Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

He is actually 4/4 so far.

In LBL the fix was in.

Giro he left, while still in the lead. He didnt lose, he quit while still being on top.

San Sebastian he can win in his sleep.

Worlds ITT, which was obviously the big target here. Road race was just prep and only a smokescreen to make everyone think he didnt have it. Real ones knew he would win it easy.

Only Vuelta left now. Others should be very afraid of him. Some should have second-thoughts about turning up, unless they want to be embarrassed by the almighty.

Win Lombardia for good measure and #Tour2024 is on big time. Remco rules!

To the bolded, after his performance today and considering the level he needs to achieve to win the Vuelta, I believe he indeed held back in the WCRR to be fresher for the TT and build into Spain. It makes sense, because he could not after San Sebastian (where he was good enough to win, but not dominant like last year), be also flying in Worlds RR, nail the Worlds TT and then win the Vuelta. Something had to be sacrificed and it was the road race.

 

[houtdffan]

I would say 2x 60min TTs. Irrespective of whether Remco is in the race or not btw. One flat(tish) and one hilly or MTT

The mtt should be the third itt

 

[peterfin]

To the bolded, after his performance today and considering the level he needs to achieve to win the Vuelta, I believe he indeed held back in the WCRR to be fresher for the TT and build into Spain. It makes sense, because he could not after San Sebastian (where he was good enough to win, but not dominant like last year), be also flying in Worlds RR, nail the Worlds TT and then win the Vuelta. Something had to be sacrificed and it was the road race.

I wonder how he would do that in practice because he is somebody that goes all in? The only thing that surprised me during the Worlds RR where his drop of 10-20 spots every time they did the punchy climb to the park. It is also what caused him an opportunity to join WVA in the attack. He explains it as not having the power to do it repeatedly. Maybe he also wanted to limit his exhaustion by not going all in during those punches? That would be a strange tactic during such an important race.

 

[jmdirt]

There's no reason to believe that the OGTT affected Rogla's Vuelta in 2021, and there's no reason to believe that the WCTT will affect Evenepoel's Vuelta now.

Not so much the race itself, but the prep, what has his prep been?

 

[SHAD0W93]

There's no reason to believe that the OGTT affected Rogla's Vuelta in 2021, and there's no reason to believe that the WCTT will affect Evenepoel's Vuelta now.

2023 WCRR >>> 2020(21) ORR in difficulty on top of Evenepoel not being the top favorite for the Vuelta like Rolgic was. The biggest threat to Roglic was Bernal who was recovering from his Giro sickness and the injury. Otherwise everyone else you’d expect Roglic to beat. Evenepoel is up against Roglic and Vinge, plus the usual suspects that he should beat. So yes, going all in to hit his WCTT goal at the start of the year because he planned to do the Giro originally with the Vuelta being added on while Roglic and Vinge planned for the Vuelta could lead to him finishing third instead of a potential win.

 

[topcat]

He is actually 4/4 so far.

In LBL the fix was in.

Giro he left, while still in the lead. He didnt lose, he quit while still being on top.

San Sebastian he can win in his sleep.

Won worlds ITT, which was obviously the big target here. Road race was just prep and only a smokescreen to make everyone think he didnt have it. Real ones knew he would win it easy.

Only Vuelta left now. Others should be very afraid of him. Some should have second-thoughts about turning up, unless they want to be embarrassed by the almighty.

Win Lombardia for good measure and #Tour2024 is on big time. Remco rules!

You finally got the hang of it.

 

[Extinction]

I wonder how he would do that in practice because he is somebody that goes all in? The only thing that surprised me during the Worlds RR where his drop of 10-20 spots every time they did the punchy climb to the park. It is also what caused him an opportunity to join WVA in the attack. He explains it as not having the power to do it repeatedly. Maybe he also wanted to limit his exhaustion by not going all in during those punches? That would be a strange tactic during such an important race.

I don't know how he hypothetically held back in the road race, but he seemed rather unperturbed at not having won, which, let's face it, was uncharacteristic. I get the sense his relaxed and graciously accepting comportment, may have had something to do with a plan: namely, don't wear yourself out to be fresher for the TT. Besides Wout was the first ace on that course and he dug deep to try and win. His TT apparently suffered, however, as a result. Moreover, the stated priority for Remco was always the TT this year and he nailed it. So I'd say he may have used the technical issues of the RR course, as a means to get away with saying "I suffered a lot", instead of "I didn't push myself to the maximum through all those turns to always remain at the front, because we had Wout for that today, with me to crush it in the upcoming TT". Mental games, in short.

 

[Nick2413]

I wonder how he would do that in practice because he is somebody that goes all in? The only thing that surprised me during the Worlds RR where his drop of 10-20 spots every time they did the punchy climb to the park. It is also what caused him an opportunity to join WVA in the attack. He explains it as not having the power to do it repeatedly. Maybe he also wanted to limit his exhaustion by not going all in during those punches? That would be a strange tactic during such an important race.

By around the 65k to go mark he made one last mini attack which looked like it was more for Wout anyway, and after that it was clear he wasn’t going to feature. Took it easy from there and finished 10 mins behind. I think he would’ve went deep if he felt he had it, but by lap 6 of 10 he was just honoring the race and waiting for the TT.

 

[Salvarani]

You finally got the hang of it.

I did the gymnastics.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

2023 WCRR >>> 2020(21) ORR in difficulty on top of Evenepoel not being the top favorite for the Vuelta like Rolgic was. The biggest threat to Roglic was Bernal who was recovering from his Giro sickness and the injury. Otherwise everyone else you’d expect Roglic to beat. Evenepoel is up against Roglic and Vinge, plus the usual suspects that he should beat. So yes, going all in to hit his WCTT goal at the start of the year because he planned to do the Giro originally with the Vuelta being added on while Roglic and Vinge planned for the Vuelta could lead to him finishing third instead of a potential win.

Too funny. Vingegaard planned for the Vuelta, Remco didn't!
a) Vingegaard announced his Vuelta participation after the Tour. Yes, it was probably in Jumbos mind from the start of the season, but he prepared for the Tour first and foremost.
b) For Roglic was always likely, but from what I remember not 100% decided either at the start of the season. His main goal of the season was the Giro as well.
c) It really makes little difference if you know that you will do the Vuelta in February or in June. Roglic wasn't preparing the Vuelta until after the Giro was over. Since then he's been on Vuelta course, so in theory should be the best prepared. We'll see how it turns out in practice, last year the Giro guys that rode virtually nothing between the Giro and the Vuelta mostly disappointed in the Vuelta. Hindley, Carapaz, Landa. Only Almeida somehow delivered. Same in 21, Bernal, Caruso and Vlasov all didn't deliver, Roglic got it right in 2019, he's 4 years older now and it doesn't seem to be that easy to get back in shape after a long break. Roglic with his high baseline, ok, should know what he's doing.
Vingegaard surely wasn't preparing the Vuelta before the end of the Tour. Completely unknown territory for him, and probably the preparation with the biggest question mark of the 3. Will he get it right the first time? It took Froome quite a few tries to do it.
Remco has been preparing the Vuelta since sometimes between the end of his Giro and the official announcement he would ride it. Including other goals, San Sebastian, Worlds. Basically the same program as last year. TdS, Nationals, San Sebastian. Then this time around the earlier Worlds. There's little reason he should not be able to prepare the Vuelta 23 as well as he did the Vuelta 22. No, preparation can't count as a preemptive explanation in case Remco doesn't win. Let's see first what he does anyway.

I don't know how he hypothetically held back in the road race, but he seemed rather unperturbed at not having won, which, let's face it, was uncharacteristic. I get the sense his relaxed and graciously accepting comportment, may have had something to do with a plan: namely, don't wear yourself out to be fresher for the TT. Besides Wout was the first ace on that course and he dug deep to try and win. His TT apparently suffered, however, as a result. Moreover, the stated priority for Remco was always the TT this year and he nailed it. So I'd say he may have used the technical issues of the RR course, as a means to get away with saying "I suffered a lot", instead of "I didn't push my self to the maximum through all those turns to always remain at the front, because we had Wout for that today, with me to crush it in the upcoming TT". Mental games, in short.

Unperturbed by not winning? Maybe unlike some of his fans he realizes he's not unbeatable, he knows he won't win every single race, he knows that sometimes he doesn't win and it's not because he wasn't giving it all, it wasn't because of sickness, but because, attention, shocking stuff coming, stop reading if you have a weak heart others simply were better. The mental games are all by people trying to explain things that don't need explaining. Mathieu Van der Poel was simply the best that day. Remco is mentally strong enough to accept that. Others don't seem to be.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I don't know how he hypothetically held back in the road race, but he seemed rather unperturbed at not having won, which, let's face it, was uncharacteristic. I get the sense his relaxed and graciously accepting comportment, may have had something to do with a plan: namely, don't wear yourself out to be fresher for the TT. Besides Wout was the first ace on that course and he dug deep to try and win. His TT apparently suffered, however, as a result. Moreover, the stated priority for Remco was always the TT this year and he nailed it. So I'd say he may have used the technical issues of the RR course, as a means to get away with saying "I suffered a lot", instead of "I didn't push myself to the maximum through all those turns to always remain at the front, because we had Wout for that today, with me to crush it in the upcoming TT". Mental games, in short.

This makes the Belgian team's decision to spend domestiques for Remco even more ill advised.

 

[Berniece]

Too funny. Vingegaard planned for the Vuelta, Remco didn't!
a) Vingegaard announced his Vuelta participation after the Tour. Yes, it was probably in Jumbos mind from the start of the season, but he prepared for the Tour first and foremost.
b) For Roglic was always likely, but from what I remember not 100% decided either at the start of the season. His main goal of the season was the Giro as well.
c) It really makes little difference if you know that you will do the Vuelta in February or in June. Roglic wasn't preparing the Vuelta until after the Giro was over. Since then he's been on Vuelta course, so in theory should be the best prepared. We'll see how it turns out in practice, last year the Giro guys that rode virtually nothing between the Giro and the Vuelta mostly disappointed in the Vuelta. Hindley, Carapaz, Landa. Only Almeida somehow delivered. Same in 21, Bernal, Caruso and Vlasov all didn't deliver, Roglic got it right in 2019, he's 4 years older now and it doesn't seem to be that easy to get back in shape after a long break. Roglic with his high baseline, ok, should know what he's doing.
Vingegaard surely wasn't preparing the Vuelta before the end of the Tour. Completely unknown territory for him, and probably the preparation with the biggest question mark of the 3. Will he get it right the first time? It took Froome quite a few tries to do it.
Remco has been preparing the Vuelta since sometimes between the end of his Giro and the official announcement he would ride it. Including other goals, San Sebastian, Worlds. Basically the same program as last year. TdS, Nationals, San Sebastian. Then this time around the earlier Worlds. There's little reason he should not be able to prepare the Vuelta 23 as well as he did the Vuelta 22. No, preparation can't count as a preemptive explanation in case Remco doesn't win. Let's see first what he does anyway.

Unperturbed by not winning? Maybe unlike some of his fans he realizes he's not unbeatable, he knows he won't win every single race, he knows that sometimes he doesn't win and it's not because he wasn't giving it all, it wasn't because of sickness, but because, attention, shocking stuff coming, stop reading if you have a weak heart others simply were better. The mental games are all by people trying to explain things that don't need explaining. Mathieu Van der Poel was simply the best that day. Remco is mentally strong enough to accept that. Others don't seem to be.

Vingegaard riding Vuelta was decided before the start of the season according to JV. Only thing I wanted to say, I don’t have an opinion on your discussion

 

[Riek s]

Too funny. Vingegaard planned for the Vuelta, Remco didn't!
a) Vingegaard announced his Vuelta participation after the Tour. Yes, it was probably in Jumbos mind from the start of the season, but he prepared for the Tour first and foremost.
b) For Roglic was always likely, but from what I remember not 100% decided either at the start of the season. His main goal of the season was the Giro as well.
c) It really makes little difference if you know that you will do the Vuelta in February or in June. Roglic wasn't preparing the Vuelta until after the Giro was over. Since then he's been on Vuelta course, so in theory should be the best prepared. We'll see how it turns out in practice, last year the Giro guys that rode virtually nothing between the Giro and the Vuelta mostly disappointed in the Vuelta. Hindley, Carapaz, Landa. Only Almeida somehow delivered. Same in 21, Bernal, Caruso and Vlasov all didn't deliver, Roglic got it right in 2019, he's 4 years older now and it doesn't seem to be that easy to get back in shape after a long break. Roglic with his high baseline, ok, should know what he's doing.
Vingegaard surely wasn't preparing the Vuelta before the end of the Tour. Completely unknown territory for him, and probably the preparation with the biggest question mark of the 3. Will he get it right the first time? It took Froome quite a few tries to do it.
Remco has been preparing the Vuelta since sometimes between the end of his Giro and the official announcement he would ride it. Including other goals, San Sebastian, Worlds. Basically the same program as last year. TdS, Nationals, San Sebastian. Then this time around the earlier Worlds. There's little reason he should not be able to prepare the Vuelta 23 as well as he did the Vuelta 22. No, preparation can't count as a preemptive explanation in case Remco doesn't win. Let's see first what he does anyway.

Unperturbed by not winning? Maybe unlike some of his fans he realizes he's not unbeatable, he knows he won't win every single race, he knows that sometimes he doesn't win and it's not because he wasn't giving it all, it wasn't because of sickness, but because, attention, shocking stuff coming, stop reading if you have a weak heart others simply were better. The mental games are all by people trying to explain things that don't need explaining. Mathieu Van der Poel was simply the best that day. Remco is mentally strong enough to accept that. Others don't seem to be.

Roglic is indeed the best prepped rider for the Vuelta (by far), he also did it before.
Vingegaard had the Vuelta in mind since the beginning of the year (according to JV, but the flow of information is very strange around it since he wasn't in the initial team roster for Vuelta). He is indeed a wildcard, but he didn't seem to be empty at the end of the tour, so i'm not expecting a complete bust.

Saying Remco prep is as good as 2022 is incorrect. His prepped started later and had an interrupt due to the WC. So less time before and no time after the classica. Which result in that his altitude adaptation will be diminishing before they hit the 3rd week. I have a hard time putting Remco as the favorite for the Vuelta, podium candidate for sure. (For the Giro he was the favorite, slightly above Roglic. Now he isn't)
Last year Classica was the in-between training camps. As indicated before, at this point in time his main goal was the WC ITT, the Vuelta is an add on/plugged in.



I think what Extinction meant wasn't that he didn't rode for the win, but that he let go when he knew he couldn't win/play for the knickers/get to the front. (Note that the group he was in was distanced due to a crash). So instead of being 10th and completely empty like the others he became 25th and it wasn't detriminal for his condition. So yes he held back, which is something he said himself (I didn't need to push myself in the last laps in the RR like Wout).

 

[staubsauger]

Best prepared rider for the upcoming Vuelta a Espana in theory is Juan Ayuso. Since his return from injury in late April he was always slowly but gradually building towards the Spanish grand tour. Ayuso still misses race rhythm and seems to fluctuate in his performances due to his youth independent from his injury though.

 

[Red Rick]

Hard for me to say how much Evenepoels preperation has deviated from last year because of the Worlds ITT. He did do recon of the Angliru and Tourmalet.

Roglic and Evenepeol should both be on the top of their game. Vingegaard prepped for the Tour and the Vuelta after that is very ad hoc preperation. We'll see how Vingegaard does, but if you prepare a Tour-Vuelta double in advance you're not going as nuclear in Itzulia and the Dauphine at least. Every top Vuelta after a Tour was after a Tour that wasn't the best.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Roglic and Evenepeol should both be on the top of their game. Vingegaard prepped for the Tour and the Vuelta after that is very ad hoc preperation. We'll see how Vingegaard does, but if you prepare a Tour-Vuelta double in advance you're not going as nuclear in Itzulia and the Dauphine at least. Every top Vuelta after a Tour was after a Tour that wasn't the best.

Froome 17? Wasn't the best Tour for Froome standards maybe, but he still won it....

 

[Mcgrave]

First rider to win a Grand Tour, a Monument, 🌈 RR & 🌈 ITT 🤩🤩

 

[urrmurrmur]

I think what Extinction meant wasn't that he didn't rode for the win, but that he let go when he knew he couldn't win/play for the knickers/get to the front. (Note that the group he was in was distanced due to a crash). So instead of being 10th and completely empty like the others he became 25th and it wasn't detriminal for his condition. So yes he held back, which is something he said himself (I didn't need to push myself in the last laps in the RR like Wout).

I've been lurking on this forum (with or without account) for four years and never felt the need to post. But I can't help myself this time, I have to say that "playing for the knickers" is the most glorious mistranslation of a Dutch saying I've ever heard. I will be stealing that for sure.

 

[peterfin]

I've been lurking on this forum (with or without account) for four years and never felt the need to post. But I can't help myself this time, I have to say that "playing for the knickers" is the most glorious mistranslation of a Dutch saying I've ever heard. I will be stealing that for sure.

🤣 Only the absolute top 'players' go for the knickers. It's a trophy they value more than any medal.

 

[Red Rick]

Froome 17? Wasn't the best Tour for Froome standards maybe, but he still won it....

Froome was average in that Tour. The 2 times he was flying like crazy in the Tour before the Vuelta his form was great at the Vuelta, in 2012 and 2015.

 

[Extinction]

Too funny. Vingegaard planned for the Vuelta, Remco didn't!
a) Vingegaard announced his Vuelta participation after the Tour. Yes, it was probably in Jumbos mind from the start of the season, but he prepared for the Tour first and foremost.
b) For Roglic was always likely, but from what I remember not 100% decided either at the start of the season. His main goal of the season was the Giro as well.
c) It really makes little difference if you know that you will do the Vuelta in February or in June. Roglic wasn't preparing the Vuelta until after the Giro was over. Since then he's been on Vuelta course, so in theory should be the best prepared. We'll see how it turns out in practice, last year the Giro guys that rode virtually nothing between the Giro and the Vuelta mostly disappointed in the Vuelta. Hindley, Carapaz, Landa. Only Almeida somehow delivered. Same in 21, Bernal, Caruso and Vlasov all didn't deliver, Roglic got it right in 2019, he's 4 years older now and it doesn't seem to be that easy to get back in shape after a long break. Roglic with his high baseline, ok, should know what he's doing.
Vingegaard surely wasn't preparing the Vuelta before the end of the Tour. Completely unknown territory for him, and probably the preparation with the biggest question mark of the 3. Will he get it right the first time? It took Froome quite a few tries to do it.
Remco has been preparing the Vuelta since sometimes between the end of his Giro and the official announcement he would ride it. Including other goals, San Sebastian, Worlds. Basically the same program as last year. TdS, Nationals, San Sebastian. Then this time around the earlier Worlds. There's little reason he should not be able to prepare the Vuelta 23 as well as he did the Vuelta 22. No, preparation can't count as a preemptive explanation in case Remco doesn't win. Let's see first what he does anyway.

Unperturbed by not winning? Maybe unlike some of his fans he realizes he's not unbeatable, he knows he won't win every single race, he knows that sometimes he doesn't win and it's not because he wasn't giving it all, it wasn't because of sickness, but because, attention, shocking stuff coming, stop reading if you have a weak heart others simply were better. The mental games are all by people trying to explain things that don't need explaining. Mathieu Van der Poel was simply the best that day. Remco is mentally strong enough to accept that. Others don't seem to be.

Remco with eyes on the TT and the Vuelta could not go all in for the WCRR as well, otherwise he'd have been massively upset if he didn't win the road race; isn't saying he would have been better than everybody else had he burried himself like Van Aert to win (and then not have stellar legs for the TT with it). Only you, putting worlds in another's mouth, which is to ass-ume, makes you inevitably fall into the assumer's unwitting self-parody, mate.

 

[Lexman]

Remco's going sunday for two weeks on a high altitude camp , climbing training and and wil do heat sessions as well ...

 

[Riek s]

Remco's going sunday for two weeks on a high altitude camp , climbing training and and wil do heat sessions as well ...

So will they setup Van wilder as a look-a-like in TTT so Remco can join on sunday ?.

I thought from previous posters that very short altitude camps don't really work. (this is like 10 days max?)

 

[Red Rick]

So will they setup Van wilder as a look-a-like in TTT so Remco can join on sunday ?.

I thought from previous posters that very short altitude camps don't really work. (this is like 10 days max?)

Many riders don't do it.

Poels went to Isola 2000 for 10 days after the criteriums.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I think Contador has just thrown a stick into the chicken coop

As usual PatLef is on the attack, naturally with the mouth, stating that Remco has won the TT with SQS and the Vuelta with the team forgetting that the TT is an individual discipline and none of his riders participated to help Remco out with the splits. We wont need to wait long to know the answer after all the Vuelta is coming. I cannot imagine the fallout if the team fails Remco.