Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

agreed.

particularly since he now appears to have a bit of a kick at the end. had he followed wheels more, he may have outkicked everyone for the win, or at least not lost much time.

Whether he would have been fighting for the win or not is less relevant, but learning to play the hand you have. Sometimes you have a winner, other times you have to bluff. It's poker.

 

[Extinction]

One thing to take from this, is that he descended well on rain soaked curves before the final ascent. They clearly tried to put him under pressure, but he was never gapped. This was not to be taken for granted. Good job.

 

[Riek s]

Whether he would have been fighting for the win or not is less relevant, but learning to play the hand you have. Sometimes you have a winner, other times you have to bluff. It's poker.

Same is true for what he now did. (he bluffed he was better than he was) If the others started looking at each other (gave up), or were more eager to take over it might also have turned out differently.
You gamble, and if you win it was the good gamble and otherwise it was the bad gamble.

One thing to take from this, is that he descended well on rain soaked curves before the final ascent. They clearly tried to put him under pressure, but he was never gapped. This was not to be taken for granted. Good job.

I didn't see it, but that would be good news. I think thursday it is downhill before the finish.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Meh. I prefer to watch a smart rider rather than someone who rides on the front expecting to drop everyone, and when that doesn't happen they just push on without a clear plan. What is he trying to do?

I think it’s worth to take into account that it’s been several times where people have been able to follow Remco initial attack and then just been sitting on the wheel before they’ve dropped some minutes later by the maintained speed.

It’s so easy to sit here afterwards and say what he should’ve done instead. On another day maybe Gall and Skjelmose wouldn’t be able to maintain the effort after 5 minutes. I don’t think it’s easy for riders to know what the other riders can maintain for a longer period. For us it’s easy afterwards.

Would he have dropped Pidcock in Liege if he would sit up when Pidcock got back? Would he win San Sebastián last year if he’d sit up when Yates followed his first attack?

Many of his victories has happened because he’s been pushing on when not being able to drop everyone at first attack.

 

[Extinction]

Same is true for what he now did. If the others started looking at each other, or were more eager to take over it might also have turned out differently.
You gamble, and if you win it was the good gamble and otherwise it was the bad gamble.

Right, but prudence after a downward turn, because of crashes and Covid at the Giro, should have been the order of the day, not gambling on an exploit. He should have marked Ayuso and gambled on the sprint to the line. And then test the afterburners thereafter or else follow and cash in on the TT. He comes out fresher and with reserves in the tank.

 

[Extinction]

I think it’s worth to take into account that it’s been several times where people have been able to follow Remco initial attack and then just been sitting on the wheel before they’ve dropped some minutes later by the maintained speed.

It’s so easy to sit here afterwards and say what he should’ve done instead. On another day maybe Gall and Skjelmose wouldn’t be able to maintain the effort after 5 minutes. I don’t think it’s easy for riders to know what the other riders can maintain for a longer period. For us it’s easy afterwards.

Would he have dropped Pidcock in Liege if he would sit up when Pidcock got back? Would he win San Sebastián last year if he’d sit up when Yates followed his first attack?

Many of his victories has happened because he’s been pushing on when not being able to drop everyone at first attack.

In those races, however, he clearly had another gear, which after how the Giro ended he simply can't have now. He thus needs to work towards regaining that extra gear, not race as if he already has it.

 

[Blanco]

He doesn't seem worried at all after the stage

He's acting as if he's here to put on a show, not win a bike race

You're right, he's acting...

 

[JimPanzen]

He doesn't seem worried at all after the stage

He's acting as if he's here to put on a show, not win a bike race

He was shaking his head when he crossed the line and clearly disappointed.

I think maybe he also got bad advice from the team car like "You're clearly the strongest, keep pulling." Who knows.

 

[houtdffan]

'Nothing is lost yet, no drama' – Remco Evenepoel absorbs Tour de Suisse setback

Belgian attacks but loses ground to Skjelmose on stage 3 summit finish

www.cyclingnews.com

“We have to be content, we tried,” Evenepoel said afterwards, according to Het Nieuwsblad. “Nothing is lost yet, so no drama. I haven’t lost the general classification here. Now it’s onto tomorrow, it’s another chance.”

 

[Riek s]

He was shaking his head when he crossed the line and clearly disappointed.

I think maybe he also got bad advice from the team car like "You're clearly the strongest, keep pulling." Who knows.

In the interview he basically said::

"
I needed to go, my teammates were empty so i had to do something.
I put in a strong attack and a few other strong people could follow. I had a bad moment on the hardest part of the climb, where i shoud have been able to add another cartouch but i coudn't do that now.
Normally i can do 2-3 big accelerations, now that isn't the case. Probably some after effects of Covid. But nothing is lost, i"m still 2nd and i'm looking forward to tomorrow.
"

I think he has some freedom here because its not a race he lived/trained/suffered for. Its basicaly he stage race he could start without pressure . (Like has been demonstrated by us the fans )
Imagine if he started the tour with this form and tried to go for a stage win and dropped like a brick because of it.

edit: from his interview, if his team would have been stronger he would have had the ability to wait longer . So give him a Sep Kuss/Vine/... as last person and he can sit in the wheel until the end

 

[Extinction]

In the interview he basically said::

"
I needed to go, my teammates were empty so i had to do something.
I put in a strong attack and a few other strong people could follow. I had a bad moment on the hardest part of the climb, where i shoud have been able to add another cartouch but i coudn't do that now.
Normally i can do 2-3 big accelerations, now that isn't the case. Probably some after effects of Covid. But nothing is lost, i"m still 2nd and i'm looking forward to tomorrow.
"

I think he has some freedom here because its not a race he lived/trained/suffered for. Its basicaly he stage race he could start without pressure . (Like has been demonstrated by us the fans )
Imagine if he started the tour with this form and tried to go for a stage win and dropped like a brick because of it.

edit: from his interview, if his team would have been stronger he would have had the ability to wait longer . So give him a Sep Kuss/Vine/... as last person and he can sit in the wheel until the end

But that's not the case, so you have to use your head. And the team directory should never have put him in that position. Soudal isn't Ineos or Jumbo. They needed to make UAE work and let Remco capitalize upon it, not leave him alone at 6 km out. I mean it's elementary my dear Watttson.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Yes i think it wouldve been better if Cattaneo and Knox had gone just a bit slower so they combined could last maybe 2 km longer.

 

[peterfin]

In those races, however, he clearly had another gear, which after how the Giro ended he simply can't have now. He thus needs to work towards regaining that extra gear, not race as if he already has it.

He did his best to get back in a decent shape in the Ardennes. He must have some data to support that his move made sense (I hope!). The lack of that extra gear may come down to little things and not a lot of extra training. Race hardness, the cold he was talking about, a lingering impact of covid? I am still hopeful that he gets better the coming days.

 

[red_flanders]

In the interview he basically said::

"
I needed to go, my teammates were empty so i had to do something.
I put in a strong attack and a few other strong people could follow. I had a bad moment on the hardest part of the climb, where i shoud have been able to add another cartouch but i coudn't do that now.
Normally i can do 2-3 big accelerations, now that isn't the case. Probably some after effects of Covid. But nothing is lost, i"m still 2nd and i'm looking forward to tomorrow.
"

I think he has some freedom here because its not a race he lived/trained/suffered for. Its basicaly he stage race he could start without pressure . (Like has been demonstrated by us the fans )
Imagine if he started the tour with this form and tried to go for a stage win and dropped like a brick because of it.

edit: from his interview, if his team would have been stronger he would have had the ability to wait longer . So give him a Sep Kuss/Vine/... as last person and he can sit in the wheel until the end

Yeah, let's be honest, his team sucks. I'm looking forward to the rest of the race, would be great to see him pull out the win from behind for a change. If he can hold on in the mountains, and they can square away their tactics (don't pull), he can win this.

 

[bNator]

Right, but prudence after a downward turn, because of crashes and Covid at the Giro, should have been the order of the day, not gambling on an exploit. He should have marked Ayuso and gambled on the sprint to the line. And then test the afterburners thereafter or else follow and cash in on the TT. He comes out fresher and with reserves in the tank.

But that would have made him a mountain sprinter and wheelsucker

 

[SHAD0W93]

But that would have made him a mountain sprinter and wheelsucker

Sometimes you live long enough to be the villian

 

[Nick2413]

So are other teams going to push the pace on the climbs now or will that just play into his hands since he won’t be the one taking the wind?

 

[Extinction]

But that would have made him a mountain sprinter and wheelsucker

When a lack of panache is not your modus operandi, but blunt realism out of sheer necessity, it's what you gotta do. 😉

 

[Extinction]

So are other teams going to push the pace on the climbs now or will that just play into his hands since he won’t be the one taking the wind?

They have to try and drop Remco before the TT, so the former.

 

[Nick2413]

They have to try and drop Remco before the TT, so the former.

Sure but it’s worth a shot waiting and seeing if he bites again to basically do a repeat of today.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But that would have made him a mountain sprinter and wheelsucker

I hope fans of certain riders realise there is more than either wheelsucking the entire time, and being so stupid to do all the work on your own. There is middle ground, it's called, taking turns.

 

[Extinction]

He did his best to get back in a decent shape in the Ardennes. He must have some data to support that his move made sense (I hope!). The lack of that extra gear may come down to little things and not a lot of extra training. Race hardness, the cold he was talking about, a lingering impact of covid? I am still hopeful that he gets better the coming days.

Getting back to "decent shape" in the Ardennes, however, after illness and an aborted primary mission, isn't enough to think you can simply ride everyone off your wheels who just came down from altitude ideally prepared. And when it was apparent that indeed wasn't the case, because of the setbacks and sub-optimal perpartion, he should have immediately stopped insisting and made the two who eventually attacked him start working. Instead he only set them up perfectly, like a dutiful teammate, to surge ahead when "his work was done".

Better still would have been to play the waiting game and see how long you resist. It was not only totally justified after what he's been through, but the only smart thing to do. Given how he finished yesterday, despite he and the team having ridden like a boneheads, it's likely he would have arrived with a select few sprinting for the win or else got dropped only in the last couple hundred meters to lose just a handfull of seconds. And when you get dropped in the end, because you have to let up before blowing, instead of burrying yourself from too far out, normally the next days you improve. He can still raise his level, but no more dumbass riding.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Meh. I prefer to watch a smart rider rather than someone who rides on the front expecting to drop everyone, and when that doesn't happen they just push on without a clear plan. What is he trying to do? Get in shape for the Belgian championships?

Really? So when Evenepoel isn't feeling great, and he does what Skjelmose did, just wheelsuck his way to glory, you'd start to like Evenepoel more? I would really like to see that because i don't believe it for a second.

Anyway, his move was so stupid, borderline <censured word> that i have to start wondering if this was perhaps just his way of showing that he isn't in good enough shape, which gives him the excuse to not do any more work next time, that others can attack and he will be the one to follow instead of the other way around. If he plays it like that, then fair play. If next time he does the exact same thing however, then he is a lot dumber than i expected. Unless for some reason he is not even trying to win the GC.

 

[Extinction]

Meh. I prefer to watch a smart rider rather than someone who rides on the front expecting to drop everyone, and when that doesn't happen they just push on without a clear plan. What is he trying to do? Get in shape for the Belgian championships?

Well he's certainly not thinking about the Tour. 😂

But seriously, I agree that intelligent riding is always preferable to utter imbecility. But there are no worries that he stops riding with panache when back in top shape.

PS: This is why he should go to the Tour, to learn to ride intelligently and, with humility, play well the cards he has. He wouldn't have done that with Vingeggard and Pogacar in the field in his present condition. And so he has to learn to manager himself better, especially when he goes up against them at the Tour. The only way to learn this is to ride the Tour.

 

[Extinction]

Sure but it’s worth a shot waiting and seeing if he bites again to basically do a repeat of today.

If he bites again he's fired.