Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[VayaVayaVaya]

This thread is quite the journey. From guaranteed Giro victory to classics specialist after one little bout of Covid.

 

[red_flanders]

This thread is quite the journey. From guaranteed Giro victory to classics specialist after one little bout of Covid.

Definitely no one overreacts to one stage of a race that was never a target...

 

[peterfin]

and that's kinda why i'm a fan.

stay away from GTs that require conservative racing and sacrificing half a season...

go to altitude periodically and target many, many thrilling wins at LBL, San Sebastian, Worlds, Lombardia, Amstel...etc...

That's why I am a fan as well and why I would like to see him race in the TdF this year. He doesn't need to be conservative this year. He should know that he hasn't sacrificed his season to be in top shape and he doesn't owe it to the team to win the GC (his thinking). It can make him free as a bird.

Actually, we are all making a lot of noise about his tactics and how stupid it is but the guy goes all out in the middle of a long clib. Think about that for a second. He has the guts to do it knowing that he might fail because he lacks data about his own shape. He can either be the hero or be ridiculed but still he makes the bet and does it. We have been waiting the whole giro for that to happen without any luck. People in general hate losing more than winning. According to experts losing something feels twice as bad as winning that same thing feels good. We should support riders that think differently and make the race much more enjoyable.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Anyone remember when imperious Vingegaard launched on a climb against Pogacar earlier this year and got dropped like a stone? Gotta test the legs. He probably wanted to see if he should pivot to the Tour

 

[ManicJack]

That's why I am a fan as well and why I would like to see him race in the TdF this year. He doesn't need to be conservative this year. He should know that he hasn't sacrificed his season to be in top shape and he doesn't owe it to the team to win the GC (his thinking). It can make him free as a bird.

He would also come out of it with some understanding of the numbers necessary to compete with top shape Pog and Vingo in the TdF, for when his entourage decides he's ready to try to win it in '25 or '26.

 

[Big Doopie]

This thread is quite the journey. From guaranteed Giro victory to classics specialist after one little bout of Covid.

i appreciate it.

tough for any grey areas to appear in an online forum.

these things are not mutually exclusive, btw.

as stated, with the correct prep, etc., Remco can win GTs (as he did last year and as he was well on his way to doing at the giro this year).

i would simply prefer that he focus on the other big races (rather than GTs) because he is waaaaaaaay more exciting to watch in those. so -- as a fan -- I do not like when I rider I like to see race has to hibernate away for so much of the season, to then ride conservatively for three weeks at a GT. unfortunately, Remco disagrees with me and wants to win GTs...

 

[Riek s]

He would also come out of it with some understanding of the numbers necessary to compete with top shape Pog and Vingo in the TdF, for when his entourage decides he's ready to try to win it in '25 or '26.

That doesn't matter, they know the numbers he needs to compete. Whether his body can handle the numbers needed will only be known when he tries to do it.

Going to the tour while pushing 20W below what you need/can handle doesn't help you one bit in understanding where you need to be. With his current form he will only see those two after they are showered. (and not only those 2..)

 

[Big Doopie]

He would also come out of it with some understanding of the numbers necessary to compete with top shape Pog and Vingo in the TdF, for when his entourage decides he's ready to try to win it in '25 or '26.

do you really think they do not know the exact numbers already...?

 

[theyoungest]

At least he is not a wheelsucker, and i'm far from being fan of him.

Meh. I prefer to watch a smart rider rather than someone who rides on the front expecting to drop everyone, and when that doesn't happen they just push on without a clear plan. What is he trying to do? Get in shape for the Belgian championships?

 

[Big Doopie]

Definitely no one overreacts to one stage of a race that was never a target...

agreed.

it's so hard to have these discussions with all these unreasonable people.

 

[Big Doopie]

That doesn't matter, they know the numbers he needs to compete. Whether his body can handle the numbers needed will only be known when he tries to do it.

Going to the tour while pushing 20W below what you need/can handle doesn't help you one bit in understanding where you need to be. With his current form he will only see those two after they are showered. (and not only those 2..)

bingo. we have a winner.

 

[Big Doopie]

Meh. I prefer to watch a smart rider rather than someone who rides on the front expecting to drop everyone, and when that doesn't happen they just push on without a clear plan. What is he trying to do? Get in shape for the Belgian championships?

oh, i hope so!

anyone know the type of route the RR is on?

 

[ManicJack]

do you really think they do not know the exact numbers already...?

No, I don't. I wasn't aware that Remco had access to Pog's & Vingo's Training Peaks files.

 

[Big Doopie]

No, I don't. I wasn't aware that Remco had access to Pog's & Vingo's Training Peaks files.

within 20 watts they definitely do. or more importantly the watts/kg needed to even compete. and if remco is 20 watts off his own top, as @Riek s points out, he will learn nothing new while getting summarily dropped.

it is why JV is so confident to send Vingo alone against Pog. they say they know how to bet him. i would bet that they figured out what Pog's limits are on long climbs to high altitude and that Vingo (in TDF shape) has a slight advantage there. whether that will happen, who knows, thankfully racing isn't just w/kg or we could do the whole race on Zwift.

 

[theyoungest]

within 20 watts they definitely do. or more importantly the watts/kg needed to even compete. and if remco is 20 watts off his own top, as @Riek s points out, he will learn nothing new while getting summarily dropped.

it is why JV is so confident to send Vingo alone against Pog. they say they know how to bet him. i would bet that they figured out what Pog's limits are on long climbs to high altitude and that Vingo (in TDF shape) has a slight advantage there. whether that will happen, who knows, thankfully racing isn't just w/kg or we could do the whole race on Zwift.

Yeah. Do you know how they found out? By actually racing the Tour.

 

[Extinction]

If he had ridden away from that far out, then he would be at Vingeggard's level in the Dauphine. But that's not possible! You gotta use your head.

 

[ManicJack]

within 20 watts they definitely do. or more importantly the watts/kg needed to even compete.

20 watts of what? AP, NP, 4min, 15 min, 30 min power? How long someone can hold an above ATP effort at any given point of fatigue and still recover? Let alone hundreds of other variables. Your correct it isn't Zwift.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

If he had ridden away from that far out, then he would be at Vingeggard's level in the Dauphine. But that's not possible! You gotta use your head.

Of course it is possible. He has done it before. He's just not at his top level. Nothing against Skelmose, but do you really think he's shipping 21 seconds Skelmose if Remco is at peak fitness?

 

[Riek s]

20 watts of what? AP, NP, 4min, 15 min, 30 min power? How long someone can hold an above ATP effort at any given point of fatigue and still recover? Let alone hundreds of other variables. Your correct it isn't Zwift.

At this point, in the last stage, it seems he misses that on a ~30m effort. (20W is about 0.3W/kg for him).

 

[Oldermanish]

He should be in top shape then, but I agree he didn’t ride smart. I think he always wants to go for an amazing win instead of just a win

Yeah....not how GTs get won because eventually the watts run out. He needs to know that limit for more than one week against serious competition; not just one other contender. Wout doesn't count.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

oh, i hope so!

anyone know the type of route the RR is on?

Flatish 226.5km with climbs up Monteberg and Kemmelberg 3x each (3 loops)

 

[ManicJack]

Flatish 226.5km with climbs up Monteberg and Kemmelberg 3x each (3 loops)

Certainly can't count him out. Hasn't there been past talk of all pros having to race it? True or not?

 

[Extinction]

Of course it is possible. He has done it before. He's just not at his top level. Nothing against Skelmose, but do you really think he's shipping 21 seconds Skelmose if Remco is at peak fitness?

No, and he should have known better. Why did Soudal set tempo from the beginning? This should have been about caution, thinking about the bigger picture, not putting on a show. He doesn't have to be Vingeggard now. He needs to settle into a rythm and gain fitness, play the tactical game, follow the moves and finish the job in the end. Had he done that, he may have even been sprinting for the win. These are the lessons to learn, humility and guile net better results. Don't expose weakness, but capitalize upon it.

 

[Big Doopie]

No, and he should have known better. Why did Soudal set tempo from the beginning? This should have been about caution, thinking about the bigger picture, not putting on a show. He doesn't have to be Vingeggard now. He needs to settle into a rythm and gain fitness, play the tactical game, follow the moves and finish the job in the end. Had he done that, he may have even been sprinting for the win. These are the lessons to learn, humility and guile net better results. Don't expose weakness, but capitalize upon it.

agreed.

particularly since he now appears to have a bit of a kick at the end. had he followed wheels more, he may have outkicked everyone for the win, or at least not lost much time.

 

[houtdffan]

He doesn't seem worried at all after the stage

He's acting as if he's here to put on a show, not win a bike race