns into sprinter territory. I'd hate to see him be flat and relegated to domestique setup, though. He's earned a shot if he's up to it.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Little Remco should behave well this time. Otherwise, Mighty Wout won't invite him for a coffee again.

 

[Bonimenier]

Little Remco should behave well this time. Otherwise, Mighty Wout won't invite him for coffee again.

Little Remco has double the amount of big wins in his career in far fewer tries than Mighty Wout though.

 

[Skalman]

Haven't read all pages, so ist he doing Il Lombardia? he isn't on the team.

 

[Wvv]

Haven't read all pages, so ist he doing Il Lombardia? he isn't on the team.

Long season ends in Australia. Has been the plan since the beginning of this season.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Little Remco should behave well this time. Otherwise, Mighty Wout won't invite him for a coffee again.

Wout should be listening to Remco about how to win big races. Remco knows how to attack and thus how to win.

Belgian Pozzato has the strength but he is always too defensive.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Wout should be listening to Remco about how to win big races. Remco knows how to attack and thus how to win.

Belgian Pozzato has the strength but he is always too defensive.

I find it hard to see either of them winning.
Belgium is very much going down the two cards plan this year as opposed to last year's supreme leader toss.
Meanwhile France have at least four cards to play and it'll be tough chasing them all down.
And then there's Pog and MvdP to shake off.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I find it hard to see either of them winning.
Belgium is very much going down the two cards plan this year as opposed to last year's supreme leader toss.
Meanwhile France have at least four cards to play and it'll be tough chasing them all down.
And then there's Pog and MvdP to shake off.

France has 4 cards? That's as much true as saying France has 0 cards. They have options, like many other countries. Apparently Madouas finishing 3rd in Flanders has zapped him towards "contender" status, while the same does not appear to be the case for Hermans finishing 2nd in Liège?

Big mistake by the coach to leave Teuns at home though, because he would be a lot better on this course than for instance Lampaert or Stuyven. Someone who could go in an earlier break as a viable option while the big two don't have to chase in the bunch.

 

[Berniece]

I find it hard to see either of them winning.
Belgium is very much going down the two cards plan this year as opposed to last year's supreme leader toss.
Meanwhile France have at least four cards to play and it'll be tough chasing them all down.
And then there's Pog and MvdP to shake off.

Pretty sure that when Evenepoel isn't able to ride away after 2-3 attacks, he'll just ride for Van Aert. Then it's a sprint between Wout, Pogacar and MVDP. The Netherlands and Slovenia just need to make the race as hard as possible if they want to win a sprint against Van Aert.

Also a very real situation is that some random rider will attack after the top favourites went for 3-4 times, and no one wants to close the gap. That guy will win.

Although I would prefer a Strade Bianchi 2021 situation where you just have the 6-8 top favourites against each other. But the race won't be hard enough, I think.

 

[hayneplane]

France has 4 cards? That's as much true as saying France has 0 cards. They have options, like many other countries. Apparently Madouas finishing 3rd in Flanders has zapped him towards "contender" status, while the same does not appear to be the case for Hermans finishing 2nd in Liège?

Big mistake by the coach to leave Teuns at home though, because he would be a lot better on this course than for instance Lampaert or Stuyven. Someone who could go in an earlier break as a viable option while the big two don't have to chase in the bunch.

Stuyven is useful as proven over a long race though I don’t t think Lampaert will be able to do much in the last 100km.

Teuns I presumed was held back by IPT to help get points to fight relegation and as a bargaining point in his move probably got a bigger salary in exchange for skipping the Worlds.

In Hermans vs Cosnefroy it comes down to it being very different being an extra option if your team is not expected to control the race such as GB with Pidcock/Hayter/Wright and the French given Alaphillipe injured compared to Belgium and Holland expected to marshal the peloton.

 

[Ricco']

Teuns I presumed was held back by IPT to help get points to fight relegation and as a bargaining point in his move probably got a bigger salary in exchange for skipping the Worlds.

I don't think so. The news that came out after Belgium announced their selection had Teuns saying that in May the national coach talked to him and said that his selection was a certainty after a strong spring only to tell him again later that he didn't apply for the necessities of the two leaders of the team.

Ontgoocheling bij Dylan Teuns na niet-selectie voor WK: “Geen rekening mee gehouden”

De Belgische bondscoach Sven Vanthourenhout presenteerde dinsdag zijn definitieve selectie voor het komende WK wielrennen in het Australische Wollongong. Een opvallende afwezige in de ploeg is Dylan Teuns. "Hier had ik geen rekening mee gehouden", was de ontgoocheling bij de 30-jarige coureur groot.

www.wielerflits.be

 

[peterfin]

My bet is on MVDP. I will tell you the exact scenario: after a skirmish of attacks by the smaller teams, Evenepoel will attack 40-50 km from the finish but the French, Italians, Dutch and Slovenians will chase him down depleting most of their riders. After 20-30 km he is back in a lead group of about 10 riders and he will then ride for WVA. Much closer to the finish Pogacar will attack with only MVDP and WVA in his wheel. With a 30-40 sec lead they have time to slow down and watch each other prior to sprinting. When the sprint finally starts Van Aert remembers that he is better in a sprint at higher speed and loses the sprint again to MVDP who edges out both. WVA of couse manages to become second and gets another silver medal to his pile.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

My bet is on MVDP. I will tell you the exact scenario: after a skirmish of attacks by the smaller teams, Evenepoel will attack 40-50 km from the finish but the French, Italians, Dutch and Slovenians will chase him down depleting most of their riders. After 20-30 km he is back in a lead group of about 10 riders and he will then ride for WVA. Much closer to the finish Pogacar will attack with only MVDP and WVA in his wheel. With a 30-40 sec lead they have time to slow down and watch each other prior to sprinting. When the sprint finally starts Van Aert remembers that he is better in a sprint at higher speed and loses the sprint again to MVDP who edges out both. WVA of couse manages to become second and gets another silver medal to his pile.

Don't forget that Pogi will be so engaged in sprinting tactics against Vans that he will end up out of top10.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

France has 4 cards? That's as much true as saying France has 0 cards. They have options, like many other countries. Apparently Madouas finishing 3rd in Flanders has zapped him towards "contender" status, while the same does not appear to be the case for Hermans finishing 2nd in Liège?

Big mistake by the coach to leave Teuns at home though, because he would be a lot better on this course than for instance Lampaert or Stuyven. Someone who could go in an earlier break as a viable option while the big two don't have to chase in the bunch.

Cards/options = same kind of thing. My point is that the others teams have only two Belgians to look out for and as you say a Teuns would have given an outside option that would tire out the other team's doms. France still have a few danger men though.