Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Red Rick]

Points jersey more like pointless jersey amiright

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Points jersey more like pointless jersey amiright

I thinks it’s much less pointless when it’s designed to benefit sprinters. As it used to be in the Vuelta it felt really pointless when it often fell to GC riders that didn’t really care about it at all it was just a no product of racing for GC.

 

[Red Rick]

I thinks it’s much less pointless when it’s designed to benefit sprinters. As it used to be in the Vuelta it felt really pointless when it often fell to GC riders that didn’t really care about it at all it was just a no product of racing for GC.

Bauke Mollema is the best green jersey winner the Vuelta ever had.

 

[Netserk]

It's a better reward to sprinting GC riders than bonus seconds.

 

[staubsauger]

The sprint jersey at the Giro d'Italia only changed in 2009 when Di Luca initially won it towards the system where gc riders contested victory due to evenly handed out points. Before, it was won by riders like Petacchi & Bettini. Unless we go back to 88 when Vandevelde won it with collecting points everywhere.

Frankly I prefer today's points system. It really is a sprinters jersey now. We have 2 valuable jerseys. The pink/yellow/red jersey for the overall classification which is contested by the big gc favorites and the purple/green jersey for the sprinters. The sprinters are a very unique riders type but essential to cycling. Them being properly rewarded with the 2nd jersey competition, independently from the gc is a must have IMHO. Especially since they cut short sprint stages. It's some kind of compensation of course.

The only mistake is that they didn't do this back in the tens when we had super sprinters like Kittel, Cavendish & Greipel fighting it out. But nowadays when Philipsen & Jakobsen are the biggest names. Hence the sprinters field seems a bit weaker than before.

That's just my personal opinion of course.

 

[Red Rick]

The sprint jersey at the Giro d'Italia only changed in 2009 when Di Luca initially won it towards the system where gc riders contested victory due to evenly handed out points. Before, it was won by riders like Petacchi & Bettini. Unless we go back to 88 when Vandevelde won it with collecting points everywhere.

Frankly I prefer today's points system. It really is a sprinters jersey now. We have 2 valuable jerseys. The pink/yellow/red jersey for the overall classification which is contested by the big gc favorites and the purple/green jersey for the sprinters. The sprinters are a very unique riders type but essential to cycling. Them being properly rewarded with the 2nd jersey competition, independently from the gc is a must have IMHO. Especially since they cut short sprint stages. It's some kind of compensation of course.

The only mistake is that they didn't do this back in the tens when we had super sprinters like Kittel, Cavendish & Greipel fighting it out. But nowadays when Philipsen & Jakobsen are the biggest names. Hence the sprinters field seems a bit weaker than before.

That's just my personal opinion of course.

If you need to tweak it this hard for the one sprinter that tries to win it to win, then maybe the sprinter isn't good enough to deserve it. Points jerseys barely classify as competitions these days. The only reason the Giro and Vuelta try to force sprinters to win it is because they're trying to imitate the Tour de France, which used to have sprinters win it simply because they had a million flat stages.

 

[staubsauger]

If you need to tweak it this hard for the one sprinter that tries to win it to win, then maybe the sprinter isn't good enough to deserve it.

Points jerseys barely classify as competitions these days. The only reason the Giro and Vuelta try to force sprinters to win it is because they're trying to imitate the Tour de France, which used to have sprinters win it simply because they had a million flat stages.

Yes, the deepness of the sprinters field is non-existent nowadays!

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, the deepness of the sprinters field is non-existent nowadays!

I don't understand that sprinters don't want to race the Vuelta. It's so much free real estate.

Philipsen I can somewhat understand simply because the team likely promised Groves he'd get to race it.

 

[staubsauger]

I don't understand that sprinters don't want to race the Vuelta. It's so much free real estate.

Philipsen I can somewhat understand simply because the team likely promised Groves he'd get to race it.

It's even less understandable with the Giro d'Italia, since the Italian grand tour still offers many flat stages.

Someone like Jakobsen & Groenewegen certainly should have targeted the maglia ciclamino rather than getting beaten at the Tour de France. Maybe Jakobsen & Kooij are wiser in future.

At the Vuelta a Espana, with the likes of Marcel Wüst & Max van Heeswijk in mind, it's suspect to me those 2nd tier sprinters don't look for their chances in Spain anymore as well. Geoffrey Soupe finally won a Grand Tour stage this year. So have guys like Jempy Drucker before. Hutarovych. Etc.

 

[Red Rick]

Anyway, after Evenepoel collapsed on the Aubisque I hypothesized he might be overraced/overtrained. Now it's kinda hard to say where his level is at the moment in this last week compared to actual GC Evenepoel. I still think he's a bit short on his peak shape despite winning these breakaway stages. IMO Evenepoel can do breakaways in easy mode in flat sections despite doing quite a lot of work, especially if there's no pressure from the peloton behind, so he's naturally pretty fresh later in the breakaway when they get to the final 2 climbs.

Honestly a bit annoying he didn't try to do the Angliru stage with the main GC guys.

 

[hayneplane]

It's even less understandable with the Giro d'Italia, since the Italian grand tour still offers many flat stages.

Someone like Jakobsen & Groenewegen certainly should have targeted the maglia ciclamino rather than getting beaten at the Tour de France. Maybe Jakobsen & Kooij are wiser in future.

At the Vuelta a Espana, with the likes of Marcel Wüst & Max van Heeswijk in mind, it's suspect to me those 2nd tier sprinters don't look for their chances in Spain anymore as well. Geoffrey Soupe finally won a Grand Tour stage this year. So have guys like Jempy Drucker before. Hutarovych. Etc.

Exactly this. The Vuelta sprint stages are low hanging fruit for any fast guy and a chance to learn the chaos of a grand tour sprint but without the ultra honed lead out trains of the Tour so a better chance to get in the mix.

Kooij has a tricky spot as he has a fantastic lead out operation in the races he gets to lead but due to all the stacked talent in the team they focus GC every grand tour limiting his chance to break through.

 

[Netserk]

Anyway, after Evenepoel collapsed on the Aubisque I hypothesized he might be overraced/overtrained. Now it's kinda hard to say where his level is at the moment in this last week compared to actual GC Evenepoel. I still think he's a bit short on his peak shape despite winning these breakaway stages. IMO Evenepoel can do breakaways in easy mode in flat sections despite doing quite a lot of work, especially if there's no pressure from the peloton behind, so he's naturally pretty fresh later in the breakaway when they get to the final 2 climbs.

Honestly a bit annoying he didn't try to do the Angliru stage with the main GC guys.

He said that he knew the break would get caught on the Angliru stage beforehand, so I take it as a clear admission that he wanted to avoid a direct duel against the best.

 

[Berniece]

So I take it as a clear admission that he wanted to avoid a direct duel against the best.

Lol, he had a different target, the mountain jersey. What makes most sense? Making sure you finish first on two 1-mountains or first on an HC?

 

[Red Rick]

Lol, he had a different target, the mountain jersey. What makes most sense? Making sure you finish first on two 1-mountains or first on an HC?

He could've taken Cordal KoM from the GC group anyway. I think the opportunity costs were very low to do so.

I think it would have been a useful test for himself too. Was it just one bad day that killed his GC or is he generally not good enough and by what margin.

 

[Trofonios]

I wonder how much the preperation for ITT worlds hampered his preperation for the Vuelta? Remco himself said that the ITT worlds were one of the big goals this season beside the Giro and LBL. He also said he gained a couple of kilos to gain more power for the worlds. Did he manage to drop those kilos to the Vuelta? And was it ever possible to peak for the worlds and then carry on the form to the Vuelta?

I won't write off Remco yet as a winner of a tough GT. I hope he gets a perfect preperation next year, then we might say with more confidence if he is the real deal or not, meaning able to challange the likes of Pog, Vinge and Rogla.

 

[Netserk]

Lol, he had a different target, the mountain jersey. What makes most sense? Making sure you finish first on two 1-mountains or first on an HC?

He led the competition by 30 points before the stage and was always going to extend his lead the day after. It was not in danger if he forfeited 20 points (while battling for the 15 on Angliru).

 

[Valanga]

He could've taken Cordal KoM from the GC group anyway. I think the opportunity costs were very low to do so.

I think it would have been a useful test for himself too. Was it just one bad day that killed his GC or is he generally not good enough and by what margin.

Would that really have told him anything though?
He is spending way more energy in his breakaways then the GC guys, and saving energy on other moments. In any case it's not going to be comparable.

 

[Red Rick]

Would that really have told him anything though?
He is spending way more energy in his breakaways then the GC guys, and saving energy on other moments. In any case it's not going to be comparable.

His previous 2 days had been a rest day and a 3 hour stage where he probably never went above zone 2.

 

[Berniece]

He led the competition by 30 points before the stage and was always going to extend his lead the day after. It was not in danger if he forfeited 20 points (while battling for the 15 on Angliru).

So he should take the risk of completely losing that lead instead of extending it…

 

[Miss Violet Smith]

Disclaimer to say that I'm a fairly neutral fan of Evenepoel (I'm in Belgium, not too far from his home village, so of course I am a fan and have been for years). And I'm a bit contrary in the way that I actually like him for a lot of the same things that media jumps on him for. For example, I saw him referred to as Big Mouth Belgian somewhere and thought: Yes, exactly! Is he great or what!

I get that the Vuelta probably didn't turn out the way he wished. I'm still very happy for what he was able to accomplish and that he could regroup and change his objectives after a bad day. If anything, what he demonstrated this year has made me a bigger fan than last year's win.

ETA: I cannot help but poke fun at him now and then, he's such A Character, but please be assured that it's done with affection.

 

[topcat]

Remco lost the gc battle on stage 13. I think he’s probably got as much as possible out of the race since then: Kom and a few stage wins. He’s got a better chance of a stage win from a breakaway than from the gc group. You have to choose your battles-in a race and also on the forum.
Anyway, vuelta’s dead, baby.

 

[KZD]

I wonder how much the preperation for ITT worlds hampered his preperation for the Vuelta? Remco himself said that the ITT worlds were one of the big goals this season beside the Giro and LBL. He also said he gained a couple of kilos to gain more power for the worlds. Did he manage to drop those kilos to the Vuelta? And was it ever possible to peak for the worlds and then carry on that peak to the Vuelta?

I won't write off Remco yet as a winner of a tough GT. I hope he gets a perfect preperation next year, then we might say with more confidence if he is the real deal or not, meaning able to challange the likes of Pog, Vinge and Rogla.

I think he didn't have the best preparation for this Vuelta exactly because of the Worlds TT which was before the Vuelta and requires a much different preparation than a Grand Tour.

As for next year, to be honest, I don't expect Remco to have a perfect preparation for the Tour either, I expect him to have a kind of 'hybrid'preparation like Pogačar usually does because next year I expect him to ride three monuments, likely MSR, LBL and GDL, both Olympic races and both World Championships races. This will more than likely not be enough for him to fight for theTour win but could still challenge for the podium while having an incredible year in one-day races which, at least to me, is a better option than him just getting super lean for the Tour, to likely not win, and not achieving big one-day race wins.

In 2025, with a lower opportunity cost (no Olympics), I expect Remco to get more a more perfect preparation for the Tour in order to challenge Pogačar and Vingegård.

 

[Trofonios]

I think he didn't have the best preparation for this Vuelta exactly because of the Worlds TT which was before the Vuelta and requires a much different preparation than a Grand Tour.

As for next year, to be honest, I don't expect Remco to have a perfect preparation for the Tour either, I expect him to have a kind of 'hybrid'preparation like Pogačar usually does because next year I expect him to ride three monuments, likely MSR, LBL and GDL, both Olympic races and both World Championships races. This will more than likely not be enough for him to fight for theTour win but could still challenge for the podium while having an incredible year in one-day races which, at least to me, is a better option than him just getting super lean for the Tour, to likely not win, and not achieving big one-day race wins.

In 2025, with a lower opportunity cost (no Olympics), I expect Remco to get more a more perfect preparation for the Tour in order to challenge Pogačar and Vingegård.

Think you are right here.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

I think he didn't have the best preparation for this Vuelta exactly because of the Worlds TT which was before the Vuelta and requires a much different preparation than a Grand Tour.

As for next year, to be honest, I don't expect Remco to have a perfect preparation for the Tour either, I expect him to have a kind of 'hybrid'preparation like Pogačar usually does because next year I expect him to ride three monuments, likely MSR, LBL and GDL, both Olympic races and both World Championships races. This will more than likely not be enough for him to fight for theTour win but could still challenge for the podium while having an incredible year in one-day races which, at least to me, is a better option than him just getting super lean for the Tour, to likely not win, and not achieving big one-day race wins.

In 2025, with a lower opportunity cost (no Olympics), I expect Remco to get more a more perfect preparation for the Tour in order to challenge Pogačar and Vingegård.

Didn't he also talk about racing Flanders next year?

 

[Netserk]

So he should take the risk of completely losing that lead instead of extending it…

He could only lose the jersey (by 3 points) if Storer was in the break and won the stage.

As the stage winner would come from the peloton, he could not lose the jersey that day and the overall would not be threatened. KOM was at best an excuse to avoid going against the best, the following stage was always far more important for points.