Ineos has no budget limit from what I see. Buying up riders is a good way to control your risk at the very least. That said, you couldn't cut loose a bunch of promising riders to gain Remco. Ineos wants to win the Tour. They don't have a surefire leader at this point.
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I realize that, but as we saw, the Giro, not to mention the Tour, is a different matter. Now if Remco's form in the opening TT, had he held it, were to have been the same climbing wise, then he could have won the Giro on his own. However, not having even one companion at the top of Gran Sasso, which wasn't even that hard, was unacceptable for a guy and a team that aspires to one day win the Tour de France. We saw how vital Kuss was in keeping Rog in the game. That's what you need when the going gets tough, but Soudal doesn't have a Kuss. And I think this Giro would have turned out differently, had Geoghegan Hart not fallen. Ineos would have owned the race otherwise, I think.
Van Wilder arrived at the same time at Gran Sasso
Right, my bad, but still he was wasn't usefull and the team was nowhere, so my point stands.
I agree that based on the performances in the first week, the team was nowhere. But I can’t make any predictions on how the third week would’ve went. Van Wilder wouldn’t be at Kuss level but basically Arensman/De Plus level, and it’s hard to predict how good Hirt would’ve been.
| # | Prev. | Diff. | Country | Points |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1 | - | Belgium | 19955.6 |
| 2 | 3 | ▲1 | France | 13382.1 |
| 3 | 6 | ▲3 | Denmark | 12855.9 |
| 4 | 4 | - | Slovenia | 12599 |
| 5 | 8 | ▲3 | Great Britain | 12182.4 |
| 6 | 10 | ▲4 | Italy | 9951.9 |
| 7 | 5 | ▼2 | Netherlands | 9921.6 |
| 8 | 2 | ▼6 | Spain | 9902.6 |
| 9 | 9 | - | Australia | 8261 |
| 10 | 7 | ▼3 | Colombia | 7780.3 |
UCI country Rankings. If the best cycling country in the world can't create a GT winner, it doesn't look good for the rest of them.
Yes but Belgium has a series production of one-day classics champions. Less risky and apparently more valuable for the local brick and mortar sponsor than starting GT investments.
That's because Don Patrick's team has been good enough to rack up the points, but not repeatedly win the Tour, which alone gives 70% of World Tour publicity and hence you need the mega-budget backing to win it, in the order of 30, 40 million euros. I wish it weren't so, because it does have distorting effect, the mega-budget teams basically taking the biggest prizes on outspending the poorer teams, but it's the way of things in a market driven world. Mine wasn't a dig on Belgium, mind you. It's the same for Italy. I just don't see Don Patrick getting that type of funding from Belgian corporations, which is what he needs to build a team around Remco to compete year in and year out at the Tour against the super teams Jumbo, Ineos and UAE.
PS: Now, if I were Remco, as Don Patrick always prizes himself for his no-nonsense straight talk, and how big his balls are said to be as a businessman; I would say, look, Patrick, of you can't find the funding to build me a team that can go head to head with those guys, then I'm going to one that can sooner than later.
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It's not the money that makes a Tour winning team. Of course it helps, but the current best GT team is not the richest (by far). And Jumbo is from the Netherlands, which isn't as cycling crazed as Belgium. But traditionally Jumbo have cared more about GC riding than about the classics, and I think that's where the difference lies. Lefevere has comfortably focused on the relative niche of cobbled classics for years, as well as bunch sprints and stage hunting. GC riding is a different ball game, which takes a whole different approach. Just look at Jumbo who can't quite get it together for the major classics, but who can dominate GTs.
Ah, but aren't the thrifty Dutch said to be the best spenders? At any rate, we're still talking about a budget in the order of 25 million. True, they have focused on being a GT team, which means it's possible for Soudal to convert, a process with Remco already under way. But they need to speed things up considerably, if the team's performance on the first real mountain of the Giro was any indication. And to do that, they need big funding. I mean, it's not as if they can rely only on a Jumbo's budget now to do it. Patrick needs an UAE type budget, if he's going to give Remco the team he needs for the next decade. Because in five years it will be too late. Either Remco will by then have gone elsewhere or not have achieved the results his talent likely warrents otherwise.
That's not gonna happen. Remco just needs to leave, and I don't even understand why he signed a contract for so long. And why is his father his manager? That's never a good idea, and definitely not when he has 0 experience. He has the best interest of Remco at heart, but he doesn't know how to handle such things. And that for a rider that was deemed the next Merckx. Patrick must have laughed when the father was handling all of it.
What about the history of the sport over the last 40 years at least does anything other than completely disprove this statement?
Considering Pat has previously trashtalked Contador for having his brother as his agent, I dont really doubt it
I can't but agree with you here. Patrick is a man that one must play hardball with. If he senses weakness, he goes for blood. This isn't to say, however, that deep down he doesn't have a heart somewhere. His taking Cavendish on (the cheap), when everyone thought he was done, demonstrates some humanity, or how he handled the recovery of a broken-faced sprinter is another. This is not just kind sentimentalism, however, but shrewdly driven by business interests. And his ostentatious display to stuff the Ineos affair is proof of it. He is a nude king. In Remco he has a rider he needs, more than the rider needs him. So I Hope Evenepoel's father pays a ruthless advisor to guide him through the negotiations for his son's career with Don Patrick. They need to tell Patrick to put up or shut up. Show me the money, baby! Or he goes to another team. It's as simple as that. It's what Patrick himself would do. Because if Remco's career continues on a less than stellar trajectory, then his market value goes down. I wouldn't want an Ineos in five years to get Remco on the cheap, as Patrick did Cavendish, who, after winning 4 stages and the Green Jersey at the Tour, wasn't even brought back to France the following year and ultimately let go.
In a world governed by business interests, there is little room for sentimental loyalties. It's what have you do for me lately! And Soudal, at least from what we saw in the Giro up until Remco's poorly orchestrated exit from the race, was decidedly not up to scratch.
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Probably, at this stage of his career, the latter. But were he to go to Ineos it would not matter. And, if it does, Radcliffe will take care of that.
Quite recently, the two Tours won by Pogacar weren't necessarily down to team strength. Especially the first one. He did use the strength of a team, but not his own.
I do agree, but I believe Jumbo Visma was overconfident and most probably underestimated Pog at that time. Won't happen again!
Honestly, for me Remco doesn't have to leave SQS, but only if PL can make sure they build a great team around Remco. Now, it's simply not good enough (good, but not good enough).
Another condition is that they stop overprotecting Remco (counterreaction after Lombardia? Bad experiences in the past with Frank VDB) and also allow him to participate not going for the win. On one hand they are overprotecting, on the other they put a tremendous pressure by only letting Remco start in races he can/must win...
As a Belgian, I would be very keen on seeing a young Belgian rider winning the TdF in a Belgian team. But not if this puts a brake on his career.
Another condition is that they stop overprotecting Remco (counterreaction after Lombardia? Bad experiences in the past with Frank VDB) and also allow him to participate not going for the win. On one hand they are overprotecting, on the other they put a tremendous pressure by only letting Remco start in races he can/must win...
As a Belgian, I would be very keen on seeing a young Belgian rider winning the TdF in a Belgian team. But not if this puts a brake on his career.
What is the cost for buying a rider out of their contract? Is this actually a realistic possibility?
Looks like someone is getting nervous...
Sky/Ineos have done it before. They 'bought' Wiggins from Vaughters. They and UAE are probably the only teams with the budget to do so, because of course Lefevere won't just let him go. Unless there's a clause in his contract that says he's free to go if there's an offer he can't refuse.
Article last week in BE newspaper (25/05/2023):
Het zit Lefevere zo hoog dat hij dinsdag rond de tafel zat met Remco Evenepoel en vader Patrick, tevens manager van zijn zoon. “Ik heb eerst Remco apart gesproken en ik heb gezegd dat die geruchten over Ineos moeten stoppen. Want dat zorgt alleen maar voor nervositeit bij de mensen. Daarna heb ik Patrick gevraagd om die geruchten op de een of andere manier de kop moeten indrukken.”
Bij Het Nieuwsblad bevestigt Patrick Evenepoel de Britse interesse van Ineos, al zegt hij ook dat er nog nooit een concreet bod is gekomen. Vader Evenepoel stelt bovendien dat hij ook al met andere ploegen, die op zoek zijn naar een potentiële rondewinnaar, gesproken heeft. “Praten kost geen geld. Weet wel dat Remco’s hart nog steeds bij Soudal – Quick-Step ligt. Zoals Romelu Lukaku’s hart bij Anderlecht ligt, maar hij speelt wel de finale van de Champions League met Inter Milan. Dat grote doel kon hij bij zijn lievelingsclub niet bereiken.”
Translation:
It bothers Lefevere so much that on Tuesday he sat around the table with Remco Evenepoel and father Patrick, who is also his son's manager. "I first spoke to Remco separately and I said that those rumours about Ineos have to stop. Because that only makes people nervous. Then I asked Patrick to somehow have to stop those rumours."
At Het Nieuwsblad, Patrick Evenepoel confirms Ineos' British interest, although he also says that no concrete offer has ever been made. Father Evenepoel also states that he has already spoken to other teams looking for a potential Tour winner as well. "Talking doesn't cost money. Just know that Remco's heart is still with Soudal - Quick-Step. Just as Romelu Lukaku's heart is with Anderlecht, but he is playing the Champions League final with Inter Milan. He couldn't achieve that big goal at his favourite club."
That's not really stopping the rumours...
Het zit Lefevere zo hoog dat hij dinsdag rond de tafel zat met Remco Evenepoel en vader Patrick, tevens manager van zijn zoon. “Ik heb eerst Remco apart gesproken en ik heb gezegd dat die geruchten over Ineos moeten stoppen. Want dat zorgt alleen maar voor nervositeit bij de mensen. Daarna heb ik Patrick gevraagd om die geruchten op de een of andere manier de kop moeten indrukken.”
Bij Het Nieuwsblad bevestigt Patrick Evenepoel de Britse interesse van Ineos, al zegt hij ook dat er nog nooit een concreet bod is gekomen. Vader Evenepoel stelt bovendien dat hij ook al met andere ploegen, die op zoek zijn naar een potentiële rondewinnaar, gesproken heeft. “Praten kost geen geld. Weet wel dat Remco’s hart nog steeds bij Soudal – Quick-Step ligt. Zoals Romelu Lukaku’s hart bij Anderlecht ligt, maar hij speelt wel de finale van de Champions League met Inter Milan. Dat grote doel kon hij bij zijn lievelingsclub niet bereiken.”
Translation:
It bothers Lefevere so much that on Tuesday he sat around the table with Remco Evenepoel and father Patrick, who is also his son's manager. "I first spoke to Remco separately and I said that those rumours about Ineos have to stop. Because that only makes people nervous. Then I asked Patrick to somehow have to stop those rumours."
At Het Nieuwsblad, Patrick Evenepoel confirms Ineos' British interest, although he also says that no concrete offer has ever been made. Father Evenepoel also states that he has already spoken to other teams looking for a potential Tour winner as well. "Talking doesn't cost money. Just know that Remco's heart is still with Soudal - Quick-Step. Just as Romelu Lukaku's heart is with Anderlecht, but he is playing the Champions League final with Inter Milan. He couldn't achieve that big goal at his favourite club."
That's not really stopping the rumours...
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