Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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Time trials and Flat stages are things Pogacar barely and doesn’t win, both of them win hilly and mountain stages, and Pogacar wins on cobbles

I’m not saying Evenepoel is a better rider, I’m saying he wins a more diverse set of races
That’s two things Remco wins that Pogacar rarely win, but it’s also easy to say two things Pogacar wins that Remco never/barely have won:
Cobble races and huge mountain stages
 
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Sep 1, 2023
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Barely.
Also winning such a stage from break and not from GC group is two different things.
One can perhaps say that it’s more in favor of Remcos diversity but that’s because Pogacar (so far) always has been too good to end up going in breaks.
If Pog wants go stage hunting, he could sit up in some stages.
Remco is better than Pog losing time.🤣
 
Yes he did.
But that’s not relevant at all to this discussion about his diversity of wins.
Diversity is not just a matter of "win types" but also of getting out of your comfort zone.

Pogacar is undoubtedly the more diverse rider but if, say, Quintana or Higuita won a sprint that would be more diverse than the wins an all-rounder displays. That's why Quintana's charisma, baring his introvert personality, got a boost once he proved to hold his own on crosswinds.

That was my point about Poels: his win, as a climber, against Remco, someone who can rival Roglic in some mountain sprints, has a very high diversity value.
 
Diversity is not just a matter of "win types" but also of getting out of your comfort zone.

Pogacar is undoubtedly the more diverse rider but if, say, Quintana or Higuita won a sprint that would be more diverse than the wins an all-rounder displays. That's why Quintana's charisma, baring his introvert personality, got a boost once he proved to hold his own on crosswinds.

That was my point about Poels: his win, as a climber, against Remco, someone who can rival Roglic in some mountain sprints, has a very high diversity value.

Just admit you made a bad joke. It can happen to the best of us.

I would probably have pointed out how WVA is just as known for losing in the most extreme diverse ways, if I had decided to make a joke on this topic, which I didn't.
 
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Just admit you made a bad joke. It can happen to the best of us.

I would probably have pointed out how WVA is just as known for losing in the most extreme diverse ways, if I had decided to make a joke on this topic, which I didn't.
Did you honestly expected Wout Poels to win a sprint against that small bunch? Everyone was expecting Remco to win it. Brain against brawl matters when you make an assessment of "diversity".
 
Did you honestly expected Wout Poels to win a sprint against that small bunch? Everyone was expecting Remco to win it. Brain against brawl matters when you make an assessment of "diversity".

No, I didn't think he would win, neither did I expect Pelayo Sanchez to finish third after he started pulling in the last km, but I don't think it says too much about Remco's overall qualities.

Also Poels didn't win it in a straight up sprint. He won due to a late attack.

Andreas Klöden was not a more "diverse" rider than Samu nor a better sprinter, despite him once beating Samu in a sprint.
 
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No, I didn't think he would win, neither did I expect Pelayo Sanchez to finish third after he started pulling in the last km, but I don't think it says too much about Remco's overall qualities.

Also Poels didn't win it in a straight up sprint. He won due to a late attack.

Andreas Klöden was not a more "diverse" rider than Samu nor a better sprinter, despite him once beating Samu in a sprint.
I'm not talking about Remco's overall qualities here. I'm addressing more generally what should count as diversity in winning for a given rider and I'm saying that Remco's outstanding overall qualities are pretty much in line with his expected wins: flat solos and TTs and some sprints lately. If he in the future wins a mountain top stage while riding with the real GT contenders, that would upgrade his diversity by a lot.

In the same way, Nibali's San Remo win does not need to happen more than once in order to grant him a wide value in diversity. He turned the script in a race allegedly made for sprinters on its head by cunning.
 
I think that's called revisionist history
Sure, but I do not have an answer, I'm just looking for one.

What's diversity in winning? Is it just the win types (puncheurs, mountain sprint, sprint, solos, TTs, descents, etc) one collects or shouldn't an outlier have more value for a given rider than for others? Cavendish winning a punchy stage, Quintana winning a sprint or Pogacar winning cobbles seem to have more diversity value than Roglic winning a mountain sprint or Remco making a solo (again). Just my thoughts.
 
Remco is the rider with the highest competitive advantage of any rider in the peleton. His engine and aero combined give him Ganna-like TT speed on the flats with only 70% of Ganna's weight. Add to that, that is aero and small frame reduce the effect of slipstreaming in his wheel and you understand why Bardet, De Gendt, Campenaerts, Valverde and many others say Remco surprises everyone beyond anything they have seen from the other of the "Big 6".

This advantage has given him the ability to ridicule the whole junior peleton and win on average 10 races in his first 5 years as a pro including a semi-recovery year. He won 15 times solo, 12 TT's and 11 stage races. Wins include 10 one-day races and 9 mountain top finishes. He got 5 of the 6 WC/EC/NC championship jerseys. His win rate ~19% (including all stages where he didn't intend to go for a win), only surpassed in the current era by Pogacar's ~21% who is a year older. He has won 42% of all stage races he entered, 34% of all one-day-races (!) and 33% of all TT's. So he definitely is a hell of a one-trick pony!

Remco was initially a rider that couldn't descend, had barely technical skills, couldn't sprint and had (and still has) issues when it comes to tempo changes and optimal recovery. This is no big surprise knowing his background. These are all things that can be exploited in the pro peleton. In his case it was almost career ending when he made that mistake and fell of a bridge. However, it's no surprise that he can make big progress here and he does so. This broadens his "tricks". I would not be surprised that if he has a very long career without big injuries, his number of wins will be huge, maybe top 3 of all time. Regarding GT wins, I am not that sure. There a few riders with more tricks when it comes to performing well in the mountains and the team plays a big role too. So maybe he wins only a few of them but I don't doubt he will be a huge challenger for them, in particular in the GT's with a less mountain-focussed roadmap.