Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Pantani_lives]

He's the new Marino Lejarreta!

After his first win people said, "This won't work again next time!" Well, it did work again the next time, and the time after that.

 

[Netserk]

The case for Evenepoel would have more legs to stand on if he actually defeated Pogi in Liège.

 

[Riek s]

Remco only targets races where he has a 50% of winning. He can try winning the same races over and over again, that suits him the best. His palmares is starting to look similar to Valverde atm. Thats not a slight to anyone, so dont take it as that.

Talking about who is the best one-day racer in the peloton, though?

How could it be anyone else in the peloton, than Pog.

Nobody comes close to be able to compete in as many different types of races as him. Has won as many different types of races in the current peloton. So who is the best "one-day racer" should be pretty obvious.

Remco might arguably be the best on a hilly and long course... but he is not a better one-day racer than a guy who has won SB, competes in MSR for the win, Ronde, LBL, Fleche, Amstel and Lombardia. Gravel, hills, cobbles and mountains.

The best one-day racer should be someone who can compete on pretty much every type of course and has the results to back it up. Thats Pog atm.

Keep in mind that the guy is 23 and missed a year to a fall.
He is basically busy with his 2nd full year. 2019 he was a junior in pro peleton, 2020 he crashed. 2021 he missed the complete classic season due to it and started with the giro and struggled to find his best the whole year. So he only had the opportunity to ride the spring classics twice, and this year he almost didn't if it was Lefevre choice. (Which ironically for a classic team, is probably the most holding him back from doing more classics)

Pogacar is atm the most versatile rider, but also had many more opportunities to show it. (he wasn't held back in participating it).
With the route changes of RVV, i think RVV is also geared towards more climber oriented riders compared to before. (I liked the parcour with the muur and bosberg a lot more). I'm not entirely sure Remco won't be able to do well in RVV (despite the cobbles).

Remco will do more classics next year so we will see what he is worth in other one day races that aren't WC RR, LBL, CSB, IL. Think we are all looking forward to it. I think Remco and Pog are a bit similar here, but it might end up with both having to make a choice. Focus more on classics and not win the tour, or have a bigger shot at the tour and drop more of the classics. (I think Pog might be steering in that direction next year).

FYI: you are also describing WVA: won MSR, podiumed RVV, podiummed PR, 3rd in LBL, won AGR, won SB

FYI2: Pog doesn't win RVV or SB due to the gravel or cobbles, but due to the climbs in those classics (despite the gravel/cobbles). If there were no climbs, i'm not sure if he would be the winner.

 

[Salvarani]

Keep in mind that the guy is 23 and missed a year to a fall.
He is basically busy with his 2nd full year. 2019 he was a junior in pro peleton, 2020 he crashed. 2021 he missed the complete classic season due to it and started with the giro and struggled to find his best the whole year. So he only had the opportunity to ride the spring classics twice, and this year he almost didn't if it was Lefevre choice. (Which ironically for a classic team, is probably the most holding him back from doing more classics)

Pogacar is atm the most versatile rider, but also had many more opportunities to show it. (he wasn't held back in participating it).
With the route changes of RVV, i think RVV is also geared towards more climber oriented riders compared to before. (I liked the parcour with the muur and bosberg a lot more). I'm not entirely sure Remco won't be able to do well in RVV.

Remco will do more classics next year so we will see what he is worth in other one day races that aren't WC RR, LBL, CSB, IL.

FYI: you are also describing WVA: won MSR, podiumed RVV, podiummed PR, 3rd in LBL, won AGR, won SB

FYI2: Pog doesn't win RVV or SB due to the gravel or cobbles, but due to the climbs in those classics (despite the gravel/cobbles). If there were no climbs, i'm not sure if he would be the winner.

Yeah, yeah... he missed a lot of because of his crash. That has been run into ground at this point.

I can only speak on the present! Who is the best one-day racer in the peloton should be pretty obvious going by versatility and results. As I said, we will see what happens in the future.

FYI. Im not describing WVA... since WVA has only won one monument (Pog four) and he is not competing in Lombardia. WVA is not competing in a mountainous one-day race. A stage in the Tour is different. 2-3 weeks in. WVA may have gravel, hills and cobbles... but he doesnt tick off mountains. Close, but not all there in terms of versatility. He doesnt have the results. Wins matter more than podiums and placings.

FYI2. I dont know how to even respond to this. Sure, if every one-day race would be changed into a route similar to Scheldeprijs, then maybe he would run into some trouble. So would a lot of riders, we are mentioning. Maybe Jasper Philipsen will take over as the best one-day racer.

 

[Frobisher Bay]

He won the Druivenkoers, Coppa Bernocchi and Brussels Cycling Classic so it's not like he needs a lot of hills. Belgian Championship was pancake flat.

 

[peterfin]

What I know is that if he starts a one-day race with the intention to win, he almost always ends up on top. Also impressive are his TT's where he basically needs bad luck or a really bad shape not to end on the podium. His consistency is amazing and better than Pogacar.

 

[Riek s]

Yeah, yeah... he missed a lot of because of his crash. That has been run into ground at this point. but that doesn't change that he only competed in the classics for 2 years. (and even this year is was his choice to do LBL, otherwise he wouldn't have done anything.

I can only speak on the present! Who is the best one-day racer in the peloton should be pretty obvious going by versatility and results. As I said, we will see what happens in the future. True, by result Pog is at the front of the pack ranging from RVV to il lombardia. (only because Philippe isn't racing anymore ).

FYI. Im not describing WVA... since WVA has only won one monument (Pog four) and he is not competing in Lombardia. WVA is not competing in a mountainous one-day race. A stage in the Tour is different. 2-3 weeks in. WVA may have gravel, hills and cobbles... but he doesnt tick off mountains. Close, but not all there in terms of versatility. He doesnt have the results. Wins matter more than podiums and placings. Sice we talked about one-day racing, stages in GT are excluded. WVA also has a mass sprint which Pog doesn't have. unfortunatly we don't have real sprint monuments, but it does give him more odds on some of those semi classics like omloop/Kuurne/..). Since you listed podium spots for Pog, we can also look at podium spots for WVA, which he had on all spring monuments. (Pog hasn't )
I'm no saying WVa is the better one day racer, but the things you listed could have just as well been about WVA.

FYI2. I dont know how to even respond to this. Sure, if every one-day race would be changed into a route similar to Scheldeprijs, then maybe he would run into some trouble. So would a lot of riders, we are mentioning. Maybe Jasper Philipsen will take over as the best one-day racer. I think it does matter since you bring up versatility, which Pog is for sure. But he still needs the climbs to make the difference. Its not the cobbles or the gravel that makes the difference for him.

 

[Volderke]

Anyone has a 50% of winning in every race they start. Either you do or you don't.

With this sound mathematics explanation, I'm really tempted now to buy a lottery ticket.

 

[slim charles]

Anyone has a 50% of winning in every race they start. Either you do or you don't.

Exactly, which is why the bookies give you the exact same odds for each rider entering the race.

 

[Salvarani]

@Riek s

That just proves to me that he is so far very selective on the races he chooses to race and targets. Those who suits him best, which I said is not a bad thing. Thats why I made a cheeky comment on him and Valverdes palmares starting to look similar.

I said current peloton and so on, which you choose to ignore when mentioning Gilbert.

Pog has a good sprint. He won LBL from a sprint. Not every rider is great on the gravel or cobbles or can win those type of races and LBL/Lombardia. I didnt mention placings or podiums. Van Aert is versatile, but not as versatile as Pog, and he doesnt have the results to match Pog. Not in terms of wins, which matters the most across every type of race. In cobbles as a whole Van Aert has more wins, just focusing on the cobbles. Still Pog has won Ronde, the biggest race.

It is not just about the climbing either. Strongest rider wins these type of races and monuments. Very few can compete in pretty much all of them, like Pog. Thats why he has/should have the title as the best one-day racer currently. Being great on multiple terrains.

Also it is not like Cancellara, Boonen and so on didnt make the difference on the climbs in Ronde as well. That is just such a weird point from you. That he needs the climbs... sure. What rider doesnt need hard parts of a race to make an attack or make the winning move? Thats where pretty much every big race is decided.

For arguments sake, he attacked on the beginning of a descent in SB and soloed to win. What about that? Im off this now.

 

[Netserk]

The only one-day race Van Aert won in a bunch sprint is Bretagne Classic (18 riders with the same time). Pogi has won in a bigger bunch sprint in Tre Valli Varesine (20 riders with the same time).

For comparison, Sagan has Québeq (35 and 19 riders), Worlds (26 & 12) and G-W (19).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The only one delusional here, is you, stop insulting someone just because others have a different opinion, have some respect, you should learn that, and maybe you wouldn't get "off" more times from this forum.
He is not doing, milan san remo, flandres, paris roubaix, fleche wallone, amstel, he never won a il lombardia, excepts for one or two important races, he never won the other most important races, and never face the best in that important races.

That's unbelievable how you can think that he can be even a better one day racer than pogacar.
Go check his palmares and the palmares that van der poel and pogacar have, you need to the that, and see what van der poel and pogacar won in the last 2 years in terms of one day races, compared with remco. They won more one day races, and more important one day races like monuments.

Maybe you should read a bit more closely so you would understand what i actually said, and not get tilted for what you think i said. I said you are delusional if (if = condition) you think Van der Poel was going to stop Evenepoel in Wolongong. I actually specifically said the discussion about the CURRENT (not future) best one day racer, is between him (Evenepoel) and Pogacar. So unlike what you seem to think, i didn't claim he is better than Pogacar (though i think he is). Van der Poel is not a stage racer, he barely wins stages and he even wins fewer classifications. It is logical and obvious that he would race more one day races and focus on them more, thus have a larger palmares. It doesn't make him a better one day racer.

I told you the numbers, you chose to ignore them. Evenepoel won a WCC and two monuments. Van der Poel won 4 monuments, as did Pogacar. But they needed a lot more tries for it. Evenepoel is 8/20 for 200+k one day races. Van der Poel is 6/31, Pogacar 6/27. How on earth is that better. And no, there is no question mark at the end of that sentence. Evenepoel is 1/3 WCC and 2/4 monuments. That includes those he rode when he was still coming back from his crash and when he wasn't allowed by the national coach to race his own race.

 

[Netserk]

Not even I would place greater emphasis on Brussels Cycling Classic than Flèche Wallonne when discussing who is the best classics rider.

 

[Panda Claws]

Evenepoel probably castest

Remco only targets races where he has a 50% of winning. He can try winning the same races over and over again, that suits him the best. His palmares is starting to look similar to Valverde atm. Thats not a slight to anyone, so dont take it as that.

Talking about who is the best one-day racer in the peloton, though?

How could it be anyone else in the peloton, than Pog.

Nobody comes close to be able to compete in as many different types of races as him. Has won as many different types of races in the current peloton. So who is the best "one-day racer" should be pretty obvious.

Remco might arguably be the best on a hilly and long course... but he is not a better one-day racer than a guy who has won SB, competes in MSR for the win, Ronde, LBL, Fleche, Amstel and Lombardia. Gravel, hills, cobbles and mountains.

The best one-day racer should be someone who can compete on pretty much every type of course and has the results to back it up. Thats Pog atm.

By that logic Gilbert was always the best.

 

[Netserk]

By that logic Gilbert was always the best.

Merckx was better.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not even I would place greater emphasis on Brussels Cycling Classic than Flèche Wallonne when discussing who is the best classics rider.

And who is doing that, pray tell.

 

[Salvarani]

By that logic Gilbert was always the best.

Gilbert was probably the best during his incredible peak.

He didnt make results all at once though through every terrain. He transitioned over time over from the hilly ones to the cobbles. He never did both at the same time. Being one of the best in both.

He wasnt doing what Pog is doing today. I think that is where you misunderstand the "logic".

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Evenepol wiped the floor with Santi bitrago and Quentin Hermans in his Liege wins, and treats San Sebastian like a monument when for most riders it is a post-tour criterium.

This doesn't make him a better one-day racer than the guy who destroyed Mathieu van der poel at his own game in Tour of Flanders, whilst also dominating lombardia both times he did it.

 

[topcat]

Question: Who’s a better one day racer Pog or Remco?
Answer: MVDP

 

[Salvarani]

Evenepol wiped the floor with Santi bitrago and Quentin Hermans in his Liege wins, and treats San Sebastian like a monument when for most riders it is a post-tour criterium.

This doesn't make him a better one-day racer than the guy who destroyed Mathieu van der poel at his own game in Tour of Flanders, whilst also dominating lombardia both times he did it.

But he is 2/4 in monuments that he has actually started! He must be the best! Cmon now.

Had he started MSR and Ronde he would probably be 5/8...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Evenepol wiped the floor with Santi bitrago and Quentin Hermans in his Liege wins, and treats San Sebastian like a monument when for most riders it is a post-tour criterium.

This doesn't make him a better one-day racer than the guy who destroyed Mathieu van der poel at his own game in Tour of Flanders, whilst also dominating lombardia both times he did it.

Yes yes, i get what Blanco was saying. You are a funny guy. Poking fun of the the startlist Evenepoel won Liège in, failing to mention riders like Pidcock, Van Aert, Mohoric etc, not doing the same for Pogacar's FAR LESS dominant Lombardia wins, against succesful one day racers like ... drumrolls.... Mas, Rodriguez, Masnada.

Remco only targets races where he has a 50% of winning. He can try winning the same races over and over again, that suits him the best. His palmares is starting to look similar to Valverde atm. Thats not a slight to anyone, so dont take it as that.

I eagerly await Van der Poel in Emilia, Liège, Lombardia, San Sebastian... next year!

 

[Ulle97]

I'd say that both Pogacar and Evenepoel are exceptional one day racers and on a given day, one could beat the other.

Probably Pogacar is a bit better rounded as he can perform on the cobbles.
Both men will undoubtedly add more one day victories to their palmares.

 

[Salvarani]

I'd say that both Pogacar and Evenepoel are exceptional one day racers and on a given day, one could beat the other.

Probably Pogacar is a bit better rounded as he can perform on the cobbles.
Both men will undoubtedly add more one day victories to their palmares.

Remco is an exceptional one-trick pony. He can win many LBLs, Sebastians and maybe another worlds in the future as well. Having the best team to back him.

He has to prove if he can compete in MSR, Lombardia or on the cobbles. Maybe he has a chance to prove himself in the spring next year, if he is going to the Tour. He should have no problem racking up wins in the spring if he is the best. I am at least expecting him to win quite easily many more and different type of races. He is just so good. Much better in fact than everybody else.

Would be a shame if it only stops with LBL, Worlds and Sebastian for him.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Lol you doubt whether a guy who won LBL twice and CSS 3 times at the age of 23 can "compete" in Lombardia?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Lol you doubt whether a guy who won LBL twice and CSS 3 times at the age of 23 can "compete" in Lombardia?

And calling him a one trick pony. The trick being: being so strong nobody can follow you. Regardless of it being uphill, on the flat or on hilly terrain. And recently also uphill sprints, sprints from a select group, sprints-à-deux.
Well it's easy when you have a trick like that! Haha, man, you can't make this stuff up.