Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What's the general mood in belgian sports news, cautious/cautiously optimistic/very optimistic?

Renaat Schotte is doing his utter most "stinky" best to keep his claim alive that Remco "once" told him that he would not be riding for GC, and that he believes him when he said he would work for Almeida. The fact that Almeida might very well leave the team in a few months and still hasn't signed a contract extension hasn't crossed his mind, or that we are now 8 weeks later, and a lot in Evenepoel's prep and form might have changed. Or simply the fact that his teammates so far are contradicting that, and two team directors have said Remco has a free role and can see how far he gets.

So there is the part of the press that keeps quoting this old interview by Schotte (since it was only published a week or so ago, while actually 2 months old), and there is the part of the press that uses their brain and think Remco will indeed try to find out how far he can go. Nobody is saying he can or is going to win, but you can feel the anticipation. De Cauwer, basically the Flemish godfather of cycling, said he feels he can podium from the info he's been fed.

He's not serious, he's jokingly claiming there's no proof VdP or VA would beat him in a mass sprint because that scenario hasn't happend yet.

Damn.

 

[Bonimenier]

You claim he is better than MvDP at what he does - but how many times has he actually beaten him in a direct fight?

He actually won 2 stages and a GC in a race where they both participated while MVDP only finished ahead of him in the 2 races where Remco DNFed

But seriously, how many races are there that are made for both of them? Strade and maybe some of the Ardennes classics? That's pretty much it. Besides their ability to go solo they are completely different riders.

 

[yaco]

Lots of bluster in this thread - Can Remco ride multiple mountains in a stage, day after day - That is the key metric which may not be resolved at the Giro.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Article with an interview with his father, how they discovered Remco might have a knack for cycling (out of the blue doing a solo trip of 120km at nearly 35km/h on dad's old bike), about why he left PSV to be with his mother who was ill.
https://translate.google.com/transl...-terug-hij-was-nog-maar-een-kind-voor-die-val

Interview with Evenepoel's trainer, explaining what makes him so special compared to other cyclists. The fact that he can assume an aero position, while being able to keep pushing the same watts. Other cyclists lose power when assuming such a position. Pelgrim states Evenepoel's raw numbers aren't that spectacular, but because of his small frame and high power efficiency in his aero position, he is able to make the difference.
https://translate.google.com/transl...willen-geen-stappen-overslaan-in-zijn-herstel

 

[houtdffan]

He has the capacity to do that, but he won't do that unless he really needs to. In Burgos, he rode away at 2k from the finish. The first day, he actually tried to go from far, but the team told him to sit up. In Algarve he attacked at 500m from the line and put the competition away in the ITT. You can do stuff like that in a 1 week race that doesn't matter that much, but to do that in a GT, where efforts like that will come back to bite you in the ass down the line, is not so smart. And i think he will only do that if he really needs to, to go all in. Go for broke. If he needs to make up 3 minutes in the final week, and he thinks he has a shot to TT away from the group of favorites on rolling terrain, he'll go for it. He himself mentioned the way Froome won the Giro in 2018.

He doesn't even have to go 50 km or more from the line. Just attack 5-7km from the line, like was common 10-15 years ago.

If everyone has to pick up the pace from farther away, they all should be suffering from the fatigue. Or are they going to let Evenepoel ride away and gain minutes and hope he blows big time in the final week?

 

[spalco]

Yeah, "just" do that.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I'm surprised to see Remco as 3rd favourite for Stage 1 of the Giro. An out of form Ganna is favourite and then an in form Cavagna. Is SkyBet giving away free money here?

 

[bNator]

True. I also don't believe van Aert and van der Poel are better sprinters than Evenepoel. They might win a sprint against him in a reduced group one day, but i'm talking about a real bunch sprint here. I mean, i haven't seen it yet. I'll believe it when they can beat Remco when all of them sprint in a good old fashioned mass sprint.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but reading your post, the only thing i can agree on is that we/people should be careful what to expect in the Giro. Other than that, your post reads like someone who hasn't seen him race in Poland, Burgos, San Sebastian, Adriatica Ionica, Baloise Belgium Tour, Tour of Germany, San Juan, Algarve or simply trying to deny what's right in front of you.

Usually, the burden of proof would be on the one that claims to be better. We can't just say he's the best until proven otherwise. Actually, it's just the other way around.

But you are correct - there's plenty of races that he attended which I didn't see. It's still not that relevant for our discussion which is that it's a bit optimistic to proclaim him as the main favourite based on what we know so far. I'm very much looking forward to this year's Giro to see what he's capable of...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Usually, the burden of proof would be on the one that claims to be better. We can't just say he's the best until proven otherwise. Actually, it's just the other way around.

But you are correct - there's plenty of races that he attended which I didn't see. It's still not that relevant for our discussion which is that it's a bit optimistic to proclaim him as the main favourite based on what we know so far. I'm very much looking forward to this year's Giro to see what he's capable of...

That wasn't your point. You were claiming/insinuating he is not better at solo efforts than van der Poel.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG5kx6olwNM&t=16m
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n871v2M8gCs&t=960s
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gytm7WhGZik&t=75m
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7yeNiqg-Qs&t=6240s
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7yeNiqg-Qs&t=5700s
https://tiz-cycling.io/videos/tour-of-poland-2020-stage-4-full-stage/
https://tiz-cycling.io/videos/vuelta-a-burgos-2020-stage-3-full-stage-spanish/
https://tiz-cycling.io/videos/baloise-belgium-tour-2019-stage-4-full-stage/
https://tiz-cycling.io/videos/baloise-belgium-tour-2019-stage-2-full-stage/
https://tiz-cycling.io/videos/tour-of-germany-2019-stage-2-full-stage/

 

[red_flanders]

Usually, the burden of proof would be on the one that claims to be better.

Burden of proof is simple. Anyone making a claim has the burden of proof. Those who have the position of not being convinced by a claim have none. But if they make a counter claim, they have a burden of proof for that.

 

[VDB44]

Guys, it's all a smokescreen, Remco is ready for this Giro and without crashes he's gonna fight for pink, simple as that.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1389629440699871232

View: https://twitter.com/BeicioCymruRhys/status/1389629440699871232

 

[red_flanders]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1389629440699871232

View: https://twitter.com/BeicioCymruRhys/status/1389629440699871232

The world would be an amazing place if those two were actually having that argument.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

According to Thijs Zonneveld, analyst from den Aldi, Evenepoel can no longer timetrial. He thinks his crash and injury will prevent him from assuming his trademark ITT position, and he has found proof of this, in the fact that Evenepoel will not attend the Belgian national championships ITT. No other possible explanation for him to skip the national ITT. That Evenepoel already stated to be going on altitude back in february, before it was known that the NC ITT would be moved up the schedule, probably has nothing to do with it. I'm eager to find out what happened to van Aert, who is also not going to defend his national title due to altitude training.

Either way, maybe saturday we'll know.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

According to Thijs Zonneveld, analyst from den Aldi, Evenepoel can no longer timetrial. He thinks his crash and injury will prevent him from assuming his trademark ITT position, and he has found proof of this, in the fact that Evenepoel will not attend the Belgian national championships ITT. No other possible explanation for him to skip the national ITT. That Evenepoel already stated to be going on altitude back in february, before it was known that the NC ITT would be moved up the schedule, probably has nothing to do with it. I'm eager to find out what happened to van Aert, who is also not going to defend his national title due to altitude training.

Either way, maybe saturday we'll know.

I thought those two were already picked for the Belgian Olympic team for the ITT. Did the article say anything about that?
Maybe I won't put money on Remco to win stage one of the Giro then.

 

[Parker]

I thought those two were already picked for the Belgian Olympic team for the ITT. Did the article say anything about that?

Do Belgium have any other noted TTers? Plus there's the rule (I don't know its current form) that the TT riders have to do the road race

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Do Belgium have any other noted TTers? Plus there's the rule (I don't know its current form) that the TT riders have to do the road race

Campanaerts but he's not a medal threat.
Yeah, I think you're right about the Olympic selection criteria.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I thought those two were already picked for the Belgian Olympic team for the ITT. Did the article say anything about that?
Maybe I won't put money on Remco to win stage one of the Giro then.

Yes, they were already picked months ago, but of course, nobody then knew (and we still don't) how Remco would recover. Belgian national coach Vanthourenhout did put Campenaerts up "as reserve", in case Remco or Wout would not be 100% fit. But the Olympics is further away. Remco also did some ITT tests last week with the national coach and his trainer from DQT, and i have heard nothing of rumblings or rumors that he was having any difficulties, but Zonneveld thinks otherwise.
It wasn't said in an article, but in a podcast. He also didn't specify whether he thought Evenepoel would "just for now" be unable to assume his ITT position, or for the rest of his career, or whether he thought he'd get ready by the time the Olympics roll by. He says he's convinced he can't take pink in the first ITT, and that his hip fracture will give him the most issues on a TT bike. If Evenepoel believes he can take pink, he also has to "be able" to ride the BN ITT.

Podcast | Thijs Zonneveld blikt vooruit op de Giro: ‘Laten we hopen op net zoveel spektakel als vorig jaar’

Komende zaterdag gaat de 104de editie van de Giro d’Italia van start met de proloog van 8,6 kilometer door Turijn. Zin om vast in de stemming te komen? Hidde van Warmerdam en Thijs Zonneveld nemen je mee in hun voorbeschouwing op de Giro.

www.ad.nl

Do Belgium have any other noted TTers? Plus there's the rule (I don't know its current form) that the TT riders have to do the road race

Van Wilder, same profile as Evenepoel, finished 4th just 3 days ago, beating Dennis and Ganna on a hilly course. Was bronze medalist at last years U23 EU ITT. There is obviously Campenaerts, who is a double European champion, world hour record holder and bronze medalist WC 2018. There is Lampaert, who has won WT ITT's. There is also De Gendt, who rides great ITT's during stage races but not so much at championships.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

According to Thijs Zonneveld, analyst from den Aldi, Evenepoel can no longer timetrial. He thinks his crash and injury will prevent him from assuming his trademark ITT position, and he has found proof of this, in the fact that Evenepoel will not attend the Belgian national championships ITT. No other possible explanation for him to skip the national ITT. That Evenepoel already stated to be going on altitude back in february, before it was known that the NC ITT would be moved up the schedule, probably has nothing to do with it. I'm eager to find out what happened to van Aert, who is also not going to defend his national title due to altitude training.

Either way, maybe saturday we'll know.

It would be somewhat strange that Deceuninck would sign him to a 5 year deal if he couldn’t TT

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

 

[Panda Claws]

According to Thijs Zonneveld, analyst from den Aldi, Evenepoel can no longer timetrial. He thinks his crash and injury will prevent him from assuming his trademark ITT position, and he has found proof of this, in the fact that Evenepoel will not attend the Belgian national championships ITT. No other possible explanation for him to skip the national ITT. That Evenepoel already stated to be going on altitude back in february, before it was known that the NC ITT would be moved up the schedule, probably has nothing to do with it. I'm eager to find out what happened to van Aert, who is also not going to defend his national title due to altitude training.

Either way, maybe saturday we'll know.

Not that I think that Zonneveld makes a great case but it has been known since late february that the ITT Championships would be two days earlier than before. I do think it is quite of an odd choice by both Evenepoel and Van Aert to just skip it alltogether. You'd think it would be little problem to do the altitude stage half a week earlier if you already knew about the changed date since february. Especially since they have to ride the road race anyway. But perhaps I'm underestimating the difficulties that come with changing up the date of the altitude stage even slightly.

Anyhow like you said if what Zonneveld says is true we will know soon enough and I doubt Evenepoel would go to the Olympics if this were true. And else we have yet another reason to distregard Zonneveld in the future.

 

[TomBonnen2005]

ITT test : I do not see any difference between this picture and his pre-Lombardia ITT position. I doubt his team would hide such a key information while saying he fully recovered. The Olympics? His test was done in presence of the national coach, there is nothing to hide anymore. The Giro? It would be better to manage expectations upfront than having to explain a counter performance afterwards...

 

[King Of The Wolds]

For me, the biggest 2 tests are the ones that Remco still doesn't know the answers to.

1. Can he handle 3 weeks?
2. When the competent descending GC contenders - of which, Bernal and Yates fit the description - push it on a slippery, technical descent, will Remco wish he was wearing AG2R bib shorts?

 

[spalco]

For me, the biggest 2 tests are the ones that Remco still doesn't know the answers to.

1. Can he handle 3 weeks?
2. When the competent descending GC contenders - of which, Bernal and Yates fit the description - push it on a slippery, technical descent, will Remco wish he was wearing AG2R bib shorts?

#2 I think is a lesser concern. He doesn't seem to be the kind of person who mulls over things. And if he's strong enough to "handle" 3 weeks, he should also have the confidence to drop off and catch the others again if he needs to on a descent.

 

[tobydawq]

According to Thijs Zonneveld, analyst from den Aldi, Evenepoel can no longer timetrial. He thinks his crash and injury will prevent him from assuming his trademark ITT position, and he has found proof of this, in the fact that Evenepoel will not attend the Belgian national championships ITT. No other possible explanation for him to skip the national ITT. That Evenepoel already stated to be going on altitude back in february, before it was known that the NC ITT would be moved up the schedule, probably has nothing to do with it. I'm eager to find out what happened to van Aert, who is also not going to defend his national title due to altitude training.

Either way, maybe saturday we'll know.

He'll be lucky if he he doesn't end up with the same fate as Hiroki Nishimura two years ago.

Man, that must be the shortest GT career in history.