- Feb 1, 2011
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Yeah that too. I watched that live too and had flashbacks to wouter weylandt, i literally thought he's dead and teared up. Coming back from that makes his success even more remarkable.
Yeah that too. I watched that live too and had flashbacks to wouter weylandt, i literally thought he's dead and teared up. Coming back from that makes his success even more remarkable.
Lots of people tend to dislike Evenepoel because of his kind of explosive temper when things don't go well, and it's fair to dislike him for that. Me on the other hand understand that it's his ambition of winning everysingle race he's into and kind of admire that! He's a confident guy, and why shouldn't he, with the amazing record that he has at 22, but some people will see that confidence as arrogance.
Regarding Evenepoel as a GT winner, many people wrongly in my view, stated that he couldn't, based only in his last year performance at the Giro which is complete nonsense because:
A) He had just finished his recovery from a serious injury after his crash
b) Obviously without the optimal preparation
c) without the competitive background needed to be able to sustain the brutal efforts that a 3 weeks race brings
So the common sense tells me that untill he finish 1 GT with the optimal preparation, which he did this time, we can't safely say that he will be a GT contender or not. Until now he showed that he has all needed to be a force to be reckon with in a GT and he only needs to past the test of endurance during 3 weeks and the test of a High Mountain stage to prove it.
If he wins La Vuelta he can surely wins TDF or Giro, despite the profile of La Vuelta being more friendly towards Evenepoel than Giro or TDF he can work what he needs to improve according the GT that he will aim for!
And even if he bonks at some point in this Vuelta and ends up losing it, won't prove that he can't be a GC winning rider in a GT! Every single rider at one time or another bonked so...
Regarding Evenepoel as a GT winner, many people wrongly in my view, stated that he couldn't, based only in his last year performance at the Giro which is complete nonsense because:
A) He had just finished his recovery from a serious injury after his crash
b) Obviously without the optimal preparation
c) without the competitive background needed to be able to sustain the brutal efforts that a 3 weeks race brings
So the common sense tells me that untill he finish 1 GT with the optimal preparation, which he did this time, we can't safely say that he will be a GT contender or not. Until now he showed that he has all needed to be a force to be reckon with in a GT and he only needs to past the test of endurance during 3 weeks and the test of a High Mountain stage to prove it.
If he wins La Vuelta he can surely wins TDF or Giro, despite the profile of La Vuelta being more friendly towards Evenepoel than Giro or TDF he can work what he needs to improve according the GT that he will aim for!
And even if he bonks at some point in this Vuelta and ends up losing it, won't prove that he can't be a GC winning rider in a GT! Every single rider at one time or another bonked so...
- Sep 14, 2020
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That’s a big thing innit. His 2020 season was incredible and then came the crash. Since the I’ll-advised attempt at the Giro it just seems people have jumped into the anti-Remco carriage of the hype train and ridiculed the lad but in essence they’re having a laugh at someone fighting back from a potentially career ending crash. Sad.
And yeah I was watching Lombardia live as well
Well, we're still waiting to have the obsessed Remco-fans admit that the haters, or sceptics as they really should be called were 100% right on the Giro...Because while now the obsessed somehow are trying to turn that GT argumentation around, "of course it doesn't count, it was obvious that would never work", before and during the Giro it was something like this:
Obsessed Remco fan: The Giro is coming, now Remco will win the GT he would have won last year!
Hater: He comes back from a pretty bad crash!
ORF: He wouldn't be starting if he wasn't 100% back!
Hater: But it's his first race of the season...
ORF: He didn't need prep races, he's ready, he's Remco
Hater: Is his climbing good enough?
ORF: Picon Blanco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hater: Eh but, ok ok, forget it, can he hold 3 weeks?
ORF; Of course! He was in form for more than 3 weeks before his crash
Hater: What about big multiple climbs mountain stages?
ORF; Of course he can, it's Remco, baby!
Hater; Hm, sterrato coming, he'll probably suffer there. Adriatica Ionica
ORF; Hater!!! No indication he'll suffer, he was still young, doesn't count, he will be there
Etc etc..... so before demanding retractions, apologies and what not, how about admitting the "haters" were right regarding the Giro?
As for Remco, looks he's really winning this. Didn't expect that, as a sceptic, eh sorry, hater, I thought he'd start well, stay with the best on stage 6, a 5 man group or so, no real idea about yesterday, steep, but didn't really think he would be collapsing, steepness was no problem on the Muro di Sormano, he seems to handle that well enough, but who knows, front group, slightly behind, all seemed possible, then win the TT and depending on how well Roglic recovered from his crash , in red. The way it's going so far I'm was pretty far off, doesn't look like the top Roglic could have prevented Remco from being in red either really (and doesn't matter, like fantasies about Remco wining the 2020 Giro don't matter, those that are there are there, in the conditions they are in, those not, don't count.) And then I expected him to start losing time, finish off the podium, 4-10th or so. Right now looks he's basically one (or even 2) steps above my expectations, if he keeps that up he will not lose any time anywhere. And even if he starts losing a bit later on, his advantage after the TT should be big enough to deal with it. He has shown he can let go and continue at his pace without completely exploding.
4 questions remain:
How will he do in week 3?
How will he handle Sierra Nevada?
One question that won't be answered in this Vuelta, how can he handle back to back hard multiple climbs mountain stages? Of course La Pandera-Sierra Nevada will give some indications on that, but not the definitive answer. Not his fault, he doesn't make the parcours. My suspicion is still that that will be his main weakness in GTs, he's less a natural GC rider than others, Bernal, Pogacar, Ayuso, but could be wrong, he prove he can do that too next year already.
Ronde van Vlaanderen, when will he ride it? He has to, he has to learn to deal with these cobblestones, because the Ronde otherwise really looks perfect for a rider like him.
- Sep 14, 2020
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You went to all the bother of writing a short play whereas if you’d looked back on the thread most people thought it was a very strange thing to do the Giro as a first race back from a massive injury. No doubt you could pull out a few quotes from the thread but some of the trolls leave hype messages.
- Feb 1, 2011
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That's only mostly true imo. There were sceptical voices in the pro-Remco camp here in the weeks before the Giro, and surprise at him going to the Giro without any racing in his legs, but "we" did get swept up in the excitement and went way overboard with the hype that time, yeah.
I don't think you'll find many comments after the Giro in this thread though where it wasn't recognised as a failure.
And that’s one of the things (among others) that’s so great about watching his performances this past week, and at LBL and San Sebastion. We’ve all followed the stories of riders with such awful accidents who never came back fully (if at all), so I think it was natural to wonder, before this season started, whether that would be the case for him. It would also be very natural for HIM to wonder that as well. Whether or not he’s someone who cares about proving his doubters wrong, it must be so satisfying for him to confirm for himself what he’s capable of—and that’s part of the pleasure I’m getting from watching him last week, as well as loving how he has taken the bull by the horns in these mountain stages.
By the end of this vuelta I expect he will have answered all questions but 2. I think he will be strongest for all 3 weeks, he has now unequivocally proven he can do short steep stuff. But can he do multiple hard climbs at altitude back to back with the very best (Bernal, Ving, Pog), and can QS give him a team that can compete in the cauldron and the higher level of the TdF?
Regarding the stages with multiple high mountain climbs, that was a point I raised in the past too, but the reality is we have fewer and fewer of those stages in GTs. Particularly if you consider that the Giro and Tour don’t even have real queen stages (e.g., 2 HCs and 3 cat 1s) in some editions, and Vuelta doesn’t have the same terrain to do those.
Its not that his giro was that bad for somene his age though.. we compare to will prepared guys like Pogacar... but others typically rode a very silent/not entertaining GT.
but after the first 10stages = 2nd in GC
Zoncolan, stage 14 he only lost 1m30 on the Zoncolan against Bernal and was still 7th in GC until stage 16 happened and stage 17 he crashed out. Don't recall what happened on stage 16, but i thought he had trouble and just let it go early and didn't try to hang on.
I can image that if Ayuso has a similar Vuelta as his Giro, we would still be lyrical about Ayuso given his age and his performance in the first week. (and Ayuso did multiple races within 8months of his first GT attempt).
I'm still not convinced he will win this Vuelta. Not because I don't think he can't ride a GT, but because it is still 2 weeks with crashes, tactical warfare, covid, illness. And pogacar has proven that tactics can play a huge role (even though i don't think he was the best). But contador and other great GT riders (enhanced or not) also could do a tactical comeback that no one expected... and Roglic is someone i count under that category. Mas will ride for podium (they need the points, he won't risk anything), but Roglic? that guy will win or break trying... and if he breaks i hope he didn't break Remco as well.
but after the first 10stages = 2nd in GC
Zoncolan, stage 14 he only lost 1m30 on the Zoncolan against Bernal and was still 7th in GC until stage 16 happened and stage 17 he crashed out. Don't recall what happened on stage 16, but i thought he had trouble and just let it go early and didn't try to hang on.
I can image that if Ayuso has a similar Vuelta as his Giro, we would still be lyrical about Ayuso given his age and his performance in the first week. (and Ayuso did multiple races within 8months of his first GT attempt).
I'm still not convinced he will win this Vuelta. Not because I don't think he can't ride a GT, but because it is still 2 weeks with crashes, tactical warfare, covid, illness. And pogacar has proven that tactics can play a huge role (even though i don't think he was the best). But contador and other great GT riders (enhanced or not) also could do a tactical comeback that no one expected... and Roglic is someone i count under that category. Mas will ride for podium (they need the points, he won't risk anything), but Roglic? that guy will win or break trying... and if he breaks i hope he didn't break Remco as well.
Well, but I guess I wouldn't find any posts admitting that the haters were right. Since now it seems the obsessed demand retractions from haters.
And actually the Giro IMO wasn't even a failure. Very strong start, showed he was indeed back. Zoncolan was a decent performance in his first GT at the end of the second week, unkown territory. And I was impressed with how he came back on the stage he later crashed out after being dropped early, showed character, showed that even though he had collapsed completely on the way to Cortina he wasn't going to take it easy for the remaining stages. He would have lost quite a bit of time again that day on the final climb, he was done for that Giro, but coming back once was good. IMO in the Giro he showed enough.
But of course it's a question of expectations, mine for that Giro were top 50... for the obsessed who expected a top performance... (and of course not every fan was in on the hype for that Giro, but like every sceptic and critic is called a hater we haters now need to call all of you "obsessed" (some actually clearly are)
Anyway, don't even think it was a mistake to have him start the Giro. He was in good enough condition to do well early on, and it didn't seem to impact the rest of his season either, he was back winning in Belgium shortly after the Giro. Good experience that might already be useful to him now in Spain.
I'm hoping these things are cyclical and organisers realise that with the amount of young supertalents they need to create routes to test all facets of Grand Tour racing. So proper mountain stages balanced by 2/3 proper TT. At present I'd still think RE would be 3rd favourite as its more likely he loses multiple minutes in hard mountain stage than JV and TP lose minutes in TTs.
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I'll admit I'm getting WAY ahead of myself, but assuming he hangs for the full 3 weeks, having Evenepoel, Pogačar, and Vingegaard (and Bernal as well?) tee off in a TdF in the next few years harkens back to '89 with Delgado, Fignon, and Lemond. Love the comments above from Big Coward about some reall TT distances. I don't think it would necessarily favor any of them, and would add to the difficulty, tension, and prestige of such an event. Could be amazing.
- Jun 7, 2011
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It appears i have put you on ignore in the past even though i can not recall, but judging by this post, i have a good idea.
The problem is not people having doubts or reservations. The regular "believers" in this thread have been critical of either him, his schedule, his trainers, managers or team tactics in a race, plenty of times.
His trainer said he was ready. Masnada, who had been training with him for weeks, said he was going to win the Giro. The team sent him to the Giro, knowing his character so people assumed he'd be ready. But people in this thread don't have all the info. The fact that his team sent him to the Giro, it should have been safe to assume he was indeed ready. Yes it is possible to get ready without racing, it's just much harder. Don't put the team's f-up on the people here. We're not the ones with the test results, we're not the ones making the training schedules.
Your Picon Blanco BS is also quite telling. The logic behind the rock solid believe that he could climb was that he was a world class TT'er and soloist who only weighed 61 at the time. If you can put out big watts for a long time, it doesn't matter much whether it is in a solo break, a TT or a climb. Pushing x watts for y time is pushing x watts for y time.
Basically every "believer" in this thread has already acknowledged the Giro was a bad idea, in retrospect. I also have no idea how that is even remotely relevant regarding the subject of his intrinsic talents. If anything if the "haters" knew or were convinced that the Giro was a bad idea due to him not being ready, then why have they been using it as evidence to support their claim that "he could never..."? Kind of contradictory.
You don't like to read informative high quality posts?
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I don't think some are considering how bad his Lombardia accident actually was. He broke his pelvis in three spots. He had to learn to walk again. It set him back a year and a half, practically. That's huge, even for a young cyclist's career. In the mean time Pogacar's star ascended with meteoric rise and now Vingegaard, which, till now at least, has scaled down Remco's precoscious stature and accomplishments.
Naturally it's impossible to know how he would have finished that Lombardia, or done in that Giro (not the one he actually entered) and where it would have put him in 2021 and 2022. It's reasonable to imagine, however, that he would have continued to ride the wave of success he was on to further good results, which doesn't necessarily mean wins (although that was not out of the question - and anyone who thinks otherwise is either deceived or in bad faith).
The point is that Remco's injuries were very serious and it's a testament to his immense talent and mental strength that he bounced back, to the point his career finally seems to be back on track, which can only be good for cycling. Imagine the titanic battles that might await us in the future at the Classics and the Grand Tours, between Evenepoel, Van Aert, MvdP, Alaphilippe (and Evenepoel and Alaphilippe helping eachother) Pogacar, Vingegaard, Roglic and others up and coming. The sport needs the greatness of such riders to create those epic moments that will go down in (cycling) history.
Naturally it's impossible to know how he would have finished that Lombardia, or done in that Giro (not the one he actually entered) and where it would have put him in 2021 and 2022. It's reasonable to imagine, however, that he would have continued to ride the wave of success he was on to further good results, which doesn't necessarily mean wins (although that was not out of the question - and anyone who thinks otherwise is either deceived or in bad faith).
The point is that Remco's injuries were very serious and it's a testament to his immense talent and mental strength that he bounced back, to the point his career finally seems to be back on track, which can only be good for cycling. Imagine the titanic battles that might await us in the future at the Classics and the Grand Tours, between Evenepoel, Van Aert, MvdP, Alaphilippe (and Evenepoel and Alaphilippe helping eachother) Pogacar, Vingegaard, Roglic and others up and coming. The sport needs the greatness of such riders to create those epic moments that will go down in (cycling) history.
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Florecita was easier on the eyes
but I agree with the rest.
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A river of salty tears will flow after the ITT. But Flanders will be rollicking.
- Feb 1, 2020
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That's the fun of sports...we can go crazy for someone we like... Go Remco Go!!! Put the 5 Euros on Remco.
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