Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[SHAD0W93]

Forgot about it, belongs more towards the bottom of the list just like podium in the biggest one day races.

TdS is at the least on the same level as the other stage races, and should be by CdD honestly. That’s way too much of a disservice to have it that low.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yes, but the Olympic RR used to be an amateur event and thus does not have the pedigree as Worlds (in cycling). Yet now they are probably equally prestigious on the day, but the Rainbow Jersey in cycling means more, as the wearer is a point of reference for an entire season. Although, for the athletes, as Bettini put it, the intercollegate and global aspects, have now made by he Olympic RR a huge deal, even if only cycling fans will watch it.

The Olympic winner is called that for 4 years and after compared to former Worlds or monument winner sometimes being forgotten the years after they won.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Which is y I specifically said: “I am aware that riders target it…”

As @Extinction pointed out Olympics simply do not have the history and tradition within pro cycling. That is a simple fact. The Worlds Champ wears a specific jersey for an entire year. For the Olympics, the rider has to be provided with a golden helmet or bike by their sponsor as a gimmick. How many pro cycling Olympics have there been? 7-8? All in recent times so…

Meaningless to me anyway.

And they get to be called the Olympic champion and referenced as the former champion for years vs Worlds or monument winners being forgotten unless it’s in that race. Samuel Sanchez was being called the former Olympic champion all the way to his last year.

 

[houtdffan]

Yes, but the Worlds is very close to Giro and Vuelta

Which is why I put it between the Giro/Vuelta and the monuments and the big 4 week long stage races

 

[Extinction]

The Olympic winner is called that for 4 years and after compared to former Worlds or monument winner sometimes being forgotten the years after they won.

Yea, even I don't pay attention to the 4-year aspect, when we have another Rainbow Jersey each season.

 

[Big Doopie]

And they get to be called the Olympic champion and referenced as the former champion for years vs Worlds or monument winners being forgotten unless it’s in that race. Samuel Sanchez was being called the former Olympic champion all the way to his last year.

it is likely that we simply come at from different generations. in the history of cycling the olympics is meaningless unless you are perhaps talking of track. maybe it's if you started following cycling in the past two decades. no matter how much the olympics may have in general athletic tradition, the cycling road race is relatively new in including pros, is like a subsidiary event in the event itself, the olympic road race is not cycling, it is simply not in the tradition of cycling and that is why I say it is meaningless. For example, San Sebastian and Strade mean more.

It's like saying that a pro footballer dreams of an Olympic medal... uh, nope.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yea, even I don't pay attention to the 4-year aspect, when we have another Rainbow Jersey each season.

Just because you don’t pay attention to it doesn’t mean the rider doesn’t get hyped up in every single race they enter for the rest of their career. Versus someone who has won a monument or Worlds and it rarely gets brought up by commentators.

it is likely that we simply come at from different generations. in the history of cycling the olympics is meaningless unless you are perhaps talking of track. maybe it's if you started following cycling in the past two decades. no matter how much the olympics may have in general athletic tradition, the cycling road race is relatively new in including pros, is like a subsidiary event in the event itself, the olympic road race is not cycling, it is simply not in the tradition of cycling and that is why I say it is meaningless. For example, San Sebastian and Strade mean more.

It's like saying that a pro footballer dreams of an Olympic medal... uh, nope.

That’s why so many riders didn’t make the Olympics one of their goal. Just because it’s new since 1996 doesn’t mean it isn’t a big deal. Uran got huge fame in Columbia from his medal, even more so than his GT and monument podiums.

 

[tobydawq]

it is likely that we simply come at from different generations. in the history of cycling the olympics is meaningless unless you are perhaps talking of track. maybe it's if you started following cycling in the past two decades. no matter how much the olympics may have in general athletic tradition, the cycling road race is relatively new in including pros, is like a subsidiary event in the event itself, the olympic road race is not cycling, it is simply not in the tradition of cycling and that is why I say it is meaningless. For example, San Sebastian and Strade mean more.

It's like saying that a pro footballer dreams of an Olympic medal... uh, nope.

No, it's not the same as football. At all.

It's not meaningless if all riders with a chance target it

 

[Oldermanish]

The Olympic winner is called that for 4 years and after compared to former Worlds or monument winner sometimes being forgotten the years after they won.

Not too many bike racers call the Olympic Champ, I'd guess. They all would point out the Dude that won Roubaix to teammates, though. Peer credentials mean alot to serious competitors as opposed to the lottery that can be the Olympics. Didn't Tyler Hamilton have a medal for a minute?

 

[tobydawq]

Not too many bike racers call the Olympic Champ, I'd guess. They all would point out the Dude that won Roubaix to teammates, though. Peer credentials mean alot to serious competitors as opposed to the lottery that can be the Olympics. Didn't Tyler Hamilton have a medal for a minute?

A lottery?

 

[Extinction]

Just because you don’t pay attention to it doesn’t mean the rider doesn’t get hyped up in every single race they enter for the rest of their career. Versus someone who has won a monument or Worlds and it rarely gets brought up by commentators..

I don't know which cycling you've been watching, but any ex-world champion or monument winner in a race is great publicity for that race.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I don't know which cycling you've been watching, but any ex-world champion or monument winner in a race is great publicity for that race.

The same cycling you are, if a one time winner of all three is present the Olympic champion gets the bigger attention. At least in the US. They don’t care if Develdor or Zaugg are on the start list.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Not too many bike racers call the Olympic Champ, I'd guess. They all would point out the Dude that won Roubaix to teammates, though. Peer credentials mean alot to serious competitors as opposed to the lottery that can be the Olympics. Didn't Tyler Hamilton have a medal for a minute?

Just like people have been saying the monuments and Worlds are a lottery?

 

[Extinction]

The same cycling you are, if a one time winner of all three is present the Olympic champion gets the bigger attention. At least in the US. They don’t care if Develdor or Zaugg are on the start list.

No, they don't. The US relates to an Olympic champion, but not a Develdor or a Zaugg, who they could not care less about, because it knows not cycling. We are talking about epic and historical races versus something that came relatively late into significance, however important to the speculative interests. And, no offense, but the US is not a broad-based, grass roots cycling audience historically connected, while its different perspective on the Olympics is a product of the Cold (now Hot) War rivalry legacy, which explains the excessive attention given the Olympic champion that's out of proportion with European views.

It's been this way since Lemond, who wanted Olympic Gold at the boycotted Moscow games, in a way European cyclists at the time didn't (or at least did not see the Olympic RR, then a non-pro event, as being as significant to a cyclist's career). And while the Olympic RR has assumed greater prestige since becoming a pro event in 1996, in Europe it's not more important than the monuments or Worlds. So I can't agree with you here. I think in terms of perspective on such matters, Europe's has more gravity than that of the US.

 

[Big Doopie]

…At least in the US.

And there is what I suspected. The USA is not steeped in cycling lore. And in the USA the Olympics is something the general populace understands. Lemond going into his career knew there were only certain races that would provide any notoriety at all:

The TDF
The Worlds
The Olympics (he was denied by the 1980 boycott)

Nothing else would matter.

No. The Olympic road race is not anywhere close in significance to cycling as the monuments or Worlds. For that matter, I only remember two “famous” pros who won it as an amateur, Kuiper and Grewal. Kuiper is much better known for his pro successes. And Grewal likely not because the Olympics were kind of the biggest thing he ever did, his pro career was largely free of any real successes.

And since pros competed, there is no history. Meanwhile I know and remember monument and Worlds winners for decades…

 

[Extinction]

And there is what I suspected. The USA is not steeped in cycling lore. And in the USA the Olympics is something the general populace understands. Lemond going into his career knew there were only certain races that would provide any notoriety at all:

The TDF
The Worlds
The Olympics (he was denied by the 1980 boycott)

Nothing else would matter.

No. The Olympic road race is not anywhere close in significance to cycling as the monuments or Worlds.

European cycling realizes the cosmopolitan platform the Olympics give to the sport is of global importance. However, the Olympics fall outside the traditional Euro-pro patrimony, but not for this is its marketing value less relevant. And it seems the sponsors think likewise.

 

[tobydawq]

And there is what I suspected. The USA is not steeped in cycling lore. And in the USA the Olympics is something the general populace understands. Lemond going into his career knew there were only certain races that would provide any notoriety at all:

The TDF
The Worlds
The Olympics (he was denied by the 1980 boycott)

Nothing else would matter.

No. The Olympic road race is not anywhere close in significance to cycling as the monuments or Worlds. For that matter, I only remember two “famous” pros who won it as an amateur, Kuiper and Grewal. Kuiper is much better known for his pro successes. And Grewal likely not because the Olympics were kind of the biggest thing he ever did, his pro career was largely free of any real successes.

And since pros competed, there is no history. Meanwhile I know and remember monument and Worlds winners for decades…

Your inability to remember the Olympic winners have zero relevance in the matter.

The importance of races can only be assessed by looking at what they mean to the current riders. And everybody will make the Olympics a target if they have a chance to win.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I would like to know from current riders how they actually feel about the Olympics compared to other races. Whether they rate it as high or higher than a WCC for instance. Considering cycling has only been an Olympic sport since recent times, it doesn't have the history, there are no epic names like Merckx or Coppi on the list. With a winner only every 4 years, it also doesn't feel really relevant to the sport itself.

On the other hand, the Olympics transcend every sport in itself, and it is a chance to be part of something bigger than just cycling. For sure, there is a vast history of great Olympic champions (just not in cycling) so it would still be great to be part of that. But whether it is rated higher in the peloton than winning a WCC, a monument let alone a GT, i kind of doubt that.

 

[Bolder]

I would like to know from current riders how they actually feel about the Olympics compared to other races. Whether they rate it as high or higher than a WCC for instance. Considering cycling has only been an Olympic sport since recent times, it doesn't have the history, there are no epic names like Merckx or Coppi on the list. With a winner only every 4 years, it also doesn't feel really relevant to the sport itself.

On the other hand, the Olympics transcend every sport in itself, and it is a chance to be part of something bigger than just cycling. For sure, there is a vast history of great Olympic champions (just not in cycling) so it would still be great to be part of that. But whether it is rated higher in the peloton than winning a WCC, a monument let alone a GT, i kind of doubt that.

Here's one test: If you are a world class one-day rider, which is worse for your palmares: To be missing an Olympic gold, or to be missing a monument? I'd argue the latter looks worse. That's not a totally fair comparison, as the Olympics only come around once every four years. But even in an Olympic year, the gold medal winner is at best on par with the WC/Monuments.

And for certain countries, yes, winning a gold medal is way better than any one-day race and maybe even better than a GT. I'm sure Carapaz is much better known in Ecuador for winning a gold medal than winning the Giro. But in France or Belgium, if you won P-R and a gold medal, you'd be known as the P-R winner....

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Here's one test: If you are a world class one-day rider, which is worse for your palmares: To be missing an Olympic gold, or to be missing a monument? I'd argue the latter looks worse. That's not a totally fair comparison, as the Olympics only come around once every four years. But even in an Olympic year, the gold medal winner is at best on par with the WC/Monuments.

And for certain countries, yes, winning a gold medal is way better than any one-day race and maybe even better than a GT. I'm sure Carapaz is much better known in Ecuador for winning a gold medal than winning the Giro. But in France or Belgium, if you won P-R and a gold medal, you'd be known as the P-R winner....

It can also depend on the quality of the race and how memorable it was, I think this is quite a subjective discussion.

GVA 2 biggest wins are Paris Roubaix and Olympic RR. His Roubaix win was quite boring, Rio was quite a good race. So overall he might be remembered by a lot of people as Olympic champion.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I think a factor to consider is that most kids probably dream about the Olympics before they start dreaming about specific cycling races. Just because most kids are exposed to Olympics long before they decide which sport they will try to become good at.

 

[Extinction]

Here's one test: If you are a world class one-day rider, which is worse for your palmares: To be missing an Olympic gold, or to be missing a monument? I'd argue the latter looks worse. That's not a totally fair comparison, as the Olympics only come around once every four years. But even in an Olympic year, the gold medal winner is at best on par with the WC/Monuments.

And for certain countries, yes, winning a gold medal is way better than any one-day race and maybe even better than a GT. I'm sure Carapaz is much better known in Ecuador for winning a gold medal than winning the Giro. But in France or Belgium, if you won P-R and a gold medal, you'd be known as the P-R winner....

I think we need to consider the history of the modern Olympics, which, inspired by the ancient games, came into existance in 1896, before athletes for all intents and purposes were paid professionals, the ideal at the time. Pro cycling thus came late into the Olympic scene, with its own history and traditions and the consequences for prestige it presupposes.

 

[Salvarani]

it is likely that we simply come at from different generations. in the history of cycling the olympics is meaningless unless you are perhaps talking of track. maybe it's if you started following cycling in the past two decades. no matter how much the olympics may have in general athletic tradition, the cycling road race is relatively new in including pros, is like a subsidiary event in the event itself, the olympic road race is not cycling, it is simply not in the tradition of cycling and that is why I say it is meaningless. For example, San Sebastian and Strade mean more.

It's like saying that a pro footballer dreams of an Olympic medal... uh, nope.

In the history of cycling an Olympic Gold is not the greatest thing you can win, but an Olympic Gold is still an Olympic Gold. It is a huge thing to win it.

Cycling is one of the oldest sports, even for the olympics. It was part of the very first international Olympics in 1896.

So to say "it is simply not in the tradition of cycling" is false.

In my country it was a big thing when Bernt Johansson won the gold medal in Montreal in 1976, back when only amateurs could ride it. He then went on to become pro and had a pretty good career.

When Carapaz won the gold medal in 2022 it was only the third gold medal in the history of the Olympics for Ecuador. 5th medal ever for them. Im sure it meant a lot.

Perhaps some other races are more prestigious, but it is not a nothing race and riders wants to win it. Maybe more for their country, than for themselves. Even though a gold medal is great for future sponsorships and for when your career is done. You can live off being an olympian champion for the rest of your life.

And football in the Olympics not meaning anything? I know myself and most of my country were gutted when the womens team lost the final on penalties in the last Olympics. The players did seem to care a lot. Again, when it comes to the Olympics I dont think it just an individual achievement. We are all proud when someone wins something. At least us smaller populated countries.

 

[Big Doopie]

Your inability to remember the Olympic winners have zero relevance in the matter.

The importance of races can only be assessed by looking at what they mean to the current riders. And everybody will make the Olympics a target if they have a chance to win.

It would really help if you read my original post that specifically states that I am aware that riders aim for the Olympics now. But I guess people want to argue what they want to argue.

It’s like saying GP Plouay or San Sebastián or Strade or another recent race is as important as a monument or the Worlds. They are not. At least not yet. And arguably will never be unless they go to 260-270 kms.

In cycling tradition, lore and history the Olympic road race is simply not established like a monument and worlds.

 

[Big Doopie]

And football in the Olympics not meaning anything? I know myself and most of my country were gutted when the womens team lost the final on penalties in the last Olympics. The players did seem to care a lot. Again, when it comes to the Olympics I dont think it just an individual achievement. We are all proud when someone wins something. At least us smaller populated countries.

Lol Olympics for WOMEN’s football has ALWAYS been one of THE most important competitions because it was perhaps the greatest venue in the history of that sport.

Please tell me a pro mens footballer who wants to win the Olympics over the champions league or the worlds.

Lol. Thank you for proving my PRECISE point.