Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[red_flanders]

Well I think the 'pathetic' thoughts already entered his head before yesterday . I dont expect you to know anything about psychology. but its plain to see that to improve in GC he needs to learn to ride 'a bit boring' for awhile and to calm down during a GT

This GC is over. Next one? Sure, there’s truth in what you say, but you weren’t talking about the next one, you said…

“Ride the rest of the Vuelta without expectation , sit in the 'failure' of yesterday and learn from it ...a bit of humility wouldnt go amiss. The constant need to prove himself oozes from his every pore. How tiring for him and how much pressure”

For him to stop fighting now, after such a spectacular effort and recovery, I mean I can’t fathom the mentality that would react to todays effort in such a way. The idea that he should now reign it in and stop because he needs to learn humility…I mean it just blows my mind anyone could react to hat he did in such a way. To presume he needs to learn a lesson and stop doing what made today so great…that he needs to stew in his failure, it seems the height of arrogance and presumption. Bizarre.

Then to go after his fans…amazing.

 

[proffate]

Remco's reaction today shows he is exceptional, but you aren't allowed to have a bad day when fighting for GC. This must be overcome or else he is destined to never win the Tour. But how can you go from losing nearly half an hour, to then win by 8 minutes? His head? His body? Both? The whole thing seems surreal. I've never seen what he did today after such a debacle. Fragility and invincible strength, schizophrenia on two wheels.

Clearly he chose to ship extra time yesterday to save energy and get a longer leash (i.e. 27 minutes is not representative of his form). A hunger knock would explain this abrupt reversal of fortune, although if it were as simple as that, you'd think he'd have told the press. But there are so many haters who will jump on everything he says, it's probably easiest just to keep quiet.

Oh, and you saw this before with Landis.

 

[proffate]

What about it ages poorly? I was never comparing Evenepoel his ability with Almeidas.

My whole point was that he let gc slide while the other one didn't. The difference lays in the very approach. Remco decided to phone it in and as a result he can go for stages. If he hadn't he could've potentially maintained a top 10 position. Its all about what you value higher, stage wins or a gc. If they keep letting him take time he might get close to top 10 again but likely never enter it.

If you want to be a gc rider you should likely go for a gc. If today he would again have gone down then you can alter course and go for stages but to do it so drastically was a moment of mental weakness.

I'm happy with his win today and think it's great that he can bounce back like that. But it doesn't do much as far as developing as a gc rider goes. It proves, once more, that he is a fantastic rider who can win stages with aggressive attacking cycling. But we already knew that.

On a side note I personally wish they would try to play to that strength more in his gc ambitions, rather than this roglic style cycling they've been trying. Might be suicide but atleast it's Remco.

too long didn't read.

You said he should do something boring, but he did something spectacular instead. Your advice was ridiculous and proven wrong less than 24 hours later. Almeida did something boring because that's all he's capable of.

 

[nightowl]

Well I think the 'pathetic' thoughts already entered his head before yesterday . I dont expect you to know anything about psychology. but its plain to see that to improve in GC he needs to learn to ride 'a bit boring' for awhile and to calm down during a GT

I never complained.. I said it would be best for Evenepol's long term development to maybe ride abit anonymously in the peloton for awhile. I cant help if you would rather he was worked up the whole time. For a few days in this Vuelta would be a rest for him, esp from the pressure he so obviously feels

FFS he was crying all last night and didn't sleep and he was crying for ages after the stage today. But let me not impinge on your entertainment

Not going to comment on Remco again. What comes to mind is Gandhi's quote on Christians when dealing with Remco's fans

"I'd be a Christian but for the Christians"

Your point doesn’t make any sense though. Does he struggle to deal with the stress and pressure placed upon him, especially when he feels like he isn’t living up to expectations like yesterday? Yes, the evidence would suggest that that is a bit of a problem for him. But that’s something you fix by working on it with a sports psychologist, not by riding “boring” while blaming yourself for not dealing with the pressure. On the contrary, now that he’s free from the pressure of riding for GC it’s not a bad idea to get some stage wins and re-build a little bit of confidence.

I don’t even really know how he could’ve ridden more “boring” this Vuelta anyway. He accelerated off the front once in the last 100m on Arinsal and other than that he hadn’t attacked at all before his big crack yesterday.

Moreover, the pressure placed upon him and the stress that comes with it is the result of him being the prodigal son of the most cycling-mad country on the planet. It’s definitely not helped by his team management and family feeding into the media circus that surrounds him either. No amount of riding “boring” is going to take that pressure off him though. Nor is it going to take the media attention away from because, again, it’s there because of who he is. In fact, it’ll probably make the media worse. It’s obviously not a mentally healthy situation for a young athlete to be in, but unfortunately it is his reality.

I do agree he sometimes needs to choose his words more carefully and be more aware of how his words will come across and be portrayed in the media - he could definitely do with some media training to try and limit negative media attention. But again, that’s not going to be solved by riding any differently.

 

[proffate]

His main rival on these HC climbs was a man in 23rd position on GC and 46mins down.
So long as that's his main competition, he won't have any issues on stages with multiple HC climbs.

A man who has come in 2nd at the TDF, and whom he had on a tow rope for hours while his lead to the peloton only grew.

And this debate is about whether he could deal with HC climbs, not whether he has already won an HC MTF from the front group. If you still don't think it's going to happen, I can't help you, I guess it just requires a modicum of imagination.

 

[SHAD0W93]

So how many riders did he choose to get dropped by?

There’s a difference between letting a rider go that’s mins behind you in GC and getting dropped by the threat. Mas and MAL were the former, Rolgic the latter.

I didn't bring said stage up, where he was dropped by Mas whom he lost time to across all mountain stages.

No, but you’ve brought it up multiple times before and during this Vuelta.

 

[ManicJack]

A man who has come in 2nd at the TDF, and whom he had on a tow rope for hours while his lead to the peloton only grew.

That is irrelevant to today and you know it.

 

[saunaking]

In 10y time, and when we look back at both their careers, I have no doubt Remco will have more GT wins, but I also trust that based on his reliability and fighting spirit, Almeida will have much more top 5s…

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

you had to go look up his wikipedia or something but there's nothing of note there or in anyones memory. Oh wait! He's actually really, really consistent in GTs!!!!

 

[Big Doopie]

FWIW, Horner thinks antibiotics is the only thing that could explain the total blockage one day and then back to form the next.

 

[ManicJack]

FWIW, Horner thinks antibiotics is the only thing that could explain the total blockage one day and then back to form the next.

That's absolute nonsense.

 

[houtdffan]

But he was born to try to win the Tour de France… So it might be a good thing if Remco finally has his debut at the Tour de France, in 2024…

It is, however, the worst year for him to do the TDF given the Olympics and the favorable worlds.

This would have been a better year, but it was clear at Suisse he was not going to win

 

[Big Doopie]

Storer also appeared a little blown away by today. He said he had never seen someone attack five times and then still ride everyone off his wheel.

 

[Big Doopie]

It is, however, the worst year for him to do the TDF given the Olympics and the favorable worlds.

This would have been a better year, but it was clear at Suisse he was not going to win

Hmm. Mostly I agree.

I do not give a sh!t about the Olympics. They are absolutely meaningless in pro cycling and have no tradition of great winners.

The Worlds he should pretty much always target.

However he cannot delay the TDF any more. Go to it. Go fully prepared. Hopefully there is a good amount of ITT. then see where the chips fall. After that he will have a better idea about what to target moving forward. After all, Sean Kelly who only ever won one GT, is second on at least some lists for GOAT.

 

[StryderHells]

Hmm. Mostly I agree.

I do not give a sh!t about the Olympics. They are absolutely meaningless in pro cycling and have no tradition of great winners.

The Worlds he should pretty much always target.

However he cannot delay the TDF any more. Go to it. Go fully prepared. Hopefully there is a good amount of ITT. then see where the chips fall. After that he will have a better idea about what to target moving forward. After all, Sean Kelly who only ever won one GT, is second on at least some lists for GOAT.

The Olympic road race doesn’t have a list of great winners?

 

[red_flanders]

That's absolute nonsense.

That’s Horner.

 

[saunaking]

The Olympic road race doesn’t have a list of great winners?

No. I just googled it. Yeah some pretty good riders in the past few, but before 1980 I have never even heard
of any of these guys except for Kuiper.

Certainly no list of 'great' winners

 

[dennisdy]

Remco needs to work with a sports psychiatrist. Yesterday he was unable to turn in an average performance, losing 27 minutes. Today he wins by eight. Since there is no physical explanation it has to be a mental one. I have never seen a top athlete have a problem like this.

 

[nightowl]

No. I just googled it. Yeah some pretty good riders in the past few, but before 1980 I have never even heard
of any of these guys except for Kuiper.

Certainly no list of 'great' winners

Well it was a strictly amateur competition until 1996 which is why the winners list is a bit unexpected. I’d tend to agree that it isn’t as prestigious as say monuments or worlds when it comes to Pro Cycling, but as a general sporting achievement Olympic Gold is the pinnacle of success.

 

[Big Doopie]

The Olympic road race doesn’t have a list of great winners?

Nope. And is traditionally meaningless in pro cycling.

 

[saunaking]

Well it was a strictly amateur competition until 1996 which is why the winners list is a bit unexpected. I’d tend to agree that it isn’t as prestigious as say monuments or worlds when it comes to Pro Cycling, but as a general sporting achievement Olympic Gold is the pinnacle of success.

yeah, i'd agree it falls below a monument but above most 1 day classics like GW or San Sebastian, E3 etc.

biggest for guys from non-cycling countries

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Nope. And is traditionally meaningless in pro cycling.

So is San Sebastian....

Of course he needs to target the Olympics. Spring, try Flanders finally, Liège for the threepeat, then TdF, Olympics.

 

[proffate]

Strade bianchi is also meaningless in the history of pro cycling because it didn't exist, but it's still a top addition to a palmares IMHO, above all other classics outside monuments. It's the field that shows up which makes a race, and I think the Olympics is equal to a world championship these days in terms of the high caliber riders targeting it. We can see riders like Pidcock and MVDP building one or even two consecutive seasons around Olympics targets. The added rarity and non-niche publicity that comes with being an Olympic medalist elevate it for me. The ability to penetrate the popular consciousness in parts of the world that are not cycling mad has been achieved by very few (Lance, Merckx, ...). Winning Olympics in one or more disciplines would be a key ingredient in becoming the Michael Phelps of cycling (i.e. I have no idea what the swimming world is like but I know who Michael Phelps is).

 

[SHAD0W93]

Nope. And is traditionally meaningless in pro cycling.

I don’t think that’s fair at all looking at the list of winners and podium since it went pro in 1996. Sure you can say it doesn’t have a long history but the winners have been top or close to tier.

 

[Extinction]

Nope. And is traditionally meaningless in pro cycling.

It has become meaningful in the 2000s, having been a pro race since 96. If you ask pro cyclists, they would all like to have an Olympic gold in there palmarès. Just being in the Olympic Village has a transcending effect, placing you beyond the individual activity into the gotha of world sport. Of course, as an amateur event it had no relevance and, as you say, traditionally meaningless (although not really, because an Olympic gold gauranteed a pro contract). But today that's no longer the case.

 

[Extinction]

He lost half an hour because he didn't even try the last 2 climbs. If he wanted he probably could have come in like Almeida or something but what's the point in doing that? Now he had a relatively easy 2 last climbs and he was allowed in the breakaway. If he would have been 10 minutes down, they would never let him go.

Agreed, however, the legs he had today were GC podium material had he not experienced the debacle. So it must have been largely mental, as the stark difference in performances was astounding. He certainly was given a leash, but on the finishing climb the leaders' group did not take time back on him. And I doubt they were just pacing it. Whatever the case, he and his entourage need to figure out what went wrong and fix it. If that means getting a sports psychologist, get a sports psychologist.