Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[scribers]

So Vingegard is better because his average position is lower

What is the math on this? I can be swayed

 

[Berniece]

What is the math on this? I can be swayed

(1+1+2+2) / 4 = 1.5 - Pogacar
(2+1+1) / 3 = 1.333 - Vingegaard

 

[scribers]

(1+1+2+2) / 4 = 1.5 - Pogacar
(2+1+1) / 3 = 1.333 - Vingegaard

Damn your math is fast. I wish I was sitting behind you in class!

 

[ruamruam]

(1+1+2+2) / 4 = 1.5 - Pogacar
(2+1+1) / 3 = 1.333 - Vingegaard

If you add all the GTs not just Tours both have done

Pogacar (3+1+1+2=2)/5 = 1.8
Vingegaard (46+2+1+1+2)/5 = 10.4

 

[tobydawq]

Pog in tdf
1122

Vingo
211

Froome in tdf
211113somethingsomething

 

[Froome]

If you add all the GTs not just Tours both have done

Pogacar (3+1+1+2=2)/5 = 1.8
Vingegaard (46+2+1+1+2)/5 = 10.4

Froome also have 7 grand tours, a better palmares than Vingegaard, but that doesn't mean his current level is stronger than the current level of Vingegaard.

 

[CyclistAbi]

This numbers are fine and all that but i guess we will see on who is who in GT's at the Tour 2024.

 

[Tommeke2005]

This numbers are fine and all that but i guess we will see on who is who in GT's at the Tour 2024.

Fortunately we won't with Pogacar and Evenepoel doing on a full road season (Monuments-GT-Olympics-Worlds). They're doing a different sport and they are as opposite as Froome and Valverde were.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I agree that we will see, but in my Power Ranking I put Vingegaard number one, then Roglic, then Pogacar. If I had to bet, Remco will ascend to 4 after the Tour but, as it stands, he did not ride well in the 2023 Vuelta and Pogacar popped spectacularly the last two GTs he did. Roglic might not reach the spectacular highs that Pogacar can, but I’ve never seen him pop like Pogi and Remco have in their recent GTs. His infamous 2020 ITT failure he still was top 5. Just my take.

Now that the GC “battle” in the 2023 Vuelta is over, bringing the 2023 stage racing season to a conclusion, here is my updated Power Ranking. I placed greater prioritization on demonstrated performance (e.g., G’s second in the Giro) than on speculative performance (e.g., if Remco hadn’t gotten Covid, he might have won the Giro). I considered both GTs (more important) and 1-week stage races (less important).

1. Jonas Vingegaard
2. Primoz Roglic
3. Tadej Pogacar
4. Geraint Thomas
5. Sepp Kuss
6. Remco Evenepoel
7. Adam Yates
8. Simon Yates
9. Joao Almeida
10. Juan Ayuso

 

[AmRacer]

I agree that we will see, but in my Power Ranking I put Vingegaard number one, then Roglic, then Pogacar. If I had to bet, Remco will ascend to 4 after the Tour but, as it stands, he did not ride well in the 2023 Vuelta and Pogacar popped spectacularly the last two GTs he did. Roglic might not reach the spectacular highs that Pogacar can, but I’ve never seen him pop like Pogi and Remco have in their recent GTs. His infamous 2020 ITT failure he still was top 5. Just my take.

When did Poggi pop? He came second twice. Far far ahead of everyone else.
Remco did pop and lost 27 minutes.

 

[scribers]

They mean the I’m gone I’m dead tribute

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I agree that we will see, but in my Power Ranking I put Vingegaard number one, then Roglic, then Pogacar. If I had to bet, Remco will ascend to 4 after the Tour but, as it stands, he did not ride well in the 2023 Vuelta and Pogacar popped spectacularly the last two GTs he did. Roglic might not reach the spectacular highs that Pogacar can, but I’ve never seen him pop like Pogi and Remco have in their recent GTs. His infamous 2020 ITT failure he still was top 5. Just my take.

These rankings of yours, are they satire or not?

 

[Netserk]

What would a non-satirical ranking look like?

 

[Froome]

What would a non-satirical ranking look like?

1-Remco Evenepoel
2-Remco evenepoel
3-Remco Evenepoel
4-Remco Evenepoel
5-Remco Evenepoel

 

[will-10]

I agree that we will see, but in my Power Ranking I put Vingegaard number one, then Roglic, then Pogacar. If I had to bet, Remco will ascend to 4 after the Tour but, as it stands, he did not ride well in the 2023 Vuelta and Pogacar popped spectacularly the last two GTs he did. Roglic might not reach the spectacular highs that Pogacar can, but I’ve never seen him pop like Pogi and Remco have in their recent GTs. His infamous 2020 ITT failure he still was top 5. Just my take.

it's a nice try but the only certainty about any of these rankings is that they're wrong, and everyone disagrees about by how much.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Masnada
Landa,
remco,
fuglsang without vaccination,
froome after getting hard miles,
Roglic when he is on remco wheel.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

1: 2022 Mauricio Moreira
....
1000: 2023 Mauricio Moreira

 

[scribers]

I'm looking for percentages with these rankings

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What would a non-satirical ranking look like?

It would not have Roglic on 2, it would not have Thomas on 4, it would not have Kuss in the top 5 or ahead of Evenepoel, who also won the Vuelta yet without getting free minutes. Guy wins the Vuelta because he was gifted minutes in a breakaway, while his two stronger teammates were on a leash yet effective as a deterrent against other rivals. His only other GC win - ever - was the Tour of Utah. Evenepoel on the other hand has 1 win in 4 GT starts. First, his first Giro was ill advised, too soon after his crash and un(der) prepared. The second one, he won. The third one, he was leading when he had to stop with covid (and after he dropped out his first luitenant started riding for GC and only lost 5 minutes in the remainder of the Giro -not counting his free minutes in a break because then he would have gained time on Roglic and Thomas). The fourth was an afterthought because the second part of the season was planned around the WCC TT (which he won, on a flat course vs tanks like Ganna, Tarling...) and not the Vuelta. Two quite different goals in the same timeframe.

The "problem" for Evenepoel is that he is not a one trick pony and he has different goals in his career, goals many of his GT rivals can't even dream of. So his focus as well as his preperation is much more scattered. You can't beat Ganna on a long flat course in the most important TT of the year, when you are on GT climbing weight. But people are free to ignore the obvious of course and take his bad performances at face value. After his first Giro, there were also plenty of idiots who didn't think he could climb or ever win a GT, so that's fine.

 

[Extinction]

It all comes down to aerobic eficiency and who can top Vingegaard

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

It would not have Roglic on 2, it would not have Thomas on 4, it would not have Kuss in the top 5 or ahead of Evenepoel, who also won the Vuelta yet without getting free minutes. Guy wins the Vuelta because he was gifted minutes in a breakaway, while his two stronger teammates were on a leash yet effective as a deterrent against other rivals. His only other GC win - ever - was the Tour of Utah. Evenepoel on the other hand has 1 win in 4 GT starts. First, his first Giro was ill advised, too soon after his crash and un(der) prepared. The second one, he won. The third one, he was leading when he had to stop with covid (and after he dropped out his first luitenant started riding for GC and only lost 5 minutes in the remainder of the Giro -not counting his free minutes in a break because then he would have gained time on Roglic and Thomas). The fourth was an afterthought because the second part of the season was planned around the WCC TT (which he won, on a flat course vs tanks like Ganna, Tarling...) and not the Vuelta. Two quite different goals in the same timeframe.

The "problem" for Evenepoel is that he is not a one trick pony and he has different goals in his career, goals many of his GT rivals can't even dream of. So his focus as well as his preperation is much more scattered. You can't beat Ganna on a long flat course in the most important TT of the year, when you are on GT climbing weight. But people are free to ignore the obvious of course and take his bad performances at face value. After his first Giro, there were also plenty of idiots who didn't think he could climb or ever win a GT, so that's fine.

My man, take it easy. You were likely banned or on voluntary hiatus, but we discussed extensively in the Power Ranking thread the meaning of a power ranking, which is inherently at least somewhat a “what have you done for me lately” exercise. It seems like it would have been easier to just type your list rather than rage type everything you hate about mine.

• Remco won the 2022 Vuelta, but it’s 2024.
• As I said in that post and have said extensively, Remco is a phenomenal rider who I wouldn’t count out in any race, he has proven he can ride a GT, he’s a top 2 overall rider with Pogacar IMO, and I expect him to Perform well in the Tour and ascend to top 4, as I said in that post, but…this is a 2024 GT power ranking that reflects 2023 performances.
• Pogacar’s GT palmares are better than Roglic’s IMO because Tour is king but Roglic won the Giro and had a Vuelta podium win whereas Pogi had minutes put on him in a mountain stage for the second year in a row.
• G missed the Giro victory by 12 seconds last year.
• Kuss won the Vuelta last year, not 2022.
• Remco dropped out of the 2023 Giro before they even hit the mountains and Roglic had a bad crash on stage 13 requiring multiple stitches in his hip

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

When did Poggi pop? He came second twice. Far far ahead of everyone else.
Remco did pop and lost 27 minutes.

Granon in 2022 and the “I’m dead, I’m gone” stage in 2023, as someone said.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

My man, take it easy. You were likely banned or on voluntary hiatus, but we discussed extensively in the Power Ranking thread the meaning of a power ranking, which is inherently at least somewhat a “what have you done for me lately” exercise. It seems like it would have been easier to just type your list rather than rage type everything you hate about mine.

• Remco won the 2022 Vuelta, but it’s 2024.
• As I said in that post and have said extensively, Remco is a phenomenal rider who I wouldn’t count out in any race, he has proven he can ride a GT, he’s a top 2 overall rider with Pogacar IMO, and I expect him to Perform well in the Tour and ascend to top 4, as I said in that post, but…this is a 2024 GT power ranking that reflects 2023 performances.
• Pogacar’s GT palmares are better than Roglic’s IMO because Tour is king but Roglic won the Giro and had a Vuelta podium win whereas Pogi had minutes put on him in a mountain stage for the second year in a row.
• G missed the Giro victory by 12 seconds last year.
• Kuss won the Vuelta last year, not 2022.
• Remco dropped out of the 2023 Giro before they even hit the mountains and Roglic had a bad crash on stage 13 requiring multiple stitches in his hip

Second place in the Tour usually tops winning the Giro. Roglic won the Giro in spring 2023, but it's spring 2024 now... so why does that count for so much more than Evenepoel who won the Vuelta late '22? If it's "what have you done for me lately" and you ignore all other factors? Then Kuss should be #1 ahead of Vingegaard and Roglic.

 

[Froome]

I agree that we will see, but in my Power Ranking I put Vingegaard number one, then Roglic, then Pogacar. If I had to bet, Remco will ascend to 4 after the Tour but, as it stands, he did not ride well in the 2023 Vuelta and Pogacar popped spectacularly the last two GTs he did. Roglic might not reach the spectacular highs that Pogacar can, but I’ve never seen him pop like Pogi and Remco have in their recent GTs. His infamous 2020 ITT failure he still was top 5. Just my take.

I don't think it's a satirical ranking, even if i don't agree with some positions. It's a fair opinion.

In "my ranking" it would be Pogacar in second instead of Roglic, Remco evenepoel a bit above.

I put Pogacar in second because the level he had during the Tour de France was very superior to the level presented by the best in the Giro.

1- Vingegaard
2- Pogacar
3- Roglic
4- Evenepoel
5-Thomas
6- Kuss
7- adam yates
8- Mas
9- hindley
10-almeida

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

@Logic-is-your-friend Are you being willfully obtuse to generate an argument here? What makes you think I am ignoring all other factors? Remco wouldn’t be in the top 10 if that was the case. Of course context plays a role. Roglic also arguably would have won the Vuelta without team dynamics coming into play, as he was the strongest in the first half and stronger than anyone bar Vingegaard in the back half. I won’t be appalled if you or anyone puts Pogacar in the second position though. Go for it.