Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Andre]

Well, he is the best placed rider from all the favourites.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well, he is the best placed rider from all the favourites.

Second best placed rider of all the favourites.

 

[Oldermanish]

He doesn't seem worried at all after the stage

He's acting as if he's here to put on a show, not win a bike race

If that's truly the case he needs to determine if he's the warmup act of the show or the closer.

 

[frisenfruitig]

He probably would have lost less time if he didn't do that attack but I don't think it was that stupid to find out what he is currently capable of.
It's not like you know in advance "I'm going to ride x W/kg for x minutes and then get dropped". Sometimes it's not bad to just go for it and see what happens. It didn't even turn out that badly.

 

[Extinction]

He probably would have lost less time if he didn't do that attack but I don't think it was that stupid to find out what he is currently capable of.
It's not like you know in advance "I'm going to ride x W/kg for x minutes and then get dropped". Sometimes it's not bad to just go for it and see what happens. It didn't even turn out that badly.

There's a difference though between testing yourself in an insouciant manner and doing so with more calculated wisdom. And while it's true things didn't turn out that badly, which demonstrates his form is actually not that bad; the insistance, when it was clear he was only setting himself up to be dropped, was just dumb. It was like, dude, you're about to run into a brick wall if you don't change the course of action and you still go into it full steam ahead. Just stupid.

 

[theyoungest]

Really? So when Evenepoel isn't feeling great, and he does what Skjelmose did, just wheelsuck his way to glory, you'd start to like Evenepoel more? I would really like to see that because i don't believe it for a second.

Sure, if someone is stupid enough to ride to the finish with him on their wheel, why not?

I think we can agree that if he had played it a litte more smartly, he could have won this stage. He was no worse than any of the others and he probably has the best sprint. Surely as an Evenepoel fan you'd rather see him win than ride like Skjelmose's personal Sepp Kuss?

 

[Extinction]

Sure, if someone is stupid enough to ride to the finish with him on their wheel, why not?

I think we can agree that if he had played it a litte more smartly, he could have won this stage. He was no worse than any of the others and he probably has the best sprint. Surely as an Evenepoel fan you'd rather see him win than ride like Skjelmose's personal Sepp Kuss?

The thing is, they all knew he was going to initiate the fireworks, his team broadcasting as they did their plan by taking on the race from the bottom of the climb (but Soudal didn't even wittle the group down to a less numerous group when he "had to attack"). Yet this is where guile should have been implemented. Ride on the wheels. Keep teamates' powders dry for later help. See which teams and riders want to ride for victory. Make your adversaries question your state of form and intentions, then follow the one who throws the gauntlet down and wheelsuck, yes wheelsuck, just as Skjelmose and the other guy did to you. Wait, bide your time, and then if you are able strike closer to the line or resist till the finish and build form for the next day' battles. I wonder how Soudal went in with any other strategy than this?

 

[bNator]

I hope fans of certain riders realise there is more than either wheelsucking the entire time, and being so stupid to do all the work on your own. There is middle ground, it's called, taking turns.

No! Just wheelsucking or pulling. Taking turns is for pussies

 

[Berniece]

I wonder how Soudal went in with any other strategy than this?

I sometimes wonder if they have the proper people to think strategically about all possible scenarios. I have the feeling they can be very narrow-minded and too focused on a single solution to the problem of winning the race.

 

[frisenfruitig]

There's a difference though between testing yourself in an insouciant manner and doing so with more calculated wisdom. And while it's true things didn't turn out that badly, which demonstrates his form is actually not that bad; the insistance, when it was clear he was only setting himself up to be dropped, was just dumb. It was like, dude, you're about to run into a brick wall if you don't change the course of action and you still go into it full steam ahead. Just stupid.

But the approach you are describing is what often works for him though, it's not that dumb in that sense. You would think that he would be able to feel that if he maintained that pace he would bonk but I'm not sure if it is that easy to predict. I honestly don't mind he went for it. You win some, you lose some. It's just the TDS after all, this isn't some huge goal of the season where he can't afford to make mistakes.

 

[topcat]

Remco has obviously been talking to Nibali: “Attack all out. You’ll either win or bonk. You need a few bonks for the fans to really appreciate the wins.” Chapeau Remco.

 

[Riek s]

Remco stating before the stage that he feels good, he wont do the same as yesterday but that yesterday was done as a test to see where he is at.

Forum can calm down again

 

[Big Doopie]

Remco stating before the stage that he feels good, he wont do the same as yesterday but that yesterday was done as a test to see where he is at.

Forum can calm down again

NEVER!!

Oh and btw I now think he really should go to the tour. Bwahaha!!

 

[Extinction]

But the approach you are describing is what often works for him though, it's not that dumb in that sense. You would think that he would be able to feel that if he maintained that pace he would bonk but I'm not sure if it is that easy to predict. I honestly don't mind he went for it. You win some, you lose some. It's just the TDS after all, this isn't some huge goal of the season where he can't afford to make mistakes.

Sure it works for him, when he is ideally prepared and in top shape. This not being the case, his strategy this time didn't work and when it became obvious he still insisted in the failing operation. I think a sign of a rider's maturity is when he knows when to step on the gas and when to back of in the most advantageous ways. This can mean buying time or limiting damage, but it always gets the best result in a given situation.

We can applaud his is brazen desire to create spectacle or disapprove of a boneheaded action, the important thing is to learn from mistakes and not make them again.

 

[Extinction]

Remco stating before the stage that he feels good, he wont do the same as yesterday but that yesterday was done as a test to see where he is at.

Forum can calm down again

Good boy.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Sure, if someone is stupid enough to ride to the finish with him on their wheel, why not?

I think we can agree that if he had played it a litte more smartly, he could have won this stage. He was no worse than any of the others and he probably has the best sprint. Surely as an Evenepoel fan you'd rather see him win than ride like Skjelmose's personal Sepp Kuss?

I'm not talking about "as a fan" just in general. When you win as much as Evenepoel does, or as Roglic, or Pogacar, who usually win by the account of being physically better even by dominating, you don't really want to see those guys also win the few times when they are not better, just because they are sly and can take advantage of lesser riders. But there is of course a wide gap between extremes. Evenepoel who should have known/felt he wasn't in the best shape, attacking from far out and doing all the work was just dumb. On the other hand, a rider like him should also not just get in the wheel for the same amount of time and refuse to work, just take advantage of another rider who has far fewer chances to win. In a case like yesterday, i would -by far- prefer to see riders taking turns, share the load and see how the cookie crumbles. In such a scenario it wouldn't be dumb, nor smart, but fair.

Remco stating before the stage that he feels good, he wont do the same as yesterday but that yesterday was done as a test to see where he is at.

That's a bit the mindset i was expecting. An other possibility was that he was sending a message that he shouldn't be going to the Tour

 

[Extinction]

I'm not talking about "as a fan" just in general. When you win as much as Evenepoel does, or as Roglic, or Pogacar, who usually win by the account of being physically better even by dominating, you don't really want to see those guys also win the few times when they are not better, just because they are sly and can take advantage of lesser riders. But there is of course a wide gap between extremes. Evenepoel who should have known/felt he wasn't in the best shape, attacking from far out and doing all the work was just dumb. On the other hand, a rider like him should also not just get in the wheel for the same amount of time and refuse to work, just take advantage of another rider who has far fewer chances to win. In a case like yesterday, i would -by far- prefer to see riders taking turns, share the load and see how the cookie crumbles. In such a scenario it wouldn't be dumb, nor smart, but fair.


That's a bit the mindset i was expecting. An other possibility was that he was sending a message that he shouldn't be going to the Tour

To the bolded, in today's cycling riders follow orders conveyed from the team car via race radio. The days of romantic cycling, when there was an "honor code" to share the work, are long since gone (another reason to ban race radios). So riders will not share the load fairly, even if a bit of wheelsucking was always a tactic, when they are ordered not to. So it was obvious and expected that Skjelmose and Gall would have been ordered to wheelsuck. Yet why did Evenepoel keep insisting? If he was told to by Soudal, then they need new tactitians and strategists. If he did so of his own accord, then he gets the bonehead award of the season thus far.

 

[houtdffan]

Remco rides his best when he goes to the front and dictates his own tempo.

He has always struggled when trying to follow wheels. He is not a change of pace climber. He needs his steady fast tempo to be successful

 

[Extinction]

Remco rides his best when he goes to the front and dictates his own tempo.

He has always struggled when trying to follow wheels. He is not a change of pace climber. He needs his steady fast tempo to be successful

But he's struggled following wheels when he actually wasn't good enough, but that wasn't the case yesterday. I think it's s mostly a head thing. The idea that if you can't dictate the law then you're no good is BS. Sometimes there is a middle ground one needs to learn. The idea that either I ride everyone off my wheel when I attack or get dropped when others change pace isn't sustainable. He needs to learn to become adaptable in different situations. With yesterday's form he should have been able to follow the wheels to the finish, instead of taking the bull by the horns from too far out and getting dropped.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Remco rides his best when he goes to the front and dictates his own tempo.

He has always struggled when trying to follow wheels. He is not a change of pace climber. He needs his steady fast tempo to be successful

The issue is that clearly his own tempo, was not his own tempo.

 

[Berniece]

He wasn't that good today. I they race properly tomorrow I can see him lose a minute. If he's able to finish with the leaders again, then TDS is in the bag

 

[theyoungest]

I'm not talking about "as a fan" just in general. When you win as much as Evenepoel does, or as Roglic, or Pogacar, who usually win by the account of being physically better even by dominating, you don't really want to see those guys also win the few times when they are not better, just because they are sly and can take advantage of lesser riders.

I would argue that Roglic was far from the best rider in Tirreno, but he just rode smartly and won anyway. You see today and yesterday that even when he's not at his best, the sprint is still there for Evenepoel. Same goes for Roglic. Just gamble a bit, ride when you have to and not when you don't.

 

[Oldermanish]

He probably would have lost less time if he didn't do that attack but I don't think it was that stupid to find out what he is currently capable of.
It's not like you know in advance "I'm going to ride x W/kg for x minutes and then get dropped". Sometimes it's not bad to just go for it and see what happens. It didn't even turn out that badly.

Actually, he and his coaching staff know exactly what output he can sustain for a period of time. If you are a serious contender you attempt to stay within the known unless obvious weaknesses among other contenders provide a winning opportunity. It may mean saving just enough energy to win a sprint bonus and a few seconds.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I would argue that Roglic was far from the best rider in Tirreno, but he just rode smartly and won anyway. You see today and yesterday that even when he's not at his best, the sprint is still there for Evenepoel. Same goes for Roglic. Just gamble a bit, ride when you have to and not when you don't.

Yes, i agree with that.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He wasn't that good today. If they race properly tomorrow I can see him lose a minute. If he's able to finish with the leaders again, then TDF is in the bag

Fixed that for you.