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Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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As much as I hate it, I think Remco to Ineos is a no-brainer. This is Remco's 5th year at quickstep and winning gt's has been the goal ever since 2020, where he was supposed to do the Giro before his injury. And still, even now when he has already won a gt, they have a team completely inadequate for a gc rider. Like, who is QS 2nd best climber? Jan Hirt? Remco is supposed to go to the Tour fighting against Vingegaard and Pogacar with their super teams and relying on his last man Jan *** Hirt? A talent like him would be completely stupid to stay at a team giving him this kind of support.

Meanwhile Ineos has the capabilities to build a team that could compete with UAE and JV but they are lacking a gc leader who can compete with Pogacar and Vingegaard. You really just have to put two and two together.
Lefevere isnt gonna sell his golden goose
 
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As much as I hate it, I think Remco to Ineos is a no-brainer. This is Remco's 5th year at quickstep and winning gt's has been the goal ever since 2020, where he was supposed to do the Giro before his injury. And still, even now when he has already won a gt, they have a team completely inadequate for a gc rider. Like, who is QS 2nd best climber? Jan Hirt? Remco is supposed to go to the Tour fighting against Vingegaard and Pogacar with their super teams and relying on his last man Jan *** Hirt? A talent like him would be completely stupid to stay at a team giving him this kind of support.

Meanwhile Ineos has the capabilities to build a team that could compete with UAE and JV but they are lacking a gc leader who can compete with Pogacar and Vingegaard. You really just have to put two and two together.

I'd say Masnada and Hirt are comparable. Also, who did Pogacar have when he won his 2 TdFs? The luxury of Kuss is a bonus, of course, but not crucial. Finally, a shift to full GC takes a while to finetune. Add a rider or two, and they are set.

Remco is also emotionally invested in QS (a Belgian team, they stood behind him during his recovery, etc). And he is the 2nd best paid rider in the world.

Nothing will happen. Nothing should happen. Case closed.
 
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My subjective opinion is that apart from the Giro 2021 misstep, SQS has used him nearly perfectly. He's not over raced, over trained, thrown into situations where he won't succeed (although I still think he should have done the Tour this year over the Giro...).
Never thrown in situations where he won't succeed? You mean like putting him vs Pogacar and Vingegaard in Tirreno while weighing 67kg?

They have screwed the pooch on numerous occasions. They never took his lack of experience seriously, which inevitably led to him crashing hard sooner or later combined with his eagerness to perform. They did not supervise his injury close enough, letting a young, eager and inexperienced rider to set the pace of his own recovery, which led to his injury getting worse, his recovery taking longer and an entire year being wasted. They constantly set him up with a tactical nitwit. The plan in LBL had not changed after Pogacar crashed out. So the plan all along had been to attack on La Redoute and solo it home. Would have loved to see that happening with Pogacar there. I could go into a race per race screw up if you'd like too.
 
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Remco is also emotionally invested in QS (a Belgian team, they stood behind him during his recovery, etc). And he is the 2nd best paid rider in the world.

Emotionally invested, maybe. I would say it's misplaced. They stood by FJ, yet he is likely out of the door next season. He is definitely not the 2nd best paid rider in the world though. Not even close. He signed a deal way too early for way too long. He is likely around Alaphilippe in salary, with perhaps some bonus structures. It's not bad but it's not anywhere near his market value. Ineos would likely pay him double of what he earns now. They are also able to provide a team that is far superior to what SQS has to offer, or is willing to offer.

If one of the climbing doms falls away for sqs, they have nothing to offer. Jumbo can replace almost an entire team. If Remco is to stay at quick step they need to sign several domestiques this year. I don't think lefevere is willing to open up his wallet for it. He's more likely to cash in and then make a public spectacle about how he has been betrayed or something.
 
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I'd say Masnada and Hirt are comparable. Also, who did Pogacar have when he won his 2 TdFs? The luxury of Kuss is a bonus, of course, but not crucial. Finally, a shift to full GC takes a while to finetune. Add a rider or two, and they are set.

Remco is also emotionally invested in QS (a Belgian team, they stood behind him during his recovery, etc). And he is the 2nd best paid rider in the world.

Nothing will happen. Nothing should happen. Case closed.
Pogacar's team support at UAE being questionable isn't really the point though. You can't possibly argue they haven't at the very least spent a bunch of money on increasing the climbing depth of the squad.

Remco currently has the worst team support of any top tier GT contender since Dumoulin at Sunweb. Teams like Jayco/BikeExchange/Greenedge have managed to cobble together better support on smaller budgets than Quickstep, it's ultimately a matter of priorities. Seriously contending at the Tour would probably take a lot more than adding a rider or two to this team, that's for sure.
 
Remco currently has the worst team support of any top tier GT contender since Dumoulin at Sunweb. Teams like Jayco/BikeExchange/Greenedge have managed to cobble together better support on smaller budgets than Quickstep, it's ultimately a matter of priorities. Seriously contending at the Tour would probably take a lot more than adding a rider or two to this team, that's for sure.
Actually their A-team isn't that bad, you saw at LBL and also at Catalunya that they could control the race quite dominantly. Certainly stronger than the team with which Dumoulin won the Giro. From the last month we can't draw any conclusions. The only thing you could say is that the strongest domestique for Evenepoel, Van Wilder, would have been a bit weaker than those for Roglic and Thomas/Hart.
 
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Actually their A-team isn't that bad, you saw at LBL and also at Catalunya that they could control the race quite dominantly. Certainly stronger than the team with which Dumoulin won the Giro. From the last month we can't draw any conclusions. The only thing you could say is that the strongest domestique for Evenepoel, Van Wilder, would have been a bit weaker than those for Roglic and Thomas/Hart.
LBL and Catalunya aren't GTs, and Jumbo and Ineos can field several stronger support lineups than Quickstep's A team.
 
Actually their A-team isn't that bad, you saw at LBL and also at Catalunya that they could control the race quite dominantly. Certainly stronger than the team with which Dumoulin won the Giro. From the last month we can't draw any conclusions. The only thing you could say is that the strongest domestique for Evenepoel, Van Wilder, would have been a bit weaker than those for Roglic and Thomas/Hart.
Jumbo's C-team + Kuss was better than SQS.

Ineos had 3 guys much better than Van Wilder, and that's after their strongest leader crashed out.
 
Lol. Who's saying that?
Doesnt matter.

QS are a bit over the place with their squad atm.

Until they decide on what the future is strategy-wise they will be throwing things at the wall to see what sticks.

But for the "GC-squad" they probably need at least three new riders, imo. One being a very good domestic. Then they probably need to get rid of a couple of riders, who are not good enough or past it.
 
My subjective opinion is that apart from the Giro 2021 misstep, SQS has used him nearly perfectly. He's not over raced, over trained, thrown into situations where he won't succeed (although I still think he should have done the Tour this year over the Giro...). The Lombardia crash could have turned into a Dumoulin/Froome/Pinot debacle but he recovered fully.

Ineos on paper would be a great team for Remco -- can you imagine him huddling behind Ganna for 30 km toward the end of a medium mountain/transitional stage? He'd be pushing 75 watts...and Ineo's climbers (De Plus and Arensman) outperformed my expectations at the Giro.

From Ineos's side, they'd love to have a WC on the roster, and some of their GC hopefuls like Sivakov or Dani Martinez havn'et yet panned out (or are hurt). They'll likely lose C.Rod, too.

As for current riders, they know it's a business.
That's why it may make sense to a cash-driven Patrick to hold up Ineos and hold Remco out of any competition that's significant until he knows what he could be paid. Trying to build a Tour team will continue to cost him and, as you've said: it's a business. Everyone is for sale.
 
Jumbo's C-team + Kuss was better than SQS.

Ineos had 3 guys much better than Van Wilder, and that's after their strongest leader crashed out.
Quickstep had literally two guys left in the race. This isn't a benchmark.

I'm not saying Quickstep would have been the strongest team, of course they wouldn't have. But they would have been adequate. Lefevere is finding the transition from a cobbles team to a GC team quite hard (maybe because cobbles are a niche, relatively speaking... look at Pogacar who's just meddling in it and immediately is the strongest of them all) but they can still field a decent support team for Evenepoel. In the end it doesn't really matter anyway, as Ineos have so adequately shown by being the strongest team but still getting their a.ss kicked by Roglic.
 
Never thrown in situations where he won't succeed? You mean like putting him vs Pogacar and Vingegaard in Tirreno while weighing 67kg?

They have screwed the pooch on numerous occasions. They never took his lack of experience seriously, which inevitably led to him crashing hard sooner or later combined with his eagerness to perform. They did not supervise his injury close enough, letting a young, eager and inexperienced rider to set the pace of his own recovery, which led to his injury getting worse, his recovery taking longer and an entire year being wasted. They constantly set him up with a tactical nitwit. The plan in LBL had not changed after Pogacar crashed out. So the plan all along had been to attack on La Redoute and solo it home. Would have loved to see that happening with Pogacar there. I could go into a race per race screw up if you'd like too.
I'm sure you could🙂, but I think you are overreacting. Regarding LBL, there are a million what ifs, but hey, he won, right? Even if Pog could go with him, that's a 50 percent chance of winning...I'd back that strategy against the most versatile and successful rider in the peloton. Bottom line at QS: despite setbacks and living inside the Belgian cycling fish tank, Remco has more than hit his development targets, to say the least. And even experienced riders can have catastrophic crashes.
 
Funny how every failure seems to be the teams fault... And I still don't think sending him to the Giro in 21 was a mistake. His form was pretty good, he lacked the basis, but he got to experience of a GT, even if he then crashed out towards the end. But that experience certainly didn't hurt him in the Vuelta 22. And no, his 21 season after that wasn't as horrible as somehow it's made out to be now. He went on to win Belgium, Denmark, pull Colbrelli to the EC win, win Brussels, Bernocchi... nah, riding the Giro didn't hurt him. Only hurt the ego of his fans who had unrealistic expectations of him winning his first GT, riding his first race in 8 months or so. His form was good, he felt well and optimistic, put him in there and see what happens. He rode well, showed that he could be a GT rider in the future, had to take a day off on the Cortina stage, that was endurance missing after the time off, that was experience missing, his first GT. Would he have done better riding the Vuelta that year? Better result yes, winning, highly doubt it, it still would have been his first GT, he very likely would have run into similar, but less severe problems in the third week.

As for the team, with Van Wilder and Vansevenant they have at least 2 very decent riders, that can become better, not sure why Mauri seems to be completely dismissed here, he's had 2 decent seasons. Masnada in theory too, but he seems not to have recovered from whatever he had last year. Cattaneo after his excellent 2021 fallen of a cliff too. Knox on the other hand getting better again. Bagioli looks more like a future Ulissi than a real climber, but Ulissi as a helper is decent enough. Schmid the same, he can develop into a sort of Castroviejo/Amador/Kiryienka kind of rider. Hirt was a strange addition from the start, had a career season last year, sort of unlikely he can repeat that. They miss the top helper(s), yes, but the 2 Belgians surely can develop into that. 2 years ago I thought Van Wilder might fight for a podium in a GT around now, so far he's not developed well enough, but has had his career set back by DSM and crashes as well, so let's wait. Something like Schmid as early tempo rider in the mountains (if necessary), Bagioli next, Van Wilder and Mauri last, add Masnada/Cattaneo/Knox/Hirt if one of them shows signs of high quality, add Alaphilippe with freedom instead if it's the tour, plus 2 guys for the flat part, with Ilan and Mauri expected to improve, that's a pretty decent team. And for the Tour not more is needed anyway, since Jumbo/UAE can be expected to ride.

Ineos? Not completely sure it even makes sense from their point of view. They already have x riders that want to be GT leaders, Bernal, Martinez, Rodriguez, Tao, Arensman, Thomas maybe another year, Pidcock at some point. Add Plapp (don't really see that to be honest) and Tulett... Add Remco and some of these are out faster than Remco can say "hi". Especially guys like Rodriguez and Arensman, that looks set to be leaders in a GC very soon. Remco there? And he rightly would demand to be the number 1, not sure that works out well for the team strength in general. Yes, De Plus, Sivakov, Plapp, Tulett, Thomas stay, but Sivakov crashes out anyway, but riders like Rodriguez, Arensman, Tao would either demand to be leader in their own GT, or then leave. The Colombians depends a bit on how Bernal recovers and if Martinez ever comes out of his slump. Right now with Arensman and Rodriguez Ineos has 2 riders that can hope to reach the level necessary to compete vs Vingegaard/Pogacar/(Remco) at some point in the TdF, no guarantee they will, but they surely have to think they can, and the way they have to be riding Ineos has to have some trust in them too. Add Remco and.... Not sure they want to change the whole team without first knowing that their young guys won't challenge for the TdF.

UAE at some point will face the same problem with Pogacar-Ayuso-Almeida... especially Ayuso.

Remco staying put makes sense for both Remco, Lefevre and IMO in the end Ineos at this point. Revisit this in a year after the TdF if Arensman-Rodriguez aren't progressing, if Bernal never recovers from his injuries, if Tao has another off year (or doesn't recover well from the injury), and if Soudal Quick doesn't improve, meaning Van Wilder and Mauri getting better or another high quality climber joining the team.
 
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Not sure why that´s so funny, i think it´s quite accurate, They have plenty of guys for medium mountains. Who exactly was better at Jumbo besides Kuss? Dennis, Oomen, Hessmann? Surely not. Oh, this was Jumbo's C team? Then please tell me who they have in their A team. You think Benoot, Kruijswijk, Foss... are climbing better than Van Wilder and Hirt?
Jumbo have Kelderman and Kuss as top level mountain doms that are a level above. And they have Van Aert. If you ad one top level mountain domestique to Hirt and Van Wilder, and you put guys like Asgreen, Schmid... in the GT squad, you get a very competent team. Not Ineos or Jumbo A-team level, but good enough to get Evenepoel where he needs to be. Who were Pogacar's domestiques in 2020 and 2021? Formolo, Majka, McNulty...

Jumbo's C-team + Kuss was better than SQS.

Ineos had 3 guys much better than Van Wilder, and that's after their strongest leader crashed out.
Their strongest leader? Ok, based on...?

Ineos came with 5 guys that all could be leader in another race at another team. Yet none of them would've been strong enough to beat a fit/healthy Evenepoel and not even strong enough to beat a weak Roglic. Acting like they were all domestiques from the start is disingenuous. They threw whatever they had at the wall and hoped something would stick. Exactly because they do not have a super leader anymore. Other than De Plus in stage 19, i haven't seen many of them act as a domestique either. And while maybe 4 out of those 5 were stronger than Van Wilder, doesn't mean all that much. First of all, they weren't that much stronger looking at the last week, and second of all, both Arensman and De Plus (and i bet Sivakov would have as well, at best) got dropped nearly simultaneously. As soon as it was the top dogs duking it out, all those Ineos domestiques got dropped just the same. The only 2 domestiques in the Giro that actually made an impact as soon as it was mano a mano, were Vine and Kuss.

Van Wilder will continue to improve, they already have Hirt and adding one top level mountain dom makes a lot more sense than 2 or 3 cheaper riders. Guys for the flat and hilly stages, they have plenty. Say they managed to sign Vine or Kuss, and you had a team of Vine, Hirt, Van Wilder, Vervaeke, Schmid, Asgreen, Declerq, do you think that would be a laughable GT team? I don't. Then they have back-up options with Vansevenant, Lampaert, Serry, Cavagna... And if their Italians ever get in decent shape again, who knows even Cattaneo, Masnada and Bagioli. If Kuss crashed out, who 'd Roglic have left in a group of 15 guys? Nobody.