Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Because I find it annoying that he makes such claims, not only because he evidently has little regard for Evenepoel, but to basically make an excuse for not being a winner. Just say I lost to a better rider, without implying through further qualification that everyone else would bow down before the royals like himself.

Maybe acknowledging Evenepoel is still a sensitive matter, if not for himself, then for his fanbase.

 

[houtdffan]

Bet the 2023 Tour will have more minutes of ITT than the Vuelta Evenepoel won. Realistically I think the mountain stages of the 2023 Tour are actually better for him than those in most Tours. The Tour also hasn't had more than 60km of ITT since 2013, and only has had it twice since 2008.

I can only think of one Tour catering to a foreign rider and noone wants to see a 2012 route again.

2012 sucked because the riders largely sucked wheel in the mountains. Today's peloton actually races. We'd likely see epic mountain stages

 

[BR2]

Because I find it annoying that he makes such claims, not only because he evidently has little regard for Evenepoel, but to basically make an excuse for not being a winner. Just say I lost to a better rider and leave it at that, without implying through further qualification that everyone else would bow down before those royals like himself.

It seems as if Almeida still thinks even he is better than Evenepoel, which is patently absurd.

With everything that Roglic has won it's totally fine to see Roglic as the second best rider after Pogacar. All of that might change when Evenepoel smashes things at the GTs this year, but at this point it's all fair and natural. From the hierarchy perspective I don't see Evenepoel on the same level yet, either.

 

[Extinction]

Maybe acknowledging Evenepoel is still a sensitive matter, if not for himself, then for his fanbase.

Of course it is. I think he harbor's resentment towards the Belgian and, now on team-Pogacar, takes it out in a rather devious manner.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

With everything that Roglic has won it's totally fine to see Roglic as the second best rider after Pogacar. All of that might change when Evenepoel smashes things at the GTs this year, but at this point it's all fair and natural. From the hierarchy perspective I don't see Evenepoel on the same level yet, either.

The only reason why Roglic has a better palmares, is not because he is a better rider. It's because he's been riding longer. If you start looking at wins per race day, or points per race day, you would see Roglic is not a better rider. Also, Roglic's biggest wins, are both races Evenepoel already won at the age of 22. On the other hand, Roglic has never won a WCC and Evenepoel has.

 

[Extinction]

With everything that Roglic has won it's totally fine to see Roglic as the second best rider after Pogacar. All of that might change when Evenepoel smashes things at the GTs this year, but at this point it's all fair and natural. From the hierarchy perspective I don't see Evenepoel on the same level yet, either.

With all due respect to Roglic, I don't think Evenepoel is inferior to him. Winning Liege-Vuelta-Worlds in the same year in the manner in which Remco did and at his age, seems valid proof that he is not.

At any rate, this year's Giro, one way or another, will clarify the matter further. And should Remco win Almeida will again look like an ass as he did when pronouncing that Pogacar was unbeatable. Should he lose, I guess I'll be eating my words.

 

[Netserk]

Another argument is the date of the Worlds. Combining Tour and Worlds this year isn't an easy one. That's certainly part of the decision as well.

As we saw in Tokyo, the Giro is not better prep than the Tour.

 

[BR2]

I don't mean to say Roglic is actually the better rider - I'm not that much into these comparisons anyway - but that his reputation at this point his higher, yes, due to the things he has won and dominated due to his racing for some years now.

Personally I would probably say van Aert is the second best rider after Pogacar, but I understand that people look at Palmares first and foremost.

 

[Extinction]

I think

I don't mean to say Roglic is actually the better rider - I'm not that much into these comparisons anyway - but that his reputation at this point his higher, yes, due to the things he has won and dominated due to his racing for some years now.

Personally I would probably say van Aert is the second best rider after Pogacar, but I understand that people look at Palmares first and foremost.

I think for his age and feats, Remco's palmarès is no less impressive. Roglic's palmarès, unless he wins the Tour, unfortunately will be most remembered in the future for losing the 2020 Tour on the penultimate day. Wout, as strong as he is, cannot win grand tours, so how can he be better than those who can win monuments and GTs?

At any rate, the original point was that Almeida, indirectly and in a passive way slights Evenepoel.

 

[BR2]

I think

I think for his age and feats, Remco's palmarès is no less impressive. Roglic's palmarès, unless he wins the Tour, unfortunately will be most remembered in the future for losing the 2020 Tour on the penultimate day. Wout, as strong as he is, cannot win grand tours, so how can he be better than those who can win monuments and GTs?

At any rate, the original point was that Almeida, indirectly and in a passive way slights Evenepoel.

You might just as well say he slighted Vingegaard. After all that is the current Tour winner.
I'd say give Wout the right route and the support and he has a chance to win a GT.

I don't want to start these discussions about what if again, though. In my opinion that just wasn't any insult, however minor or passive, to Evenepoel.

 

[Venge 82]

I don't like comparing riders and especially not when they are different types of riders. I am a fan of Remco (and also, but to a slightly lesser extent of Wout), but there are so many interesting riders today that we as cycling fans are spoiled. We can easily list 10 riders who make it worth watching racing and who dare to make the race. As well Roglic, Pogacar, Vingegaard, Remco, Wout, Mathieu, Pidcock,... are part of that elite group of riders.

And their sense of honour also makes them want to achieve victories in more spectacular ways. This is precisely why good coaching is important and proper planning of their goals and careers or they all ride themselves to pieces.

 

[Extinction]

You might just as well say he slighted Vingegaard. After all that is the current Tour winner.
I'd say give Wout the right route and the support and he has a chance to win a GT.

I don't want to start these discussions about what if again, though. In my opinion that just wasn't any insult, however minor or passive, to Evenepoel.

You neglect (and underestimate I think) the fact that Almeida was imbittered over having to support Evenepoel at the 2021, when the latter was not at his best, for which I think he ignores Evenepoel in the equasion. Whilst he's got no reason to mention Wout, because he's not competitive against Pogacar on the world's biggest cycling stage in July so he has no reason to consider him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't like comparing riders and especially not when they are different types of riders. I am a fan of Remco (and also, but to a slightly lesser extent of Wout), but there are so many interesting riders today that we as cycling fans are spoiled. We can easily list 10 riders who make it worth watching racing and who dare to make the race. As well Roglic, Pogacar, Vingegaard, Remco, Wout, Mathieu, Pidcock,... are part of that elite group of riders.

And their sense of honour also makes them want to achieve victories in more spectacular ways. This is precisely why good coaching is important and proper planning of their goals and careers or they all ride themselves to pieces.

Sorry, I like Rog because he seems a really nice guy but as a rider, he is a negative rider. 99% of times, he rides like a mountain sprinter, just like Valverde in his golden years.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

To the bolded, he's actually done 2, but didn't finish the first for the known reason.

It's also wise to forego the Tour this your, because the route is ill-suited to his strengths. I fear this may be the case over the next years, however, because France's hopes can't TT.

On a side note, I found Almeida's recent comment on losing to Roglic in yesterday's TA stage somewhat annoying. He said there's no shame in losing to Primoz, because, after Pogacar, who he had described as "unbeatable" (to only then get beaten by Vingegaard at the Tour), he is the best rider in the world. Now I'm not saying at the moment Evenepoel is better, but Almeida snobs the Belgian, perhaps embittered over having had to work for Remco before the latter was properly prepared during his comeback from the Lombardia fall at the 2021 Giro. Whatever the case, Almeida's opinion is in striking contrast with Valverde's on Evenpoel's quality.

Almeida, moreover, seems to only consider Evenepoel from his post-trama/recovery stature and not the one who in Lombardia-San Sebastion-Worlds gave everyone, including Pogacar, a master class on hammer-down solo victory, or the Remco who won the Vuelta, a race which he utterly dominated, except for the effects of a hard crash mid-race.

The Giro in May will tell us more if Roglic indeed is "the best rider in the world after Pogacar."

As I said when you argued that Valverdes assessment was unimpeachable, you can’t really take what riders say for gospel. Various noticed, various biases, tendency to hyperbole, press pleasing, etc.

Sorry, I like Rog because he seems a really nice guy but as a rider, he is a negative rider. 99% of times, he rides like a mountain sprinter, just like Valverde in his golden years.

It doesn’t seem like you’ve followed him too closely. I think he’s racing that way not because he’s rebuilding his form. He had attacked on many occasions on highly varied terrain. Did you not see, for example, his epic attack and crash in the Vuelta?

 

[Extinction]

As I said when you argued that Valverdes assessment was unimpeachable, you can’t really take what riders say for gospel. Various noticed, various biases, tendency to hyperbole, press pleasing, etc.

In fact I don't put too much value in it, nor did I say Valverde's take was unimpeachable, but do consider what the likes of Valverde and Almeida say, because they should have inside knowledge and thus have some idea of what they are talking about. I thought Valverde's assessment was intruiging, not unimpeachable, presicely because I don't see what biases he would have towards Remco. Evenepoel's not Spanish and they never rode on the same team and became chums. By contrast, Almeida rode on QS with Evenepoel, but only a sub-optimal Remco coming back from serious injury, and then had a falling out with the team after the Giro in which he wasn't supported. That to me means he is holding a grudge.

 

[Lequack]

He took 5 minutes off of a record on the Tenerife climb to Teide. Giro win is inevitable.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He took 5 minutes off of a record on the Tenerife climb to Teide. Giro win is inevitable.

Yup, this was already discussed the last few pages.

 

[peterfin]

Seeing all the action is in PN and TA, his only pleasure on that volcano is to destroy the KOMs.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Sorry, I like Rog because he seems a really nice guy but as a rider, he is a negative rider. 99% of times, he rides like a mountain sprinter, just like Valverde in his golden years.

He is better looking tho.

 

[houtdffan]

Remco, Rog, and Pog all easily took care of business in their opening WT races

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Remco, Rog, and Pog all easily took care of business in their opening WT races

Yep, Pogacar set the bar early, and his peers have mostly followed suit. He’s clearly the early alpha, but Remco, Roglic, and Vingo (before facing Pogi) have all demonstrated that they’re still the cream of the crop.

 

[houtdffan]

Yep, Pogacar set the bar early, and his peers have mostly followed suit. He’s clearly the early alpha, but Remco, Roglic, and Vingo (before facing Pogi) have all demonstrated that they’re still the cream of the crop.

The scary thing is, Remco, I believe, had the largest margin of victory. Not even in form, but due to smart racing and using all terrain, not just the climbs

 

[Aimar16]

The main idea for Giro 2023 attempt was likely to avoid Rogla, Pogi and Jonas among others on a GT for now and because of being favorable to TT. To try and make it a bit easier for yourself.

Isn't he going to race the Giro because the organisers are paying him a lot of €€€ to participate? Just like they paid MvdP last year or Sagan before that.

 

[Venge 82]

Isn't he going to race the Giro because the organisers are paying him a lot of €€€ to participate? Just like they paid MvdP last year or Sagan before that.

I don't believe €€€ to be the driving force for this decision. Should money be the motive, Remco would not stay at SQS (Ineos can put "a bit" more on the table).
I have also heard that we should not overestimate those participation bonuses. ASO would not pay bonuses, RCS does.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't believe €€€ to be the driving force for this decision. Should money be the motive, Remco would not stay at SQS (Ineos can put "a bit" more on the table).
I have also heard that we should not overestimate those participation bonuses. ASO would not pay bonuses, RCS does.

Honestly never seen a number other than Froome getting like 1.5 million or something in 2018?

I can see it getting somewhat high if the Giro is desperate for a star rider. Like I don't think Mathieu van der Poel shows up for a few barrels of beer.