Thanks Captain Hindsight.An example of a an old quote of someone who didn't believe a WT victory would be possible....
Also, this is January, when he was indeed getting dropped in WT races.
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Thanks!
Thanks Captain Hindsight.An example of a an old quote of someone who didn't believe a WT victory would be possible....
Don't know who captain hindsight is; but you made the quote beginning of Januari; Remco didn't even race at the pro level at that moment. And first WT was only end of Feb.Thanks Captain Hindsight.
Also, this is January, when he was indeed getting dropped in WT races.
At least he finished before Richie in his first WT hill stage....Re:
Does the poor sod really think he good hold Richie's wheel on Willunga Hill
It is at least in Belgium a bit of a strange situation. Actually most races where u23 race, are open for all. So they race often against elite -but not necessarily pro -riders. Pure U23 races are scarce. You have to look at higher ranked races to find specific U23 races (like Ronde Van Vlaanderen en LBL). The local circuit is mostly open for all. Which actually means that if you are less talented you will race often adults. The talented U23 can race the higher ranked pure U23 races....
That being said, I wonder sometimes if the U23s being a seperate category is all that great for a young riders development.
Yes, i see you have absolutely no idea what was intended. I will leave it for all the people who think ITT stands for Individual Time Traveling.2014?
Yes, i see you have absolutely no idea what was intended. I will leave it for all the people who think ITT stands for Individual Time Traveling.
That being said: many riders are not up to their real potential at 19. The difference in the speed the different riders bodies takes to become adult is big. Many of them haven't even shaved yet. Where as the current junior world champion won with a full beard. Making him 2 to even 3 years physical older than some of his competitors. So yes the world champion might be ready to race adults (and maybe hardly improve the coming years), versus some boys with higher potentials are definitely not. For them the U23 is a gift.
If someone pointed it out to me in a less obnoxious way, i might as wellWell, personally I'd like if someone pointed such a typo out to me…
I try to remember; when I edit do all readers of the thread get an update? So I post something; somebody reads the post, I update those who read get an the update? I tried to find in the past something on the do's and don't's in this forum but didn't find something. Is it out there?Walter, on the bottom left of every post you make, there is an "edit" button.
That said, i think they would probably be better off making the U23 into U21 for men as well. Now you have physically fullgrown men, beating 18 year old boys who just came over from junior ranks. Look at this years Tour de l'Avenir, where the winner is actually of the same generation of Bernal, Lambrecht, Sivakov... and the only reason he won was because he waited long enough
In that case people do not get notified that there is an edit/update. However, in such a case it would be best to plan what you're going to say a bit beforehand. Most forums don't like it when you double post, let alone tripple or quadruple post. Though, for me, it's just a friendly pointer. Do with it as you will, i'm not an admin or a mod. Up to you to determine when a message is "worth" a new post, or when you can just add it to a post you just made.I try to remember; when I edit do all readers of the thread get an update? So I post something; somebody reads the post, I update those who read get an the update? I tried to find in the past something on the do's and don't's in this forum but didn't find something. Is it out there?
Personally, i don't think that if you have to wait until you turn 23 before moving to the pro ranks, before showing signs that you have what it takes, that it will all of a sudden happen at that age. Or even that it's somehow a sign of quality, because you managed to beat the guy in 2nd place who is 2 years younger, and the guy in 3rd place who is 3 years younger. Also, i wasn't talking about Sivakov (who proved himself many times over in the U23, before the age of 21), but about Tobias Foss. If you need more time as a cyclist, you can try your luck in the amateur ranks and further mature there.So what? The alternative is that sivakov would have stopped because he was not good enough to be pro at 21 and too old for the other category. Is that what you aim for? The U23 is just a waiting chamber for pro and those to realise they won't be pro. You just shouldn't take the result in U23 too seriously. Those that are ready will move to pro level sooner. So the quality of the better U23 remains constant. And then once more; not because you are a good U23 you become a good pro; the level is different once again from U23 to pro level. Jan Bakelants won tour de l'avenir but never became a GT contender.
It is not the rider who decides he is ready, but a team that will descide you can turn pro. Like a Van Avermaet who only became pro in the year he turned 23. Some riders just need the extra yeads to reach a pro level. Nothing wrong there.Personally, i don't think that if you have to wait until you turn 23 before moving to the pro ranks
That is the case if you take the results too serious. The result of the race says just say that racer A is better then racer B at that moment.Or even that it's somehow a sign of quality, because you managed to beat the guy in 2nd place who is 2 years younger, and the guy in 3rd place who is 3 years younger
Was corrected before you saved the message; I have found the edit button.... ;-)., i wasn't talking about Sivakov
We should probably continue this debate in the U23/Juniors topic, but i will say this. When the U23 was created, it made a lot of sense at that time. Now, we are a decade or two down the line, and teams start scouting these riders a lot earlier. Technology has leapt forward, training methods, medical data, all that jazz is now lightyears ahead of what it was in the 90s-00s. If you are physically "fit" to become a pro cyclist, you can know by the time you are 20. And so do the coaches, the doctors and the teams. At this time, what can set you apart, is the mental aspect. You can punch above your weight by willpower, or you can fade into obscurity with the best genes imaginable if you can't cope with the pressure. But you are not going to become a good pro if your body isn't made for it, just because you get to wait until you are 23. As for that mental aspect, "outwaiting" your more talented peers, in order to strike against the next generation isn't what i imagine to be the foundation of a great champion. That doesn't mean he can't become a good pro cyclist, but i could have told you that 3 years ago as well.It is not the rider who decides he is ready, but a team that will descide you can turn pro. Like a Van Avermaet who only became pro in the year he turned 23. Some riders just need the extra yeads to reach a pro level. Nothing wrong there.
That is the case if you take the results too serious. The result of the race says just say that racer A is better then racer B at that moment.
Maybe the racer who is older finished his master degrees where as a young racer just lives at the expences of his parents and trained twice as much. In U23 it is never just the result that counts. Ilan Van Wilder lives almost as 100% pro; Mauri Sevenants who is older is about to finish a decent degree. Who will be the better rider if you compare their results today?
Was corrected before you saved the message; I have found the edit button.... ;-).
The story how it is told now. In the ITT, the timing was hand stopped. Remco passed another rider while crossing the line and they took his time too late. According to his GPS data recording he should have won....Vacek beats Evenepoel with one second in the MTT. Not too huge a surprise, as Vacek also beat him on the only real mountain stage the juniors have done this year in Course de la Paix. He was always going to be the biggest danger for Evenepoel in Innsbruck.
Interesting. Hadn't heard about that before, but on the other hand, it also doesn't matter that much. It was the second race that day iirc, and Remco had already won the regular stage earlier that day with an attack where he was doing literally 100% of the work, while Vacek was cowering somewhere in the peloton. Had Vacek made the same effort as Remco, he would not have won the ITT anyway.The story how it is not told now. In the ITT, the timing was hand stopped. Remco passed another rider in the while crossing the line and they took his time too late. According to his GPS data recording he should have won....
Questioning his potential as a GC rider, which is undoubtedly there, seems a bit laughable after all what he's accomplished as a junior and in his first year as a pro. That doesn't mean he'll become the GT worldbeater he hopes to be. But he's certainly free to dream. If not him, then who? He only finished a few seconds behind Grossschartner on the MTF in Turkey. He finished only a few seconds behind Dumoulin on the first MTF in Quatar (and ahead a lot of Sivakov, Nibali, Kwiatkowski...). Acting like he has shown nothing that indicates he has potential as a GC rider is simply disingenuous.
GC rider sure, no doubt.
But I believe GT potential is something that can only be tested in practice. The critical point is regeneration ability, which I think no 1-day or 1-week-race can measure; only being on the edge for 3 weeks straight without exploding (or not exploding too much) can tell. Some athletes have that, some don't, some mediocre riders are better at that than ones that look superior on paper.
I believe though!
Thanks for this in depth and well thought out analysis. We'll keep you posted.Is there are more unsympathetic figure in cycling than this guy? Everything about the kid seems off.
Is there are more unsympathetic figure in cycling than this guy?
And what is specific unsympathetic?Is there are more unsympathetic figure in cycling than this guy? Everything about the kid seems off.