Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[ManicJack]

The upcoming Vuelta might shed a bit more light for those who doubt his merit. Or it might just put us no-doubters in our place for a little while. Either way, as many others here I'm happy to be entertained by a fantastic cyclist.

That's a very reasonable take on things. I'm very far from the over hyped side of Remco, but wouldn't be surprised if he proves me wrong. Entertaining either way.

 

[Riek s]

What does one need to do to be considered a GT rider?

 

[Netserk]

What does one need to do to be considered a GT rider?

Not much, if you truly mean merely a GT rider. I consider Evenepoel (also) a GT rider.

 

[ManicJack]

What does one need to do to be considered a GT rider?

Start and finish a GT. To be considered the best as some believe him to be? You tell us.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

He has a lot of confidence but also a lot of respect for his opponents. In news articles his words are often taken out of context for click bait giving the impression that he is brash and overconfident while his words were much more nuanced. Unless you are a fan, you typically won't read it but the headlines will stick. For example, while he will say that winning the TdF is his ultimate dream, the press might quote it in a way that gives the impression that he has no doubt he will do it. All of this adds to the general perception and for some riders it turns out net negative (like Remco) and others net possitive (like Pogacar). As a result some are also allowed to say more than others. Tom Pidcock said last year that there is a good chance that he will win the TdF. Apparently he can say that without being ridiculed.

It's interesting you also mention Pidcock as I get the sense that both are something of a gift to journos as they are a bit more blunt and open than most, which is then sometimes twisted by the headline writers or perceived as arrogant by fans of other riders. I saw an interview with Pidcock before the TDF where he said that although he had no chance of winning the GC (it seems British journalists keep asking him about winning, guess they're desperate for their next contender), the first couple of stages might suit him and if he won one it may give him a chance of wearing yellow. This became a headline of "I'm going to win the yellow jersey" which was widely perceived as ridiculous by those who just saw the headline.

I'm glad Remco is around as he certainly makes things more interesting and entertaining, both in his racing style which is often exciting and different to other top riders, and in his interviews. I admit that some of his earlier behaviour grated a bit, but he's definitely grown on me and I'm sure I'm far from the only "non-believer" he's converted. Just want to see more duels with the likes of Pog going forwards.

 

[bNator]

What does one need to do to be considered a GT rider?

It takes a while for a rider to be cosidered a really top challenger. I remember how Roglic was doubted he could keep his form for 3 weeks up until he won Vuelta in 2019. 4th place in TDF 2018 and 3rd in Grio 2019 were not nearly enough. Some even called him a 2-week stage racer back then. Don't worry, if Remco proves his quality again this year against a stronger field than last year or if he manages to challenge for TDF next year, noone will doubt him anymore...

 

[houtdffan]

He hasn't proven himself as a top-dog stage racer yet. It does sound a bit weird considering he won the Vuelta. But so did Simon Yates... Until he beats Roglic (last year can't really count), Pog or Vinge and beats them consistently, until he does that, his reputation regarding stage racing preceeds him...

last year most certainly should count. Remco was through all of the stages where Rog could make a difference. Rog was not pulling back the final 2 minutes in the final week

 

[bNator]

last year most certainly should count. Remco was through all of the stages where Rog could make a difference. Rog was not pulling back the final 2 minutes in the final week

I would expect a bit more understanding as far as physical injuries are concerned from a Remco fan. Rogla had broken his vertebrae 6 weeks prior to the start of the Vuelta. While I agree he would not beat Remco last year had he not crashed out from la Vuelta, he sure as hell was not in his peak. So I don’t think last year counts… Not that it matters anyway - what happens this year will count for much more.

 

[ManicJack]

last year most certainly should count. Remco was through all of the stages where Rog could make a difference. Rog was not pulling back the final 2 minutes in the final week

Against a beat up, broken and under prepared Roglic

 

[houtdffan]

Against a beat up, broken and under prepared Roglic

and against a Mas who was on Pog's form as shown in the italian classics

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

and against a Mas who was on Pog's form as shown in the italian classics

Don't forget, Mas is a whipping boy on here but if those posters were half as good as posting as Mas in on a bike then this would be a wondrous place.

 

[Sciatic]

Don't forget, Mas is a whipping boy on here but if those posters were half as good as posting as Mas in on a bike then this would be a wondrous place.

I think to get even a semblance of that (wondrous posts) you first of all ne d to leave this thread

 

[Berniece]

I would expect a bit more understanding as far as physical injuries are concerned from a Remco fan. Rogla had broken his vertebrae 6 weeks prior to the start of the Vuelta. While I agree he would not beat Remco last year had he not crashed out from la Vuelta, he sure as hell was not in his peak. So I don’t think last year counts… Not that it matters anyway - what happens this year will count for much more.

Just like this year doesn’t count for Roglic, because Remco would have won that Giro easily

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I think to get even a semblance of that (wondrous posts) you first of all ne d to leave this thread

What and go to the Rogla Bromance or Belgian Potato threads?
Seriously though, you got me thinking and it's possibly only the (less frequently visited) Pogacar thread that's not full of people arguing with stans.

 

[Sciatic]

What and go to the Rogla Bromance or Belgian Potato threads?
Seriously though, you got me thinking and it's possibly only the (less frequently visited) Pogacar thread that's not full of people arguing with stans.

Good point, won’t do much better there. I still visit these threads in case the new posts might have information about from interviews or comments in the local sports media or team press releases that I wouldn’t find elsewhere, or at least not in English, But then sometimes I get there and think “How silly of me.”

 

[meat puppet]

This thread cannot but deliver during the Vuelta. Either he drops Vingegaard, and regulars will explain why black is white also this side of the clinic, or he is dropped, in which case regulars will explain why white is black.

 

[bNator]

Just like this year doesn’t count for Roglic, because Remco would have won that Giro easily

There’s a big difference between saying someone’s win doesn’t count or some rider beating another rider doesn’t count. Sure - we can’t say Rogla beat Remco in this years Giro. So his better result against Remco doesn’t count. Or do you count it as Rogla beating Remco? You don’t, do you? See, the same way you can’t really count Remco beating Rogla last year due to special circumstances. Of course he won Vuelta, his victory counts. Whether that is enough to consider him absolute top GT rider. I think not. Simple as that…

 

[ManicJack]

This thread cannot but deliver during the Vuelta. Either he drops Vingegaard, and regulars will explain why black is white also this side of the clinic, or he is dropped, in which case regulars will explain why white is black.

If Remco gets dropped, the Clinic is going to explode. Fun times ahead either way.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

He is still below Geraint Thomas as a proven stage racer.

But this is a bit of a strange comparison as one has almost finished his career and the other still are very young.

 

[houtdffan]

There’s a big difference between saying someone’s win doesn’t count or some rider beating another rider doesn’t count. Sure - we can’t say Rogla beat Remco in this years Giro. So his better result against Remco doesn’t count. Or do you count it as Rogla beating Remco? You don’t, do you? See, the same way you can’t really count Remco beating Rogla last year due to special circumstances. Of course he won Vuelta, his victory counts. Whether that is enough to consider him absolute top GT rider. I think not. Simple as that…

Remco was nearly a full minute ahead of Rog when he left the giro due to circumstances beyond his control

 

[Netserk]

But this is a bit of a strange comparison as one has almost finished his career and the other still are very young.

Let me put it like this: Thomas has proven more over the past two years, and in the hypothetical scenario where neither rider would step up nor decline the following year, I think Thomas would be more likely to beat Evenepoel in the Tour next year than vice versa. I just don't think the Vuelta Evenepoel would have been able to land on the podium in the Tour last year.

 

[frisenfruitig]

What is an absolute top GT rider? If that means being either Vingegaard or Pogacar then I get it.

We don't know how he stacks up against those 2 but he's certainly up there fighting for that 3rd spot. What I thought was most promising was the fact that he didn't have a single off-day for 3 weeks in last year's Vuelta. Even when he lost time he was still able to limit the losses.

 

[seasidehiking]

I would expect a bit more understanding as far as physical injuries are concerned from a Remco fan. Rogla had broken his vertebrae 6 weeks prior to the start of the Vuelta. While I agree he would not beat Remco last year had he not crashed out from la Vuelta, he sure as hell was not in his peak. So I don’t think last year counts… Not that it matters anyway - what happens this year will count for much more.

I dont want to be rude, but you write some amount of drivel!

So Vinge his tdf doesnt count since Poga broke his wrist in April? Roughly same timeline and his preparation wasnt perfect. If Roglic would have gained lot of time after Evenepoel fell last Vuelta, would you have said the same? That Roglic his Vuelta doesnt count since Remco wasnt fully fit. Lets discount Bernal his Giro while we are at it, since Remco clearly wasnt fit enough to compete back then. Does MVDP win in PR count since WVA had a puncture when he was arguably the strongest in the race? Or MVDP his win when Alaphilip hit the motorbike in RVV? And and and…

Its a sport where accidents are very frequent. Every cyclist knows that its part and parcel of the sports. its only armchair fans like you who like to use it to diminish someone’s victories. its such a lack of respect for what a cyclist has to do to compete in a GT on highest level. Never mind winning it after falling and having a few painful and rough days. That takes some resilience that deserves utmost of respect!

 

[seasidehiking]

Let me put it like this: Thomas has proven more over the past two years, and in the hypothetical scenario where neither rider would step up nor decline the following year, I think Thomas would be more likely to beat Evenepoel in the Tour next year than vice versa. I just don't think the Vuelta Evenepoel would have been able to land on the podium in the Tour last year.

I think you are re-writing history a little. Arguably Remco would have won two grand tours in a row. Last Vuelta and this years Giro. He was in grand form, obliterated the opponents on first TT and won 2nd even when ill. Remember the words of Thomas: little pr*ck, when a sick Remco beat him… chances are higher that he would have won and beat Thomas in the Giro, which would have made 2 GT’s in two year versus 0. But we will never know, since its opinions. Facts were Remco was first with two stage wins and then fell ill and had to leave at a moment where he still was first.

 

[Netserk]

I dont want to be rude, but you write some amount of drivel!

So Vinge his tdf doesnt count since Poga broke his wrist in April? Roughly same timeline and his preparation wasnt perfect. If Roglic would have gained lot of time after Evenepoel fell last Vuelta, would you have said the same? That Roglic his Vuelta doesnt count since Remco wasnt fully fit. Lets discount Bernal his Giro while we are at it, since Remco clearly wasnt fit enough to compete back then. Does MVDP win in PR count since WVA had a puncture when he was arguably the strongest in the race? Or MVDP his win when Alaphilip hit the motorbike in RVV? And and and…

Its a sport where accidents are very frequent. Every cyclist knows that its part and parcel of the sports. its only armchair fans like you who like to use it to diminish someone’s victories. its such a lack of respect for what a cyclist has to do to compete in a GT on highest level. Never mind winning it after falling and having a few painful and rough days. That takes some resilience that deserves utmost of respect!

It's not the coronation of a moral winner.

It's about evaluating a performance as a predictor of future performances. Nick Nuyens was a worthy winner of De Ronde, but everyone knew that it wouldn't make him a favourite for the following year's edition.