• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

Page 692 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar

Should we change the thread title?

  • Total voters
    112
Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
48,506
33,907
28,180
Visit site
Ulle97 said:
What is the plan for Remco now?
I know he'll probably do the WC and San Sebastian, but I really want to see him in a grand tour again this year.....

I think the Tour has possibilities for him and the Vuelta also.

I really enjoy watching Remco and hope he has a great career. However, I get the feeling that he is like the protected up and coming boxer who won't take on certain challenges for fear of losing. Maybe it's more his team management who is calling the shots.

Let's get Remco to the Tour, or at least defend his title at the Vuelta! Come on Remco!!
Click to expand...
He's just started training again, so I guess we'll hear the schedule soon.

My guess the Tour just comes too early.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riek s
R

Riek s

Jun 24, 2010
1,679
1,996
13,680
Visit site
VayaVayaVaya said:
I’ve seen this a few times. What are people basing this on? They hadn’t done a single mountain stage when he dropped out.
Click to expand...
Based on him being the better climber compared to Thomas, especially on the steeper stuff. (He was also doing his worst ability the flat TT on equal ground as Thomas). If we combine that with the difference between Thomas/Roglic being a coin toss...

(and being in the Remco thread, if Remco didn't got sick, Roglic/Thomas/Ameida should have ridden completely different if they wanted to be within a minute on the final podium. Hence why him dropping out, followed by Hart dropping out made this is a snore fest of riders waiting/(or just being absolute equal to each other) untill the last coin flip. Instead of needing to attack/do something to win.
We will never know if Hart/Remco would have won the race since it would have affected the riding style dramatically. The only thing i'm 100% sure of is that the Giro would have been more watchable having them in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KenFiamingo, Sandisfan, Carrick-On-Seine and 2 others
T

theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
14,757
3,334
28,180
Visit site
Riek s said:
Based on him being the better climber compared to Thomas, especially on the steeper stuff. (He was also doing his worst ability the flat TT on equal ground as Thomas). If we combine that with the difference between Thomas/Roglic being a coin toss...

(and being in the Remco thread, if Remco didn't got sick, Roglic/Thomas/Ameida should have ridden completely different if they wanted to be within a minute on the final podium. Hence why him dropping out, followed by Hart dropping out made this is a snore fest of riders waiting/(or just being absolute equal to each other) untill the last coin flip. Instead of needing to attack/do something to win.
We will never know if Hart/Remco would have won the race since it would have affected the riding style dramatically. The only thing i'm 100% sure of is that the Giro would have been more watchable having them in.
Click to expand...
Another comment in the 'if my grandma had wheels she'd have been a bike' category. Unsurprisingly, a lot of them come from Belgians. It's so pointless. Let me respond with another cliche: to finish first, first you have to finish. Roglic knows that all too well. And one more cliche: you have to strike when it matters. Another thing Roglic has found out the hard way. He's not here to entertain, he's here to win.

If we're talking in possible scenarios if this or that rider hadn't crashed or gotten sick, why not also consider the scenario that Roglic had stayed on his bike? He would have been a lot better as well. It seems the Michel Wuytses and Dirk De Wolfs of this world choose to ignore this option. So basically Roglic gets 'punished' for at least finishing the race. That's on par with the guy from Slovenian cycling calling Evenepoel a spoilsport for going home with covid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ALC, Elos Anjos, Gratemans and 4 others
Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
48,506
33,907
28,180
Visit site
Let's say we get the scenario where Evenepoel doesn't get COVID and the stage 10 crash doesn't happen.

I don't think we can confidently say which rider would have won, apart from it being unlikely to be Thomas.

What I do think is that Catalunya may have given a somewhat false impression of how much better than the rest Roglic and Evenepoel were because they have a bigger tendency to fly high even before their big targets happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Oldermanish, KOM and Tem
R

Riek s

Jun 24, 2010
1,679
1,996
13,680
Visit site
theyoungest said:
Another comment in the 'if my grandma had wheels she'd have been a bike' category. Unsurprisingly, a lot of them come from Belgians. It's so pointless. Let me respond with another cliche: to finish first, first you have to finish. Roglic knows that all too well. And one more cliche: you have to strike when it matters. Another thing Roglic has found out the hard way. He's not here to entertain, he's here to win.

If we're talking in possible scenarios if this or that rider hadn't crashed or gotten sick, why not also consider the scenario that Roglic had stayed on his bike? He would have been a lot better as well. It seems the Michel Wuytses and Dirk De Wolfs of this world choose to ignore this option. So basically Roglic gets 'punished' for at least finishing the race. That's on par with the guy from Slovenian cycling calling Evenepoel a spoilsport for going home with covid.
Click to expand...

Riek s said:
Based on him being the better climber compared to Thomas, especially on the steeper stuff. (He was also doing his worst ability the flat TT on equal ground as Thomas). If we combine that with the difference between Thomas/Roglic being a coin toss...

(and being in the Remco thread, if Remco didn't got sick, Roglic/Thomas/Ameida should have ridden completely different if they wanted to be within a minute on the final podium. Hence why him dropping out, followed by Hart dropping out made this is a snore fest of riders waiting/(or just being absolute equal to each other) untill the last coin flip. Instead of needing to attack/do something to win.
We will never know if Hart/Remco would have won the race since it would have affected the riding style dramatically. The only thing i'm 100% sure of is that the Giro would have been more watchable having them in.
Click to expand...
as per usual people don't read, but ofcourse belgians right. (or do you mean its the belgian who say Hart could have won?)

We indeed don't know how the crash affected Roglic AND Thomas. Maybe Roglic had it worse, we don't know. Would Roglic have raced differently if he hadn't crashed? according to your own statement no. (since some on the roglic forum believe he rode to follow and put everything on the MTT).

I'm perfectly fine with people thinking this was a fantastic Giro. I think it sucked monkeyballs. Only the 3 ITTs were decent and brought something. (and those 3 ITT were the most contested part of this Giro).
If they just had ridden the MTT with the current giro peleton and removed all the time differences before, the whole top5 would have been in the same place. (that is how long they waited, the previous 19stages were for naught)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ilmaestro99, Sandisfan, Carrick-On-Seine and 1 other person
EddyMazzoleni

EddyMazzoleni

Apr 26, 2023
289
457
1,630
Visit site
Riek s said:
We indeed don't know how the crash affected Roglic AND Thomas. Maybe Roglic had it worse, we don't know. Would Roglic have raced differently if he hadn't crashed? according to your own statement no. (since some on the roglic forum believe he rode to follow and put everything on the MTT).
Click to expand...

Well, Roglic had to get stitches, Thomas by his own word was pretty lucky because he landed on Covi. So i would say that the former had it worst.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
T

theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
14,757
3,334
28,180
Visit site
Riek s said:
as per usual people don't read, but ofcourse belgians right. (or do you mean its the belgian who say Hart could have won?)

We indeed don't know how the crash affected Roglic AND Thomas. Maybe Roglic had it worse, we don't know. Would Roglic have raced differently if he hadn't crashed? according to your own statement no. (since some on the roglic forum believe he rode to follow and put everything on the MTT).

I'm perfectly fine with people thinking this was a fantastic Giro. I think it sucked monkeyballs. Only the 3 ITTs were decent and brought something. (and those 3 ITT were the most contested part of this Giro).
If they just had ridden the MTT with the current giro peleton and removed all the time differences before, the whole top5 would have been in the same place. (that is how long they waited, the previous 19stages were for naught)
Click to expand...
I noticed you mentioned Hart as the likely winner, but the idea that with Evenepoel and Hart there it would have been a totally different race, without taking into account that Roglic was far from fit as well, is a bit ludicrous. If you speak in hypotheticals, at least include every factor and not just the ones that suit your favourite. And I noticed this a lot in the Belgian press, of course mostly focused on Evenepoel.

I think multiple things can be true at the same time. Yes, Roglic rode conservatively to focus on the TT, but it's pretty clear that this was born from necessity. Or do you think he lost time on purpose on Monte Bondone, or got dropped by Thomas on Tre Cime only to pass him in a last ditch effort to make it a bit more exciting? Just like it's possible to think that no, this wasn't the most thrilling Giro ever but also that yes, it probably had something to do with the circumstances and not necessarily with the riders not wanting to race.
 
R

Riek s

Jun 24, 2010
1,679
1,996
13,680
Visit site
theyoungest said:
I noticed you mentioned Hart as the likely winner, but the idea that with Evenepoel and Hart there it would have been a totally different race, without taking into account that Roglic was far from fit as well, is a bit ludicrous. If you speak in hypotheticals, at least include every factor and not just the ones that suit your favourite. And I noticed this a lot in the Belgian press, of course mostly focused on Evenepoel.

I think multiple things can be true at the same time. Yes, Roglic rode conservatively to focus on the TT, but it's pretty clear that this was born from necessity. Or do you think he lost time on purpose on Monte Bondone, or got dropped by Thomas on Tre Cime only to pass him in a last ditch effort to make it a bit more exciting? Just like it's possible to think that no, this wasn't the most thrilling Giro ever but also that yes, it probably had something to do with the circumstances and not necessarily with the riders not wanting to race.
Click to expand...
I reject the assumption that Roglic was far from fit. Roglic came in to the giro in top form. I assume you mean he could have been hindered by the crash? of course that is possible, we don't know since he hasn't said anything of value on it. Also hard to say since the day he wasn't able to follow was a very hard long day, which he isn't his biggest strength..)

We basically say the same thing about the thrilling of the Giro, it had something to do with the circumstances and not necesarriy with the riders not wanting to race: (e.. riders dropping out, and riders very matched to each other )
Riek s said:
Based on him being the better climber compared to Thomas, especially on the steeper stuff. (He was also doing his worst ability the flat TT on equal ground as Thomas). If we combine that with the difference between Thomas/Roglic being a coin toss...

(and being in the Remco thread, if Remco didn't got sick, Roglic/Thomas/Ameida should have ridden completely different if they wanted to be within a minute on the final podium. Hence why him dropping out, followed by Hart dropping out made this is a snore fest of riders waiting/(or just being absolute equal to each other) untill the last coin flip. Instead of needing to attack/do something to win.
We will never know if Hart/Remco would have won the race since it would have affected the riding style dramatically. The only thing i'm 100% sure of is that the Giro would have been more watchable having them in.
Click to expand...
 
T

theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
14,757
3,334
28,180
Visit site
Riek s said:
I reject the assumption that Roglic was far from fit. Roglic came in to the giro in top form. I assume you mean he could have been hindered by the crash? of course that is possible, we don't know since he hasn't said anything of value on it. Also hard to say since the day he wasn't able to follow was a very hard long day, which he isn't his biggest strength..)

We basically say the same thing about the thrilling of the Giro, it had something to do with the circumstances and not necesarriy with the riders not wanting to race: (e.. riders dropping out, and riders very matched to each other )
Click to expand...
He did actually say something about it, "I'm still recovering", which is just about as much as he as ever said about anything that hampers him because he's famously not very forthcoming in interviews, which he views as a necessary evil. Thomas from his own words wasn't affected by the crash at all, he didn't even hit the ground as he fell on Covi.
 
staubsauger

staubsauger

Jul 27, 2009
6,195
2,000
20,680
Visit site
EddyMazzoleni said:
Well, Roglic had to get stitches, Thomas by his own word was pretty lucky because he landed on Covi. So i would say that the former had it worst.
Click to expand...
Roglic crashed with Hart & Sivakov. Both had to abandon immediately or afterwards because of the crash. That suggests something. And maybe or probably my suggestion that Roglic apart from Lussari wasn't on his Vuelta a Espana level is a misinterpretation due to misprize the effect of the crash. His first 2 TT's suggest I'm not completely wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
Panda Claws

Panda Claws

Aug 29, 2011
3,538
1,804
16,680
Visit site
VayaVayaVaya said:
Let me see if I can translate your series of posts into a position:
  • Despite how Remco described his experience, the fact that he won the ITT the day he dropped out, and the fact that he quickly returned to training, Remco felt so horrible he couldn’t continue
    • So that people don’t get the wrong idea, I generally think it is best to take Covid seriously and am fine with his decision
  • Despite Roglic having to get stitches after a fall and saying to the press he is not 100%, he is actually not hurt, just lying, and he just had a bad(ish) day, “ish” in referencing to dropping from guys he normally drops 5km out
  • If Remco had not retired from the Giro, he would have “clowned the field,” including a Roglic who is not hurt
So we are back to the classic a Remco partisan argument - Remco is the best, everyone else is a clown, Remco’s excuses are legit, others’ excuses are not.

Edit: I frequently cheer for Remco, so I am far from a hater.
Click to expand...
Never fun to argue with a strawman, calimero, 'victim'
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
37,966
16,993
28,180
Visit site
Red Rick said:
Let's say we get the scenario where Evenepoel doesn't get COVID and the stage 10 crash doesn't happen.

I don't think we can confidently say which rider would have won, apart from it being unlikely to be Thomas.

What I do think is that Catalunya may have given a somewhat false impression of how much better than the rest Roglic and Evenepoel were because they have a bigger tendency to fly high even before their big targets happen.
Click to expand...
If Thomas is an unlikely winner in that scenario, isn't the gap down to Almeida in Catalunya close to what you'd expect it to be in the Giro as well?
 
P

peterfin

Feb 24, 2020
562
874
5,780
Visit site
Remco started training on his TT bike today. It could be in preparation for the NC TT but that's still weeks away (22/6). He also didn't test himself on the local NC parcours in Herzele for which he did a recon weeks ago. Maybe he is preparing for the TdS? The only problem here is his big fan event on 10/6 that requires his presence.
 
H

houtdffan

Jul 20, 2019
2,020
1,796
8,680
Visit site
peterfin said:
Remco started training on his TT bike today. It could be in preparation for the NC TT but that's still weeks away (22/6). He also didn't test himself on the local NC parcours in Herzele for which he did a recon weeks ago. Maybe he is preparing for the TdS? The only problem here is his big fan event on 10/6 that requires his presence.
Click to expand...

TDS starts the next day. He can go to Switzerland after the fan event.

First day is a short TT anyways
 
  • Like
Reactions: SHAD0W93 and Sandisfan
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom