Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[peterfin]

He is a phenomenon no doubt about that. But about following the Pogacars’s curve… I don’t know about the PCS stats but Pogacar already had a TDF win at his age and was well on his way towards the second one in a couple of months time. That’s gotta count for something. If Remco goes to TDF next year and wins it (and that’s a very big if) he will have been almost 3 years behind Pogi when winning Tour for the first time. And even going with the PCS stats, I really doubt he follows Pogacars’s curve, who has been on top of the UCI for almost 3 years now…

Edit: I actually made a mistake. When Pogacar was Remco’s age, he has already won Tour 2 times not once. He was 3 time monument winner (vs 2) and he won one of the prestigious 7 week stage races two times. The only thing Remco has going for him is the WCC which does not even out the other stats…

The PCS system is well balanced so it is definitely valuable as a comparison. Pogacar has better overall results and may be better on multiple criteria but my point was that Remco is equally a phenomenon. For a TdF comparison he first need to ride a TdF. Remco also completed only 3 monuments sofar. His startlist of races is weaker than Pogacar, partly due to that major crash and partly due to management decisions but just looking at what he did race is enough to conclude he is a phenomenon in his own right.

 

[Bolder]

Apparently we are back in the comparison game. For anyone who do want a number on it, check the H2H PCS points on procyclingstats (to Tadej, Merckx, Girmai erc). Remco was on the steepest upward trajectory of any rider ever until covid started and he subsequently dipped after he dipped of that bridge. Meanwhile he is following Pogacar's curve and both are just slightly underneath of the untouchable Merckx. A similar comparison can be made when looking at the number of wins.

What makes his score and large number of wins at his young age even more remarkable is the fact that he has no real sprint. Until recently he couldn't win a sprint of 2! In a recent stat of km solo attacks since 2020 he had almost triple the number of anyone else. Because of his power of delivering results all alone and not needing the gamble of a sprint, he is also enormous efficient when it comes to delivering results when it matters. For example, he won medals on all NC, EC and WC ITT events he started (3x NC BSG, 2× EC GS and 3x WC SBB ). He has a 100% success rate in LBL and San Sebastian, 2 of his major goals. He was 2x a team leader in an EC and WC road race and he delivered (silver and gold).

So lets be clear, he is a phenomenon, no doubt about that! Betting against him in any race that he marked in his calendar is a big risk. He had a difficult 2021 after his crash, both physically and mentally, and he needed until early 2022 to be completely back on track but anyone who believes that he is overrated and overhyped is making a baseless claim.

^^See the bolded part. That's what makes him as good as anyone else in the current elite (which in my book is Pog, Mvdp, Remco, Roglic, Wout). That means that he can beat any one of them, too, if he targets the race -- and let's face it, those guys aren't "just riding around" any more.

Remco's 2022 season was as good as it gets, for anyone in the post-Merckx era.

Look, comparisons are fun. I only just realized, for example, that Fignon had won 2 TdFs before he turned 24. Not bad. He was 2nd in the Giro and won the Tour in the same year at age 23.

But we also know the worm can turn quickly. Last year's phenom is this year's Biniam Ghirmay, with zero results.

 

[wickedw]

Regarding what his schedule could/should be for the rest of the season. If they do finally send him to the Tour, then please not to ride lead outs for some damn sprinter. The amount of energy he has wasted in 1 week races doing lead outs for sprinters or alaphillipe is insane. No other gc rider does this. Imagine vingegaard doing a lead out for wva.. I mean he couldn't even if they wanted him to but still, the very idea of using such a rider like that is insane and typical of the mismanagement by SQS.

 

[Rackham]

Giro 2023: Thomas vindt het 'een beetje raar' dat Evenepoel opgaf vóór de rustdag

Geraint Thomas is de nieuwe leider in de Ronde van Italië, nadat Remco Evenepoel zondagavond opgaf na een positieve coronatest. Op de persconferentie van maandag reageerde Thomas al op het verdwijnen van Evenepoel uit de ronde. Nadien sprak hij er ook nog over tijdens Watts Occuring, een podcast...

www.wielerflits.nl

Thomas says apparently according to Evenepoel's entourage he's not doing the Tour.

 

[Valanga]

Regarding what his schedule could/should be for the rest of the season. If they do finally send him to the Tour, then please not to ride lead outs for some damn sprinter. The amount of energy he has wasted in 1 week races doing lead outs for sprinters or alaphillipe is insane. No other gc rider does this. Imagine vingegaard doing a lead out for wva.. I mean he couldn't even if they wanted him to but still, the very idea of using such a rider like that is insane and typical of the mismanagement by SQS.

There is no better place for acquiring the art of navigating within a fraught peloton than amidst the buildup to a sprint.
He can stop doing it now though ;-)

 

[Riek s]

This makes sense.
As a side what-if question, do you think he/they would also abandon in the same way (at the same time) if everything about him would be the same as it was (falling ill, testing positive after the TT), but he would not lose time on stage before and win the TT by 2min and be 3min ahead of everyone in the GC after the TT? (It's impossible scenario, we know he was not at his best because of (mostly) covid, but if somehow this result still happened)
In many other teams, I think he would probably stay (like Bystorm, who was also symptomatic), and try to see if recovery is possible, but I realize the Declerq experience might for example lead them to different decision.

In that case he wouldn't feel sick I assume? which would mean he either wouldn't test, or the test isn't positive, or its positive with low or high viral load.
I would assume in that last case they would wait for the restday and retest to figure out in what stadium he is. (beginning or end)
I imagine if they notice his viral load increases or he feels sick they would pull him out.

(of course that is all extreme speculation)

 

[Eyeballs Out]

No symptoms, makes sense.

Bystrom was certainly riding as if sick on saturday - somehow finished the stage when 3 others who dropped at the same time as him DNF

 

[Netserk]

So this is what was meant by routine testing:

Soudal-QuickStep said all the team’s riders and staff in Italy were tested for COVID-19 on Sunday as part of a pre-rest day routine. Evenepoel is the only part of the Soudal-QuickStep Giro expedition to have tested positive.

Lefevere defends Evenepoel after he leaves the Giro d’Italia due to COVID-19

Soudal-QuickStep manager tweets: ‘It’s not a 9-5 job’

sports.yahoo.com

 

[gregrowlerson]

Regarding the Tour or Vuelta question, I'd hope he rides one, but is this even necessarily the case? His season was designed around not racing either of the final two grand tours.....presumably neither worked well for his targets of the WC ITT and Lombardia, so why does that change now. He has already put a lot into nine days of racing at the Giro, and catching covid might roughly account for another twelve days of grand tour racing energy expenditure. Maybe just add the Dauphne or Swiss in (I'm assuming that neither were previously in his schedule)?

 

[Didinho]

Regarding the Tour or Vuelta question, I'd hope he rides one, but is this even necessarily the case? His season was designed around not racing either of the final two grand tours.....presumably neither worked well for his targets of the WC ITT and Lombardia, so why does that change now. He has already put a lot into nine days of racing at the Giro, and catching covid might roughly account for another twelve days of grand tour racing energy expenditure. Maybe just add the Dauphne or Swiss in (I'm assuming that neither were previously in his schedule)?

Yes I'm also thinking just stick to these 2 goals. Maybe add the Baloise Belgium Tour which passes 2 times in his hometown, if it wasn't already on his normal schedule.
The Tour isn't feasible I think. First getting better, you don't know how long it will take. Booking hotels and staff to go along. Which teammates could reschedule their plans to be with him on training. I think he only goes if he can have his run-up like the Vuelta last year, so he knows he's in good shape. Or you can test a different shorter training approach now for the Tour and see how it goes.
Vuelta is the better GT option, but maybe it interferes with his WC or Lombardia goal.

 

[Jagartrott]

Looking at today's weather, I doubt whether anyone with covid or another illness will be able to recover quickly in such conditions.

Flooding is predicted in parts of N-Italy, by the way (e.g. Bologna).

 

[repre]

No symptoms, makes sense.

Already out, as it should be

 

[CyclistAbi]

More withdrawals today due to Covid. Personally i feel that this issue wasn't taken seriously enough. Especially the fiasco in regards to gondola and helicopter. That was just beyond.

As for Evenepoel withdrawal. I fell it was the right call to make. I do believe that if the gap would be bigger they would wait another day. Before making the decision.

As for the Tour participation. Likely Evenepoel will wait for more TT kilometers, before participating. If it's a good thing for him. This imperative to win in the first attempt. Likely not. It's rather stupid. It might very well hurt his career a bit. Until he matures enough to snap out of it. We'll see. It's a race and you win some and you lose some.

It's a shame really. That lately the imperative to win GTs was pushed right down to teenagers. It's stupid. For such efforts a bit of an age is a good thing.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Before the Mohoric, Roglic, Pogacar generation, Slovenian cycling was at the level of local amateur races in the rest of Europe.

Actually i would rate the "Hvastja" generation, the one before the golden one, as mid tier one. I couldn't agree it was on an amateur level. Mostly used as doms, still good enough to make traction. And due to being good enough to stay in cycling after their careers. That enabled the penetration of top tier Slovenian cyclists into pro road peloton.

I rate him as one of the two best cyclists in the world, even if he doesn't excel at everything or if he isn't the (second) best at everything. He is a phenomenon.

I rate Roglič being slightly ahead too. This season really dominating so far.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for LR podcast. I enjoyed them mainly as some cycling trivia in the past years. And for race recaps and things like that. Why not. But this year i detected some bias. Like for example rating Rogla so low before the season. That just killed my desire to spend time watching such entertainment. Maybe again in the future. But this season i much rather just watch Rogla and that is good enough for me.

 

[saunaking]

Sven Erik Bystrom positive for Covid-19 but continues Giro d'Italia

With Remco Evenepoel testing positive and abandoning the Giro d'Italia, Covid-19 has rightfully been the main topic of the first rest day of the race. More fuel may be set to hit the fire however, as...

cyclinguptodate.com

Bystrom remaining in the Giro with covid

you were saying?

 

[Berflamand]

For what it's worth, SQS Team doctor Toon Cruyt has clarified the confusions about the 'routine' test.

Apparently Remco felt bad already the morning of the time trial but he didn't show the typical symptoms of a covid infection (blocked nose or sore throat) so they thought it might have been the effects of the crashes.

They were planning to do routine tests on the rest day and were only going to test riders outside of the rest day when showing symptoms.

After the TT however he felt and looked so bad that the doctor decided to do the tests already that evening.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Well, the curse of the rainbow jersey has struck again. The good news is that the world championships take place before the Vuelta this year, so he could go to the Vuelta without having to worry about the curse.

 

[Venge 82]

I truly hope he doesn't go to the Vuelta. We know he can win it.
I hope he can go to the TOUR if his recovery goes well. The team and Remco need to manage the expectations and clearly state they go for some stage hunting and no more than this.
No need to drastically change the team.

Remco can lose some time in the first stages to clearly underline he doesn't start with ambitions for the GC. Take some stages, have a taste about the biggest circus in cycling, check how you perform in some stages vs Pog and Vingegaard and in other stages just let go. Ideal prep for the worlds as well.

I know, no expectations and Remco in 1 and the same sentence... But, Remco shouldn't give a *** about it

 

[StryderHells]

Well, the curse of the rainbow jersey has struck again. The good news is that the world championships take place before the Vuelta this year, so he could go to the Vuelta without having to worry about the curse.

Not a bad curse considering he did win a monument, a couple of stages at Catalunya and the UAE Tour in the Rainbow stripes. Oh and 2 stages at this Giro.

 

[Berniece]

Remco can lose some time in the first stages to clearly underline he doesn't start with ambitions for the GC. Take some stages, have a taste about the biggest circus in cycling, check how you perform in some stages vs Pog and Vingegaard and in other stages just let go. Ideal prep for the worlds as well.

The problem is that the first few stages are very interesting for him

 

[jmdirt]

...and now Bystrom is out.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Giro 2023: Thomas vindt het 'een beetje raar' dat Evenepoel opgaf vóór de rustdag

Geraint Thomas is de nieuwe leider in de Ronde van Italië, nadat Remco Evenepoel zondagavond opgaf na een positieve coronatest. Op de persconferentie van maandag reageerde Thomas al op het verdwijnen van Evenepoel uit de ronde. Nadien sprak hij er ook nog over tijdens Watts Occuring, een podcast...

www.wielerflits.nl

Thomas says apparently according to Evenepoel's entourage he's not doing the Tour.

Klaas Lodewyck also said it would be impossible to do the Tour with this preparation. Seems a bit early to say imo. I would at least wait and see how he recovers before saying something like that.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I truly hope he doesn't go to the Vuelta. We know he can win it.
I hope he can go to the TOUR if his recovery goes well. The team and Remco need to manage the expectations and clearly state they go for some stage hunting and no more than this.
No need to drastically change the team.

Remco can lose some time in the first stages to clearly underline he doesn't start with ambitions for the GC. Take some stages, have a taste about the biggest circus in cycling, check how you perform in some stages vs Pog and Vingegaard and in other stages just let go. Ideal prep for the worlds as well.

I know, no expectations and Remco in 1 and the same sentence... But, Remco shouldn't give a *** about it

When guys like Pidcock and Roglic refuse to work with him because they know they would get dropped like a brick, who do you think is going to work with him when he goes for stages in the Tour? Why should that even be goal in itself for him?

The only way they should send him is if they think he has at least an outsider's chance to go for GC. And if he himself is content to let the WCC become an afterthought.

 

[dazaau]

I truly hope he doesn't go to the Vuelta. We know he can win it.
I hope he can go to the TOUR if his recovery goes well. The team and Remco need to manage the expectations and clearly state they go for some stage hunting and no more than this.
No need to drastically change the team.

Remco can lose some time in the first stages to clearly underline he doesn't start with ambitions for the GC. Take some stages, have a taste about the biggest circus in cycling, check how you perform in some stages vs Pog and Vingegaard and in other stages just let go. Ideal prep for the worlds as well.

I know, no expectations and Remco in 1 and the same sentence... But, Remco shouldn't give a *** about it

I don't know. Maybe the vuelta can be a rematch of an in form Remco and roglic that we have been deprived of at this giro.