Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[peterfin]

It's never boring with Remco around. Simply unbreakable!

Being unbreakable. It's not the first time he refers to it. After his crash from the bridge there was a lot of buzz by media and the UCI because of something Bramati took out of his back pocket while he was suffering potential career ending injuries. To make a statement, Remco posted a story of him in action with "Unbreakable" from Michael Jackson. Being mentally unbreakable is also what he admires in Roglic. I hope that both attack this Saturday, Roglic for the GT win and Remco for the stage to show again that they might bend under (team) pressure but not break.

 

[Red Rick]

Im not a huge fan or a huge detractor, but thats just a dumb statement IMO. Remco has done much more for the race and I'd argue his efforts are worth a lot more than Landa's 5th in this race, for example. Or even worse Mas' 6th.

His GC failure is the primary reason the GC fight turned into this procession. And frankly the only fun part to me is the fact they can actually be battles when the GC race is boring and that I don't know who's gonna win as soon as I see the list of names on the breakaway.

But I guess that argument also goes for Ayuso, Mas, Almeida and Landa. They weren't good enough to stop it from being a procession. The only entertainment we got from that lot was Marc Soler, the legend himself.

 

[theyoungest]

Being unbreakable. It's not the first time he refers to it. After his crash from the bridge there was a lot of buzz by media and the UCI because of something Bramati took out of his back pocket while he was suffering potential career ending injuries. To make a statement, Remco posted a story of him in action with "Unbreakable" from Michael Jackson. Being mentally unbreakable is also what he admires in Roglic. I hope that both attack this Saturday, Roglic for the GT win and Remco for the stage to show again that they might bend under (team) pressure but not break.

I think "mentally unbreakable" is more what the much less heralded Joao Almeida showed, when he got dropped at just about the same time as Evenepoel did on the Aubisque and rode 100 km more or less on his own to save his GC. Wout Poels was on his wheel for a lot of it and he said he couldn't believe it when he read the stage result and saw that Almeida still came 15th. But Almeida isn't a darling of the press like Evenepoel is, so you won't hear anything about it.

 

[Blanco]

I think "mentally unbreakable" is more what the much less heralded Joao Almeida showed, when he got dropped at just about the same time as Evenepoel did on the Aubisque and rode 100 km more or less on his own to save his GC. Wout Poels was on his wheel for a lot of it and he said he couldn't believe it when he read the stage result and saw that Almeida still came 15th. But Almeida isn't a darling of the press like Evenepoel is, so you won't hear anything about it.

Well, Almeida is a true Grand Tour GC rider, old school.
Remco.., he just loves to win.

 

[red_flanders]

I think "mentally unbreakable" is more what the much less heralded Joao Almeida showed, when he got dropped at just about the same time as Evenepoel did on the Aubisque and rode 100 km more or less on his own to save his GC. Wout Poels was on his wheel for a lot of it and he said he couldn't believe it when he read the stage result and saw that Almeida still came 15th. But Almeida isn't a darling of the press like Evenepoel is, so you won't hear anything about it.

I’m willing to bet if Almedia rode for multiple wins in dominant fashion since the meltdown, he’d be getting plenty of press and darling treatment. But he didn’t. Because he’s nowhere near as talented.

Media likes a spectacle. Because the fans love a spectacle. We like to see incredible things, and following wheels around Spain doesn’t register.

 

[Gratemans]

What an amazing rider today, people can try to downplay it but he shows again how great he can be on a good day

I won't downplay this stage win, it was great.
On a good day, he's phenomenal.
On a bad day though...
I'll keep downplaying him as a GT rider for the time being if you don't mind. A GT rider doesn't have bad days. They have mediocre days, but no bad days. Certainly not "ship-half-an-hour" bad days.

 

[Gratemans]

I’m willing to bet if Almedia rode for multiple wins in dominant fashion since the meltdown, he’d be getting plenty of press and darling treatment. But he didn’t. Because he’s nowhere near as talented.

Media likes a spectacle. Because the fans love a spectacle. We like to see incredible things, and following wheels around Spain doesn’t register.

I love how this kind of encapsulates the whole of cycling. The good and the bad.

^ What I'm saying here has nothing to do with Remco by the way! before anybody gets their knickers in a twist. The sentence "we like to see incredible things" was just the perfect summation of cycling to me.

 

[dennisdy]

It's pretty clear that El Patron decided this race (as it should be) with his comment about getting rid of the red jersey. Then JV attacked with Kuss and the rest is history...

He did get rid of the jersey, but Kuss's unexpectedly strong performance in the TT sealed the deal.

 

[Andre]

Someone said that Kuss is the only one happy with La Vuelta....and even he had to apologize to The Fish. Good GT for Kuss. Good one for Remco too. He just needs a little more form to be able to fight better in stages like Tourmalet and Angliru.

 

[Big Doopie]

Remco and Sepp appear to be buddies.

Funny how all these riders who most people consider good blokes are friendly with Remco - Pinot, G, Bardet and now Kuss.

All friends with this apparent arrogant SOB.

 

[Big Doopie]

Lordy.

Only GC riders that exist for some people’s criteria are simply Vingo, Pog and Rog.

According to the haters criteria freakin Bernal was never a GC rider (even in his heyday).

 

[ALC]

Are you guys really questioning here if Remco is a GC rider?? Is this for real??
For God sake, the kid is not only a GC rider but he is already a GC winner!

Debating if he will ever reach Vinge/Pog’s GC level is one thing, questioning if he is a GC rider is totally nonsense…

 

[Big Doopie]

50 wins.

Before Pog.

Before Merckx.

Haha!

Is he better than those two? No. No one is saying that…

But is he an absolute outlier, he is. Is he the most exciting rider, definitely.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

He’s clearly a GC rider; he won the Vuelta last year. But I don’t think he’s as good as Vinge, Pog, or Rog. He might get there, but I don’t think it’s his natural fit, mentally or physically. I think he lives for the big peak moments. GTs are about grinding, surviving attrition, and making smaller moves. 4km attacks, not 40km (generally). The difference between this year and last year was a more typical course, a much better Roglic, and Vingegaard. Remco had worse prep was a year more mature, and his prep should have been better than Kuss’s at least.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

"Giving up", or whatever you wanna call it, was clearly the best option at that point.

Chances are he will head home with 4 stages and KOM. Look at riders like Mas, Ayuso and Landa, what have they done exactly? Im a fan of all of them, but come on, aint nobody will remember their races. I'd much, much be in Remco's shoes.

I hope other riders don’t adopt this mentality, or it will always be a procession. Rationally, no one should attempt to challenge Vingegaard in the Tour. It’d be better to drop time and dominant lesser riders from a breakaway. But it’s more honorable, IMO, to go for the big prize and fight for it. As we saw with the thread’s namesake, people unexpectedly crack, people unexpectedly find wings, crashes, mechanicals, tactical mistakes all happen - happened in this very Vuelta - but if you have up, you’re out.

Edit: It’s like elevating Richard Virenque over Jan Ullrich (ignoring clinic issues all around). If Ullrich tried to do what Virenque did, he would have had some big wind in polka dots, but would that have been better?

 

[Andy schleck]

So can we agree Remco is not a GT rider?
He can't keep up with the best climbers. He tried and failed. FFS, don't waste this fantastic rider! He'll never win a GC again.
And there's nothing wrong with that. He tried and won one already! But that was an outlier. Leave the guy alone already regarding GC's.
He will go on to win multiple great classics of course. But he's no great GT rider, can we at least agree on that? Can we finally stop pretending he's the next coming?

I'm not a remco fan, and sometimes remco fanboys are annoying, but of course remco is a GT rider. He already won a grand tour. If he goes to the tour next year, he will do top 5.

He is a good GT rider, but he is not on pogacar's level and even less on vingegaard's level, but the problem is some fanboys of remco are delusional and think that he is "unstoppable" and the better man.

 

[Big Doopie]

He’s clearly a GC rider; he won the Vuelta last year. But I don’t think he’s as good as Vinge, Pog, or Rog. He might get there, but I don’t think it’s his natural fit, mentally or physically. I think he lives for the big peak moments. GTs are about grinding, surviving attrition, and making smaller moves. 4km attacks, not 40km (generally). The difference between this year and last year was a more typical course, a much better Roglic, and Vingegaard. Remco had worse prep was a year more mature, and his prep should have been better than Kuss’s at least.

I agree with this so much.

Only part is that I think he is way better than Rog. And that present day GTs do the more all-round rider no good.

It’s not just about more ITT to make a difference. How would that really help if you ship 27 minutes in one stage? However, if the ITTs are longer and the flat stages are longer, then the climbers are more worn out in coming to the mountains and cannot fly up them. These 120 km stages with 28 km total of ITT means that exactly the riders that traditionally had a hard time in GTs are now what is considered a GT rider. Herrera in the present day would have won multiple GTs. Same for Fuente and Van Impe.

 

[Big Doopie]

Don’t we all wish Remco had “gained experience” at the TDF by being pack fodder after Covid?

That sentiment really aged well.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I agree with this so much.

Only part is that I think he is way better than Rog. And that present day GTs do the more all-round rider no good.

It’s not just about more ITT to make a difference. How would that really help if you ship 27 minutes in one stage? However, if the ITTs are longer and the flat stages are longer, then the climbers are more worn out in coming to the mountains and cannot fly up them. These 120 km stages with 28 km total of ITT means that exactly the riders that traditionally had a hard time in GTs are now what is considered a GT rider. Herrera in the present day would have won multiple GTs. Same for Fuente and Van Impe.

To be clear, I meant better in GTs, not just “better rider,” which is subjective and gets into what you value. There’s clearly an argument for Remco as top 1 or 2 or 3 all around rider, not for Roglic unless you only care about GTs or he has a big Italian win in his near future.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Don’t we all wish Remco had “gained experience” at the TDF by being pack fodder after Covid?

That sentiment really aged well.

Not to just quote you nonstop, but it seems we’re both active right now, so I’ll own up that I was one who thought he should have gone but now completely agree that was a bad idea. I honestly thought he was more of a Pogi or Contador who could just show up and ride near peak and had a real shot at a podium and outside shot at a win, but he seems more akin to MVDP or Nibali or G in that aspect.

 

[Big Doopie]

To be clear, I meant better in GTs, not just “better rider,” which is subjective and gets into what you value. There’s clearly an argument for Remco as top 1 or 2 or 3 all around rider, not for Roglic unless you only care about GTs or he has a big Italian win in his near future.

I am sorry. I actually figured.

 

[Big Doopie]

Not to just quote you nonstop, but it seems we’re both active right now, so I’ll own up that I was one who thought he should have gone but now completely agree that was a bad idea. I honestly thought he was more of a Pogi or Contador who could just show up and ride near peak and had a real shot at a podium and outside shot at a win, but he seems more akin to MVDP or Nibali or G in that aspect.

Fair.

I didn’t. Different body type completely from nearly all GT riders. He needs perfect prep and nothing to go wrong.

Had he not crashed at last years Vuelta, I think he would have continued to crush all opposition (including Rog).

However, had he come to this Vuelta in that shape and absolutely nothing had gone wrong, I still think Vingo would have beaten him.

 

[houtdffan]

One thing ASO badly needs to change is the points jersey points.

It is far too biased toward sprinters.

Go back to the format that worked. 2 intermediate sprints per day with 6-4-2 points and 35 for flat stages, 25 for medium mountain stages, 20 for mountain stages, and 15 points for TTs.

There is no way no how that Groves deserves the jersey over Remco. One who is fairly dominant in the mountains should have a chance, if he can score any points on the flat stages. I don't mind it being somewhat biased toward the sprinters, but the current points distribution is over the top

 

[Oldermanish]

Roglic at this Vuelta looks better than I ever recall. He looks amazing.

JV should mix it up at tdf 24, 2 captains ride it out.

I doubt they'd do it again. Today I noticed that when Roglic was setting tempo he spent some time back checking on Vingo in the last km. It looked like he wanted to check him so he didn't jump Kuss; just a feeling on the posture. For all of the JV faux harmony I don't think there is alot of trust between those two. When he was quoted prior to yesterday's stage that "the strongest will win..." (paraphrasing) he meant he'd take it to whoever didn't follow the plan and beat that guy. Kuss has followed the plan from all appearances so take from that what you will.
Fortunately JV management had them all come to Jesus this morning so they sung from the same hymnal...

 

[red_flanders]

Don’t we all wish Remco had “gained experience” at the TDF by being pack fodder after Covid?

That sentiment really aged well.

I wonder if anyone was recommending he go as “pack fodder”? I thought he should go as World Champ. Go for some stages and to celebrate the jersey. I think that aged just fine…