Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Bonimenier]

Question: Was Remco always angry? I never saw him before giro 2021 (yes I had no idea anyone named Remco existed before giro 2021), but the first thing I learned about him was how angry he was.

I wouldn't call it angry, but he did always have a temper during races. Even in junior races it was already there.

 

[noob]

Meanwhile after copppa Bernocchi Remco was very complimentary of the work of Fausto Masnada in helping him to victory. Interesting.

Speaking of Masnada I was just reading his instagram where he said he and Remco are usually roommates so I guess they're close. Masnada seems to be the sweetest guy really!

 

[noob]

I wouldn't call it angry, but he did always have a temper during races. Even in junior races it was already there.

Thanks. That should help me better suss out his character.

 

[peterfin]

I keep thinking about something else completely. Anyone else have thought about that without Remco nearly killing himself last year Almeida would be nowhere. Thanks to Remco crashing Almeida got his breakthrough much faster, just as Vingegaard with Roglič on TdF. But Roglič sees Vingegaard as his younger brother.

No way does Remco feel that way about Almeida. It must feel seriously weird being Remco riding for Almeida. (I would be resentful myself Was I Remco) And yet he did it so well.

Then afterwards on instagram

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The devil is in the details.

It's just a difference in attitude. Remco put a lot of effort in that race and wasn't satisfied with a 2nd place for the team. I think it shows both his winner's mentality and his team spirit. The latter is underrated imho.

 

[noob]

It's just a difference in attitude. Remco put a lot of effort in that race and wasn't satisfied with a 2nd place for the team. I think it shows both his winner's mentality and his team spirit. The latter is underrated imho.

It might be. But still I would completely understand if he wasn't Almeida biggest fan. And it might add to not liking his role in world's either.

Remember an interview where he hoped to be selected for world's saying "after all I have been through".

But I should probably go to sleep as I accidentally just ripped out my own stitches.

 

[Extinction]

I have never raced so I wouldn't know...but can riders really tell after 150km of a 260km race: "Guys, I have only legs for a 5th place today, but not for the win." I imagine it would be almost impossible to tell at that point.

I have raced and you know the state of your legs on any given day from the first turn of the pedals. And even if you feel better into the race, you know if you should have the team all in for you 100% or if it's better to be ready for plan B if necessary. In other words, right from the start or rather from the moment you get out of bed, you know if you're gonna be super or just meh.

 

[Riek s]

It's one thing to say this was probably not the right strategy, but something else if the strategy was Wout, with you working later and you just pretend the strategy is not clear. When there is a team leader and you think you are stronger, it's still common in cycling to accept that hierarchy. And if it already was like that in the Olympics it would make sense for van Aert to state so openly before the worlds there should be one leader this time.
Maybe Wout is lying. But then he must be outright lying, and some of the other Belgian riders should speak out (and I would at least expect the QS-team mates of Remco to do so).

FYI: the bolded part is a lie. Remco said it was unclear the evening before the race and he went to VT and he said --> all for Wout. So Remco went into the race completely for WVA knowing he didn't got a chance. He never said it was unclear in the race itself. He just firmly stated on a question in the show that he was not given any protective role under any circumstance. Which is true, same state by VT and WVA in the later interviews.

The italic part is true and also what Remco did, he rode 30km driving the front group with WVA to bring his leader and co-leader into the final.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

FYI: the bolded part is a lie. Remco said it was unclear the evening before the race and he went to VT and he said --> all for Remco. So Remco went into the race completely for WVA knowing he didn't got a chance. He never said it was unclear in the race itself. He just firmly stated on a question in the show that he was not given any protective role under any circumstance. Which is true, same state by VT and WVA in the later interviews.

The italic part is true and also what Remco did, he rode 30km driving the front group with WVA to bring his leader and co-leader into the final.

You mean "all for Wout".

Question: Was Remco always angry? I never saw him before giro 2021 (yes I had no idea anyone named Remco existed before giro 2021), but the first thing I learned about him was how angry he was.

I think it's more about being impatient and on edge than being angry. But yes, that's been there since the juniors.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Especially interesting that Evenepoel was not supposed to counter any moves that early in the race, according to Van Aert. Seems much more believable to me then the story we first got and apparently was confirmed or "confirmed" in the docu. Because if so, those tactics were hilariously bad.

I don't think WVA is lying, so if you take that as a given either Evenepoel countering those early moves wasn't planned, or it was and WVA was not made aware of those (changed?) plans.

Van Aert is not telling the truth. Any Belgian rider, except Van Aert and Stuyven, had the mission to react on attacks. The first time, nobody reacted. So, Evenepoel did. As agreed. But he shouldn't have been riding so fast with the Frenchman. The second time, Evenepoel did again what was asked. But there again, he rode way too long and hard in the lead. As we saw later in the Sporza-documentary, the coach Van Thourenhout was pleased with the fact that Evenepoel had jumped along.
That is completely contradictory to what Van Aert claims. But the national coach also thought Evenepoel was leading too fast. But that's another discussion.
Conclusion. Evenepoel was too impetuous in carrying out his task. But he mostly did what the coach asked. Van Aert, for his part, now tells lies to cover up his own failure and the concealment of his bad legs.

 

[Netserk]

Van Aert is not telling the truth. Any Belgian rider, except Van Aert and Stuyven, had the mission to react on attacks. The first time, nobody reacted. So, Evenepoel did. As agreed. But he shouldn't have been riding so fast with the Frenchman. The second time, Evenepoel did again what was asked. But there again, he rode way too long and hard in the lead. As we saw later in the Sporza-documentary, the coach Van Thourenhout was pleased with the fact that Evenepoel had jumped along.
That is completely contradictory to what Van Aert claims. But the national coach also thought Evenepoel was leading too fast. But that's another discussion.
Conclusion. Evenepoel was too impetuous in carrying out his task. But he mostly did what the coach asked. Van Aert, for his part, now tells lies to cover up his own failure and the concealment of his bad legs.

I have left out the part where he was told not to pull in that group but did it anyway.

Either he was unable to understand his role and how to fulfil it, or he didn't care.

 

[Bardamu]

He wanted to show the world how strong his legs were, not to make Van Aert champion.

 

[saganftw]

Van Aert is not telling the truth. Any Belgian rider, except Van Aert and Stuyven, had the mission to react on attacks. The first time, nobody reacted. So, Evenepoel did. As agreed. But he shouldn't have been riding so fast with the Frenchman. The second time, Evenepoel did again what was asked. But there again, he rode way too long and hard in the lead. As we saw later in the Sporza-documentary, the coach Van Thourenhout was pleased with the fact that Evenepoel had jumped along.
That is completely contradictory to what Van Aert claims. But the national coach also thought Evenepoel was leading too fast. But that's another discussion.
Conclusion. Evenepoel was too impetuous in carrying out his task. But he mostly did what the coach asked. Van Aert, for his part, now tells lies to cover up his own failure and the concealment of his bad legs.

i find very hard to believe that the tactics were everyone except van aert and stuyven follow attacks, it would have been a colossal mistake from a coach to have evenpoel be in that group of riders because AT WORST he is still your 3rd best rider, so you save him for maybe last 50km to fullfil that role of reacting to attacks because there is always chance that the leader wasnt up to fight and thats exactly what happened

and on part of evenepoel, in his position (3rd best if not second behind van aert) it would never occured to me to go on an attack 200km from the finish let alone pull hard - what the hell is that strategy? this is not junior racing, thats really bad judgement...for the sake of argument lets just say that that was truly his role (which is extremely stupid in itself) my first reaction would be "no way im chasing breaks 200km from the finish"

to me it looks like either coach fed up by making bad decisions or perhaps no decisions and then evenepoel fed up by trying to go into break

im not gonna go as far as claiming he did it on purpose to show how strong he was, but im certainly questioning his judgement - after all if he really wanted to show everybody he could just wait for alaphillipe to attack, everybody knew it was coming

 

[Red Rick]

I have left out the part where he was told not to pull in that group but did it anyway.

Either he was unable to understand his role and how to fulfil it, or he didn't care.

Once again, almost incomprehensible daftness levels required.

I think he just didn't give a ***. Same as with the Olympics.

 

[Extinction]

He wanted to show the world how strong his legs were, not to make Van Aert champion.

Van Aert wanted to deceive the world about how strong his legs were to not make Evenepoel champion.

 

[noob]

I think it's more about being impatient and on edge than being angry. But yes, that's been there since the juniors.

Yes this. The reason I asked is because I just wanted to know if it was character or the accident. I like sussing out characters. I don't think it's his age that's the issue. He's more just like the McEnroe of cycling.

 

[yaco]

Remco made two mistakes in the World's - When he chased down the breakaways he needed to sit on or soft pedal - It was noticeable that De Clerc spoke to him several times when they were in the breakaway - When the final selection was made and they got one minute on the peleton, he needed to drop the power as the peleton were never coming back.

 

[Extinction]

Remco made two mistakes in the World's - When he chased down the breakaways he needed to sit on or soft pedal - It was noticeable that De Clerc spoke to him several times when they were in the breakaway - When the final selection was made and they got one minute on the peleton, he needed to drop the power as the peleton were never coming back.

Remco was told that under now circumstances could he be a factor in the final and he raced accordingly, following team orders. The team should never have sent him into early breaks, while deciding it wanted him in the final. You can't have it both ways. As Luke Rowe said...Go f-ck yourself!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

i find very hard to believe that the tactics were everyone except van aert and stuyven follow attacks, it would have been a colossal mistake from a coach to have evenpoel be in that group of riders because AT WORST he is still your 3rd best rider, so you save him for maybe last 50km to fullfil that role of reacting to attacks because there is always chance that the leader wasnt up to fight and thats exactly what happened

and on part of evenepoel, in his position (3rd best if not second behind van aert) it would never occured to me to go on an attack 200km from the finish let alone pull hard - what the hell is that strategy? this is not junior racing, thats really bad judgement...for the sake of argument lets just say that that was truly his role (which is extremely stupid in itself) my first reaction would be "no way im chasing breaks 200km from the finish"

to me it looks like either coach fed up by making bad decisions or perhaps no decisions and then evenepoel fed up by trying to go into break

im not gonna go as far as claiming he did it on purpose to show how strong he was, but im certainly questioning his judgement - after all if he really wanted to show everybody he could just wait for alaphillipe to attack, everybody knew it was coming

I do think he was trying to make a point. Either that he shouldn't have been a mere domestique or that the tactics sucked or both, while still strictly operating within what he had been told to do... or about. The fact that both DS's weren't fuming when he dropped off in Leuven, but were actually rather happy with his overall performance, shows to me that he didn't flat out do the complete opposite of what he was supposed to do, as Van Aert is insinuating.

But this entire issue goes back to Vanthourenhout not understanding Remco's true quality as a disruptor and failing to use that as a weapon. By clipping his wings before the race, he basically lost whatever advantage he could bring to the table. Having Evenepoel do his own thing, would not have been bad for Van Aert. And it shouldn't have been an issue to risk Evenepoel taking a shot, because it shouldn't have mattered which Belgian takes the prize. If he failed, Van Aert should have been in the position to take advantage. Now it seemed they rather had another country become WC, than another Belgian.

 

[peterfin]

Once again, almost incomprehensible daftness levels required.

I think he just didn't give a ***. Same as with the Olympics.

If he didn't care at all, there was no reason to go all out for Van Aert when he joined him later on. I also wonder why he didn't stop pulling immediately after presumably seeing that sign that demanded to stop riding but there is no reason to think he wanted to do bad. I assume that he interpreted it as "pulling less hard". The group got caught while he later showed that he had the power to make a 2 min gap so relatively speaking "not riding" was "riding less" in his eyes, enough to spare some energy for the final. It was only later that he went all out when Van Aert asked him to pull. Again, you can argue why he didn't dose it a bit. After all he got an almost two minutes lead? The problem is that Remco didn't know the time gap (no earphones) and Van Aert didn't tell him to go slower. All he heard was the incredible cheering of the public. Van Aert told afterwards that it was almost impossible to talk to each other because of the public. I can imagine that public made Remco drive harder than he should at times. Apparently Alaphilippe was also energized by the public. It gave him extra wings.

 

[IndianCyclist]

The dude is a sigma cyclist

 

[Oldermanish]

I have raced and you know the state of your legs on any given day from the first turn of the pedals. And even if you feel better into the race, you know if you should have the team all in for you 100% or if it's better to be ready for plan B if necessary. In other words, right from the start or rather from the moment you get out of bed, you know if you're gonna be super or just meh.

The rare exception does happen. Lemond won the World RR title when he felt horrible the entire way until 3 miles from the finish climbing the last hill, bridging to Fignon and then to the group of Rooks, Claveroylet and Koneyshev for the wet downhill. Sean Kelly joined them. Lemond realized everyone remaining were as shredded as he felt.

That account convinced me to stick in several races that I'd thought were gone.

 

[Bonimenier]

The rare exception does happen. Lemond won the World RR title when he felt horrible the entire way until 3 miles from the finish climbing the last hill, bridging to Fignon and then to the group of Rooks, Claveroylet and Koneyshev for the wet downhill. Sean Kelly joined them. Lemond realized everyone remaining were as shredded as he felt.

That account convinced me to stick in several races that I'd thought were gone.

You actually hear riders say quite often that the legs weren't feeling great in the beginning (or even a larger part) of the race in their victory interview after the finish. Seeing that this is the Remco thread, I could give him as an example in San Sebastian 2 years ago. His first words in the interview were: "I didn't feel good the whole day...". So I'm not sure what Extinction is really on about with that argument.

 

[Andre]

Yes this. The reason I asked is because I just wanted to know if it was character or the accident. I like sussing out characters. I don't think it's his age that's the issue. He's more just like the McEnroe of cycling.

I love McEnroe

 

[Andre]

Get rid of Vanthourenhout

 

[BlueRoads]

You actually hear riders say quite often that the legs weren't feeling great in the beginning (or even a larger part) of the race in their victory interview after the finish. Seeing that this is the Remco thread, I could give him as an example in San Sebastian 2 years ago. His first words in the interview were: "I didn't feel good the whole day...". So I'm not sure what Extinction is really on about with that argument.

Yeah, I constantly hear the commentators here (ex-racers) say that often the legs just "open up" at a certain point.