Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Andre]

the problem with Remco is that he can ride with the top riders any given day, but he is prone to having a day sans juice, getting sick, … if he wants to win GT against the best he needs to change a lot:
- an optimum preparation: last years vuelta and this years giro remco looked stronger than in this race
- a better team: sadly, he most of all needs a top team. in the race and outside of it. Quickstep will always na something of a hassle
- a better attitude, more relaxed. Some of vinges infinite boredom….
- a parcours better suited to his capabilities
And then he might have a chance….

good points stekelegel. All those things can be done, except for improving his team. I mean, yes, the team can improve a bit but with JV and all their money and power it will be difficult to match them. Can it be that he is not been given the proper nutrition? A different diet might help him to avoid les jours sans les jambes

 

[Andre]

Four stage wins in grand tours in 2023 and possibly more to come, with a likely win in the Vuelta's KOM classification. He should ride the TDF next year.

He will ride Le Tour of 2024

 

[Andre]

A Belgian and his bike: I love it!

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

the problem with Remco is that he can ride with the top riders any given day, but he is prone to having a day sans juice, getting sick, … if he wants to win GT against the best he needs to change a lot:
- an optimum preparation: last years vuelta and this years giro remco looked stronger than in this race
- a better team: sadly, he most of all needs a top team. in the race and outside of it. Quickstep will always na something of a hassle

In todays episode of the Lantern Rouge podcast they talk quite a lot about this. How the Vuelta was added late and that the altitude camp between WC ITT and Vuelta seemed not optimal in their opinion (but they are of course not experts either). Putting in 9 days of altitude training when there was 13 days between WC ITT and start of Vuelta is indeed interesting.

With the team i'm not sure it's that bad. Cattaneo has been impressive this Vuelta. Vervaeke was good in the Vuelta last year and was very useful while Remco was still in the GC battle here. Van Wilder isn't here, but he's also a solid rider and Landa will be a great addition. Add Asgreen, Alaphilippe and one more (Hirt if he can find his legs from last year, Masnada if he's back to his best or a guy like Serry or Lampaert) I don't think the team is too weak IN the race. It does however looks like they need some additions to the team outside of the race just like you are implying.

 

[houtdffan]

Remco should not ride the tour next yera. He needs to do giro/vuelta

This is to ensure he is near top shape for both Olympics and worlds. Worlds have a course favorable to him

 

[Andre]

I love how you like to bring up Roglic when no one is talking about him. I hope you’re not one of those guys that are complaining when people bring up Remco in non-Remco relevant threads and discussions.

Great point Eddy. You must realize that guy Netserk is either a wacko or just somebody so negative that he can't ever enjoy a Remco success.

 

[Andre]

@stekelegel good analysis.

A few observations of my own:

1. A few days ago, I posted that he looked tired and seemed to lack confidence and I felt he would likely ship many minutes in one of the upcoming stages. My guess is that he (and his team) already knew that was a possibility (they do have ways of scientifically registering how someone is recovering. My guess is that is what played into the decision to slow his team up on the last climb a few days ago and not compete for the bonuses, etc. the next day. They were hoping he would recover in time.
2. Haven't heard from anyone anymore saying that he should have ridden the TDF this year right after Covid just for the experience. At the time I suggested that he would learn much more from trying to be at the front at the Vuelta instead. Which experience do we think he will have gained more from? Rhetorical. Rhetorical.
3. For those saying they won't allow him in the break again. LOL many times over. When has he ever needed to "be allowed"? Sure it will get more difficult only because some riders will not work with him (but they hardly did today) and if he ever gets back to threatening a top ten rider, perhaps that team will be put to work, but, c'mon now, if he maintains this type of form (like today), does he really need to be "allowed" to win stage 20? Let's be real.
4. I never understood the commentators saying that Bardet might try to sneak one over Remco. They like each other. They were often chatting with each other throughout. Bardet has previously been quoted as saying how much he admires him and finds him approachable and humble. It is interesting that two of the nicest riders (Bardet and Pinot) have both commented on the same thing. And Bardet's full interview is really worth watching: "C'est quelqu'un que j'apprecie beaucoup."
5. While I think questions about his climbing ability are silly, I totally agree that his ability to recover/not have a bad day in a GT is utterly in question.
6. Yesterday and today only cemented his place as the most interesting and exciting rider of this age (maybe any age).

one more pro win to get to 50 before merckx or pog did. ;-)

lombardia was always the next big goal anyway!

Great observations Big Doopie..."he doesn't need to be allowed".

 

[Extinction]

Low glycogen yesterday? This is something you can come back in 24h. Especially when you're chilling for half a stage.

Don't they monitor their riders' blood values? I've never seen anything like what he did today, except Basso at the 2005 Giro.

 

[yaco]

There is in my opinion no reason for QS to bring a sprinter to the tour when their best sprinter is Merlier. Merlier has shown that he’s only one to count for in the first few days of a GT and next year the tour will start with some very hard stages.

Of course you bring a sprinter as part of the team - Remco does not need seven dedicated riders as he does not have the GC GT palmares to deserve this.

 

[yaco]

I don't disagree, but if he attacks from the GC group with a few k to go, everybody will just say they let him go because he is not a threat

Hey - Jumbo will not ride to win stages, so unless teams ride, then you are whistling in the wind.

 

[stekelegel]

Don't they monitor their riders' blood values? I've never seen anything like what he did today, except Basso at the 2005 Giro.

We don’t know why he was so bad yesterday but my guess is that is was partly fatigue but also partly mental exhaustion. He is under constant attention of the press and public, all the things going on in the first week…. He wants to be the best desperately, puts himself under immense strain. All good traits for a 1 day exploit like today, but to win a tour against the JV train, you can’t waste any energy at all. He got dropped and didn’t fight it once it was clear the gc win was gone. but that made it easier for him today, not like allmeida trying everything for top ten.

 

[stekelegel]

good points stekelegel. All those things can be done, except for improving his team. I mean, yes, the team can improve a bit but with JV and all their money and power it will be difficult to match them. Can it be that he is not been given the proper nutrition? A different diet might help him to avoid les jours sans les jambes

Like a famous rider once said, the tour is won at the table and in bed. Jan baekelants once described how hard it is to race 7 hours day after day, go to the hotel, eat, massage,,and keep on eating, resting, sleeping. Most riders in GT suffer in the second and thirds weeks because their recuperating level goes down. Your stomach is upset, everything hurts… those are the things we don’t see but that separate the best gt riders from those that seem to have all the tools but always fade. So I think this is something he struggles with more then some other top contenders. Maybe jv has better meals / nutrition but in a small peloton that is hard to imagine…

 

[Extinction]

We don’t know why he was so bad yesterday but my guess is that is was partly fatigue but also partly mental exhaustion. He is under constant attention of the press and public, all the things going on in the first week…. He wants to be the best desperately, puts himself under immense strain. All good traits for a 1 day exploit like today, but to win a tour against the JV train, you can’t waste any energy at all. He got dropped and didn’t fight it once it was clear the gc win was gone. but that made it easier for him today, not like allmeida trying everything for top ten.

Right, but his pace was that of a phenomen today. I don't think Almeida totally lets go and then does what Remco did today. How could he be that bad 24 hours before? It's mind boggling. It must be the weight of expectation on his head, like Domacles'sword.

 

[Ripper]

Precarious level of flipped form in just 20 hours, though a beautiful comeback when all is said and done, even though it was the last one you had expected with such an inferior level just 20 hours before.. but its been quite obvious that Remco can't hold with the best when they are kicking it as we also saw on stage6 where he dropped quite fast, but there he was able to maintain the loss quite well.

Regarding the bolted, what are you talking about?

 

[Ripper]

They asked him about the green jersey in the interview...I think he said he's not too interested in the green. It was great watching him win today. I felt very bad when he said he cried all night and then he broke down from emotions at the arrival today. He is truly the most interesting rider in a very long time. Glad to see him smile today also.

He is very interesting! Seems to be very polarizing as well (although I suspect that is more the impact of his fans)

 

[Ripper]

the problem with Remco is that he can ride with the top riders any given day, but he is prone to having a day sans juice, getting sick, … if he wants to win GT against the best he needs to change a lot:
- an optimum preparation: last years vuelta and this years giro remco looked stronger than in this race
- a better team: sadly, he most of all needs a top team. in the race and outside of it. Quickstep will always na something of a hassle
- a better attitude, more relaxed. Some of vinges infinite boredom….
- a parcours better suited to his capabilities
And then he might have a chance….

Very true

 

[Ripper]

@stekelegel good analysis.

A few observations of my own:

1. A few days ago, I posted that he looked tired and seemed to lack confidence and I felt he would likely ship many minutes in one of the upcoming stages. My guess is that he (and his team) already knew that was a possibility. After all, they do have ways of scientifically registering how someone is recovering. My guess is that is what played into the decision to slow his team up on the last climb a few days ago and not compete for the bonuses, etc. the next day. They were hoping he would recover in time.
2. Haven't heard from anyone anymore saying that he should have ridden the TDF this year right after Covid just for the experience. At the time I suggested that he would learn much more from trying to be at the front at the Vuelta instead. Which experience do we think he will have gained more from? Rhetorical. Rhetorical.
3. For those saying they won't allow him in the break again. LOL many times over. When has he ever needed to "be allowed"? Sure it will get more difficult only because some riders will not work with him (but they hardly did today) and if he ever gets back to threatening a top ten rider, perhaps that team will be put to work, but, c'mon now, if he maintains this type of form (like today), does he really need to be "allowed" to win stage 20? Let's be real.
4. I never understood the commentators saying that Bardet might try to sneak one over Remco. They like each other. They were often chatting with each other throughout. Bardet has previously been quoted as saying how much he admires him and finds him approachable and humble. It is interesting that two of the nicest riders (Bardet and Pinot) have both commented on the same thing. And Bardet's full interview is really worth watching: "C'est quelqu'un que j'apprecie beaucoup."
5. While I think questions about his climbing ability are silly, I totally agree that his ability to recover/not have a bad day in a GT is utterly in question.
6. Yesterday and today only cemented his place as the most interesting and exciting rider of this age (maybe any age).

one more pro win to get to 50 before merckx or pog did. ;-)

lombardia was always the next big goal anyway!

💯

This is about a +100% analysis.

 

[GroupDK]

Regarding the bolted, what are you talking about?

it says so.... maybe read a few words after the bolted line and you would know what a person is referring to.... hence the hillystage that so far made the biggest impact on the GC (stage6) and where Remco couldn't hold it when the big dogs on campus accelerated.

View: https://youtu.be/jo-X1NBFYRQ?si=S0YsRj7j3gzLkqtr&t=135

 

[Arked]

Don't they monitor their riders' blood values? I've never seen anything like what he did today, except Basso at the 2005 Giro.

To monitor glycogen they'd need to do muscle biopsies though. Either they messed up something with nutrition, or Remco emptied his tanks more than others during previous stages (being more glycolytic rider?) ...

 

[Ripper]

it says so.... maybe read a few words after the bolted line and you would know what a person is referring to.... hence the hillystage that so far made the biggest impact on the GC (stage6) and where Remco couldn't hold it when the big dogs on campus accelerated.

View: https://youtu.be/jo-X1NBFYRQ?si=S0YsRj7j3gzLkqtr&t=135

I'm aware of the stage results. But is your comment discussing only one stage, or are you talking about this as his typical functional capacity?

 

[Ripper]

Low glycogen yesterday? This is something you can come back in 24h. Especially when you're chilling for half a stage.

It absolutely can be a thing, especially given Remco was doing some last minute weight loss and probably still trying to lose weight during the beginning of this race.

#riskystrategy

 

[Ulle97]

For those saying they won't allow him in the break again. LOL many times over. When has he ever needed to "be allowed"? Sure it will get more difficult only because some riders will not work with him (but they hardly did today) and if he ever gets back to threatening a top ten rider, perhaps that team will be put to work, but, c'mon now, if he maintains this type of form (like today), does he really need to be "allowed" to win stage 20? Let's be real.

I think he'll get away in one more break before the end of the Vuelta. I think stage 20 suits him best if he targets it. If he gets into another breakaway before stage twenty and takes a few more mins back, there are riders who will begin to see their top 10 position under threat and teams will work to chase him down.

How many more stages do you predict he'll be in the breakaway?

 

[Andre]

He is very interesting! Seems to be very polarizing as well (although I suspect that is more the impact of his fans)

"interesting" as in to follow and admire his racing and all the surprises that he comes up with.

 

[GroupDK]

I'm aware of the stage results. But is your comment discussing only one stage, or are you talking about this as his typical functional capacity?

"Typical functional capacity".. say what..the other loss should hopefully be in clear recollection.
to sum up, losing close to ½ hour in a Grand Tour on a single king-stage is problematic when your main agenda is the GC, then it goes without saying that he got some distance to the main competitors.

Remco still manages third spot on the world stage world ranking, so its not up for debate if he is a talented stage race rider.

 

[Andre]

Does anybody know when Logic-is-you-friend will be back? I really miss his analysis on the races.