Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[red_flanders]

Still don't understand the "Giro next" stuff.

The only reason I could understand is if Jakobsen has TdF guaranteed in his contract or some ***.

I wonder if it's just because he's paid Jakobsen and wants that return, and is happy to have Remco wait. Maybe he's planning to pay a climber with Jakobsen's contract to shore up the team for the mountains.

QS obviously has a long time as a classics/sprinting team, and it might just be hard to let go and make the transition for him. Might just be trying to temper expectations from the press and Belgium generally.

Seems silly to make any pronouncements until after the respective routes come out, but maybe they don't see it that way since Remco did really well at steep climbs, long climbs, pretty well at altitude. They may not think the course is really the problem, more the pressure and the competition. Not sure I'd disagree.

 

[Andre]

Remco hardly needs 7 riders who can ride 50k on the front day in, day out.

I definitely also think that if you are arguing that QS shouldn't pick Alaphilippe, then Jumbo should leave Wout home for the same reasons. Which of course would be absolute lunacy (I'm not calling you a lunatic btw).

That's crazy. Jumbo can afford to bring in Wout without a single problem. He helps out on the mountains and wins green jerseys. Plus they have Kuss and company (a sinful amount of domestiques to help out Vingo) even if Wout wasn't there. Alaf (like Logic said) only if they can fit him in. Wout is a much stronger climber and a better sprinter and a better TT'er...I mean, we're talking about Van Aert here. Alaf doesn't really like to be a domestique, never has. He's more of a self absorbed rider. I'm not putting him down, just making an observation.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Remco hardly needs 7 riders who can ride 50k on the front day in, day out.

I definitely also think that if you are arguing that QS shouldn't pick Alaphilippe, then Jumbo should leave Wout home for the same reasons. Which of course would be absolute lunacy (I'm not calling you a lunatic btw).

The discussion started with the assumption the team would not be strong enough to support him going for GC at next year's TDF full on. So i basically started proposing a hypothetical team that could support him for GC over 3 weeks. As we all know, QS doesn't have top level GC doms like Jumbo or Ineos, so it would make sense that you divide the load over the riders that you actually do have. QS doesn't have a Martinez, a Van Aert, Kuss, Benoot or Van Baarle. So in order for the plan to work, you need to have a team that is willing to pick up the slack of others when others have an offday, get injured, crash out or simply can't deliver each day for 21 days because they will need to go in breaks to compensate missing top-end climbing doms etc. In that case you might think twice about bringing a rider who is going to be doing his own thing most of the time. And if you force him to get in line, maybe this rider doesn't really want to be there himself to begin with. Especially if he can't bring his sidekick.

If you have a support team with guys like the ones i mentioned, then indeed you don't need 7 guys working for him. But when you have to make due with Masnadas and Vansevenants, then you need to get the most out of every spot available. That is the reason i proposed a solution that might not include Alaphilippe. But obviously, i didn't realise some people might feel personally offended by the mere notion and start namecalling.

I already said that maybe it's not a bad thing to not take a full GC team to the TDF, considering it will only add pressure and having someone like Alaphilippe doing his own thing could actually relieve the team of some pressure. But in case you do get into the lead early (be it due to a TT or whatever) your team might come up short.

PS: I also think there is a huge difference between Van Aert and Alaphilippe and i believe you very well know that. Not only has Van Aert won more stages in fewer years in the TDF than Alaphilippe, he has also worked very hard for the team/leader in every TDF he did, and was extremely valuable as a domestique.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

New UCI ranking

Van Aert managed to stay 2nd for now thanks to the points he picked up in Canada over the weekend.

#	Prev.	Diff.	Rider	Team	Points
1	1	-	Pogačar Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	4836
2	2	-	van Aert Wout	Jumbo-Visma	4535
3	5	▲2	Evenepoel Remco	Quick-Step Alpha Vinyl Team	4167.5
4	4	-	Vingegaard Jonas	Jumbo-Visma	3073
5	6	▲1	Vlasov Aleksandr	BORA - hansgrohe	2362

 

[Berniece]

I wonder if it's just because he's paid Jakobsen and wants that return, and is happy to have Remco wait. Maybe he's planning to pay a climber with Jakobsen's contract to shore up the team for the mountains.

I don't think they have to drop Jakobsen to build their TDF team properly. Lefevre has said that if Remco achieves some targets, sponsors would bring in more money to build such a team.

 

[Bolder]

The discussion started with the assumption the team would not be strong enough to support him going for GC at next year's TDF full on. So i basically started proposing a hypothetical team that could support him for GC over 3 weeks. As we all know, QS doesn't have top level GC doms like Jumbo or Ineos, so it would make sense that you divide the load over the riders that you actually do have. QS doesn't have a Martinez, a Van Aert, Kuss, Benoot or Van Baarle. So in order for the plan to work, you need to have a team that is willing to pick up the slack of others when others have an offday, get injured, crash out or simply can't deliver each day for 21 days because they will need to go in breaks to compensate missing top-end climbing doms etc. In that case you might think twice about bringing a rider who is going to be doing his own thing most of the time. And if you force him to get in line, maybe this rider doesn't really want to be there himself to begin with. Especially if he can't bring his sidekick.

If you have a support team with guys like the ones i mentioned, then indeed you don't need 7 guys working for him. But when you have to make due with Masnadas and Vansevenants, then you need to get the most out of every spot available. That is the reason i proposed a solution that might not include Alaphilippe. But obviously, i didn't realise some people might feel personally offended by the mere notion and start namecalling.

I already said that maybe it's not a bad thing to not take a full GC team to the TDF, considering it will only add pressure and having someone like Alaphilippe doing his own thing could actually relieve the team of some pressure. But in case you do get into the lead early (be it due to a TT or whatever) your team might come up short.

PS: I also think there is a huge difference between Van Aert and Alaphilippe and i believe you very well know that. Not only has Van Aert won more stages in fewer years in the TDF than Alaphilippe, he has also worked very hard for the team/leader in every TDF he did, and was extremely valuable as a domestique.

As much as I love Alaf, he is not really suited to be a domestique. But he is going to be in the TdF for whatever team he rides for until he retires...maybe a healthy Asgreen could fill the Wout role next year at the Tour.

 

[Akuryo]

That's crazy. Jumbo can afford to bring in Wout without a single problem. He helps out on the mountains and wins green jerseys. Plus they have Kuss and company (a sinful amount of domestiques to help out Vingo) even if Wout wasn't there. Alaf (like Logic said) only if they can fit him in. Wout is a much stronger climber and a better sprinter and a better TT'er...I mean, we're talking about Van Aert here. Alaf doesn't really like to be a domestique, never has. He's more of a self absorbed rider. I'm not putting him down, just making an observation.

This much weaker climber managed to get 5th in GC in the Tour though...
Alaphilippe is so much more than just a domestique though and that is the problem, not his climbing ability. On his day he can absolutely hang with the very best. But do you want to use your (probably) overall best rider purely as a pacesetter on mountain stages?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Patrick Lefevere: I’d prefer Evenepoel to target Giro d’Italia before fighting Pogačar at Tour de France

'Everyone knows he’s a super talent but when the time is right we’ll try and fight against them,' says Quick-Step AlphaVinyl boss.

www.velonews.com

The old man prefers Giro for Remco before facing Teddy and co at the Tour.
This is great news for the fans - Giro-Tour double next year confirmed!

 

[steffr222]

Patrick Lefevere: I’d prefer Evenepoel to target Giro d’Italia before fighting Pogačar at Tour de France

'Everyone knows he’s a super talent but when the time is right we’ll try and fight against them,' says Quick-Step AlphaVinyl boss.

www.velonews.com

The old man prefers Giro for Remco before facing Teddy and co at the Tour.
This is great news for the fans - Giro-Tour double next year confirmed!

Apparently three ITT ( 70 km) in Giro 2023.

 

[search]

there's an interview with his coach Koen Pelgrim in Belgian press today. Evenepoel is currently on his way to Australia, but they don't seem to be really sure what to expect just after the Vuelta. The road race will also be his final race of the season

https://pressreader.com/article/281848647446256

 

[Riek s]

New UCI ranking

Van Aert managed to stay 2nd for now thanks to the points he picked up in Canada over the weekend.

#	Prev.	Diff.	Rider	Team	Points
1	1	-	Pogačar Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	4836
2	2	-	van Aert Wout	Jumbo-Visma	4535
3	5	▲2	Evenepoel Remco	Quick-Step Alpha Vinyl Team	4167.5
4	4	-	Vingegaard Jonas	Jumbo-Visma	3073
5	6	▲1	Vlasov Aleksandr	BORA - hansgrohe	2362

Yeah by participating in those canada races with good results, you can offset a GT win.

 

[red_flanders]

I don't think they have to drop Jakobsen to build their TDF team properly. Lefevre has said that if Remco achieves some targets, sponsors would bring in more money to build such a team.

I guess it’s just a question of why pay a rider like Jakobsen if you don’t bring him to the Tour. Maybe he would try and support both, but to me that seems like a bad strategy, But why would Jakobsen stay on a team where he wouldn’t be part of the team’s Tour plans?

 

[tobydawq]

Yeah by participating in those canada races with good results, you can offset a GT win.

Hmm, winning the Canadian double is better than winning a Grand Tour.

There's obviously something wrong there.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Hmm, winning the Canadian double is better than winning a Grand Tour.

There's obviously something wrong there.

Yeah, don't win any GT's

 

[Andre]

Apparently three ITT ( 70 km) in Giro 2023.

...maybe it's just me but El Giro just doesn't have the appeal of the past. For me La Vuelta has for some time now replaced El Giro. Le Tour is still the big dog.

 

[Valv.Piti]

...maybe it's just me but El Giro just doesn't have the appeal of the past. For me La Vuelta has for some time now replaced El Giro. Le Tour is still the big dog.

Yes, Mauro Vegni has made sure that the Giro has been hot trash lately. The routes have been bad (considering what opportunities they have), the camera work has been atrocious, the cancelling and shortenings of stages etc. has made it so I don't really rate the Giro highly anymore. Used to be my favorite race for quite some times, but it sure as hell isn't that anymore.

Now, put Zomegnan back in charge, and Im sure it would be better...

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Yeah by participating in those canada races with good results, you can offset a GT win.

There are many other points up for grabs in a GT, though. Evenepoel got 300 points for his 15 days in the leader's jersey and 200 points for his 2 stage wins, for example.

Van Aert was just that far ahead.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In a podcast on Sporza he now says he weighs 3kg less than Liège. In Liège he claimed he was 64kg. At the start of the Vuelta they claimed he was 63kg (which was the target supposedly throughout the season towards the Vuelta). So either he is very bad at basic maths, or he/they are purposely blowing smoke. I have noticed it before, that claims about his weight post factum often greatly differ from what was stated originally, but now it's getting a bit silly. It's possible he actually was lighter at the Vuelta because to he did look noticeably sharper than in Liège, so who knows.

There are many other points up for grabs in a GT, though. Evenepoel got 300 points for his 15 days in the leader's jersey and 200 points for his 2 stage wins, for example.

Van Aert was just that far ahead.

I think the effort of defending your GT jersey for 2 weeks easily outdoes becoming 3rd in Quebec though. Yet you get less points for it. I also think if a rider could chose between wearing a leaders jersey for 2 weeks or finishing 3rd in Canada, they would pick the former.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I think the effort of defending your GT jersey for 2 weeks easily outdoes becoming 3rd in Quebec though. Yet you get less points for it. I also think if a rider could chose between wearing a leaders jersey for 2 weeks of finishing 3rd in Canada, they would pick the former.

For sure. But if it helps non-European races get higher quality fields then I'm all for it.

 

[red_flanders]

In a podcast on Sporza he now says he weighs 3kg less than Liège. In Liège he claimed he was 64kg. At the start of the Vuelta they claimed he was 63kg (which was the target supposedly throughout the season towards the Vuelta). So either he is very bad at basic maths, or he/they are purposely blowing smoke. I have noticed it before, that claims about his weight post factum often greatly differ from what was stated originally, but now it's getting a bit silly. It's possible he actually was lighter at the Vuelta because to he did look noticeably sharper than in Liège, so who knows.

Riders and teams have been obfuscating rider weights ever since I started following the sport and likely much longer. They can’t be taken seriously, and any calculations done on claimed weight have to be taken with a massive grain of salt.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Would it be considered not normal to lose 2 kilos during a Grand Tour?

If he started the Vuelta at 63ish then lost 2 kilos during the Vuelta he would now be 3 kilos lighter than 64 at Liege.

 

[saunaking]

In a podcast on Sporza he now says he weighs 3kg less than Liège. In Liège he claimed he was 64kg. At the start of the Vuelta they claimed he was 63kg (which was the target supposedly throughout the season towards the Vuelta). So either he is very bad at basic maths, or he/they are purposely blowing smoke. I have noticed it before, that claims about his weight post factum often greatly differ from what was stated originally, but now it's getting a bit silly. It's possible he actually was lighter at the Vuelta because to he did look noticeably sharper than in Liège, so who knows.



I think the effort of defending your GT jersey for 2 weeks easily outdoes becoming 3rd in Quebec though. Yet you get less points for it. I also think if a rider could chose between wearing a leaders jersey for 2 weeks or finishing 3rd in Canada, they would pick the former.

Yes but why would a pro cyclist divulge their weight? I think this would be totally top secret classified information and in reality they would only spread misinformation when they have an opportunity.

 

[search]

his weight talk never really made much sense. After San Sebastian he was quoted “I am at the lightest I’ve been. I was even lighter at Liège but I am 2kg lighter than I was when I turned pro,”

 

[Riek s]

Would it be considered not normal to lose 2 kilos during a Grand Tour?

If he started the Vuelta at 63ish then lost 2 kilos during the Vuelta he would now be 3 kilos lighter than 64 at Liege.

Typically you want to loose as little as possible.
Think you want to keep it less than 1kg, or your performance will suffer dramatically (or you were really overweight ).
I think after 2 weeks some interviews with people around remco were telling what they were doing so he wouldn't drop (a lot) of weight by the end.

But its behind paywall & dutch

Waarom Evenepoel deze Vuelta perfect op gewicht blijft? “De koers, de rust, het weer… Dat bepaalt hoeveel Remco eet”

De <a href="https://www.hln.be/vuelta/" target="_blank">Vuelta </a>zit in de slotweek en Remco Evenepoel heeft nog geen moment van zwakte gekend. Anders dan in de Giro van 2021 blijft zijn gewicht op peil. De Nederlandse nutrioniste Lisa Nijbroek werkt sinds dit jaar bij Quick.Step Alpha Vinyl...

www.hln.be

But header is stating:

Why Remco stays perfectly at his weight during the Vuelta, the race, rcovery determines how much remco eats.

So i don't expect such a large drop in weight.


I'm with red_flanders and saunaking on this one. They will always speak in riddles. Up to this day we still don't know the weight of Armstrong and we are 17 years later.
Same will be for Remco. The only sure thing is that he was heavier the beginning of the season compared to now

 

[Andre]

In a podcast on Sporza he now says he weighs 3kg less than Liège. In Liège he claimed he was 64kg. At the start of the Vuelta they claimed he was 63kg (which was the target supposedly throughout the season towards the Vuelta). So either he is very bad at basic maths, or he/they are purposely blowing smoke. I have noticed it before, that claims about his weight post factum often greatly differ from what was stated originally, but now it's getting a bit silly. It's possible he actually was lighter at the Vuelta because to he did look noticeably sharper than in Liège, so who knows.



I think the effort of defending your GT jersey for 2 weeks easily outdoes becoming 3rd in Quebec though. Yet you get less points for it. I also think if a rider could chose between wearing a leaders jersey for 2 weeks or finishing 3rd in Canada, they would pick the former.

They should weigh them in like they do with boxers.