Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Berniece]

I think he’ll do better than Roglic but both won’t be close to Vinge.

I can only see Vingegaard take time in the last stage though

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I can only see Vingegaard take time in the last stage though

Stage 4 has potential.

 

[Berniece]

Stage 4 has potential.

True, Vingegaard can go all out on that climb and keep a gap until the finish

 

[witeken]

and likely not even close to (hopefully) his TDF weight

In conclusion, i think that if Visma want to know which numbers Evenepoel can potentially push, they'd be better off looking at data of the '22 Vuelta before his crash, because i don't think he has been riding at that level since.

In addition to not being at peak level yet and/because of no altitude (because his goal is July, which is 4 months off), couldn't his weight be one of those marginal gains that is being overlooked? Before the Giro 2021 he said he was at his sharpest ever at 59-60kg, now people seem to be discussing 63kg as his "optimal" GC weight (despite this 'evidence' he can go even lower). That 5% would be the difference between 6.5W/kg or 6.8W/kg -- world-class or world-leading (getting dropped by or following Vingegaard).

2020/21, 59-60kg: https://www.wielerflits.be/nieuws/r...ilo-lichter-ik-ben-dat-babyvet-nu-echt-kwijt/
2022, 63-64kg: https://www.demorgen.be/sport/stabi...el~bb43c982/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
Other source says 61.5kg: https://www.wielerkrant.be/nieuws/2...j-anderhalve-kilo-meer-weegt-dan-in-de-vuelta
2023 Giro, 63kg: https://www.hln.be/giro/waarom-even...ilogram-meer-weegt-dan-in-de-vuelta~a9efe34a/

In any case, peak Remco has already showed he can/should compete against both Pog/Vin: https://www.wielerflits.be/nieuws/p...venepoel-niet-ineens-favoriet-voor-de-vuelta/ https://lanternerouge.com/2023/07/1...r-in-week-3-tour-de-france-2023-stages-16-17/

 

[Netserk]

That 5% would be the difference between 6.5W/kg or 6.8W/kg -- world-class or world-leading (getting dropped by or following Vingegaard).

No, it wouldn't. He wouldn't be able to produce the same power when 60 kg.

 

[Red Rick]

Far be it from me to defend Soudal Quick Step trainers, but if it really were as easy as "just lose the weight bro" don't you think he would've done that already?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In addition to not being at peak level yet and/because of no altitude (because his goal is July, which is 4 months off), couldn't his weight be one of those marginal gains that is being overlooked? Before the Giro 2021 he said he was at his sharpest ever at 59-60kg, now people seem to be discussing 63kg as his "optimal" GC weight (despite this 'evidence' he can go even lower). That 5% would be the difference between 6.5W/kg or 6.8W/kg -- world-class or world-leading (getting dropped by or following Vingegaard).

2020/21, 59-60kg: https://www.wielerflits.be/nieuws/r...ilo-lichter-ik-ben-dat-babyvet-nu-echt-kwijt/
2022, 63-64kg: https://www.demorgen.be/sport/stabi...el~bb43c982/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
Other source says 61.5kg: https://www.wielerkrant.be/nieuws/2...j-anderhalve-kilo-meer-weegt-dan-in-de-vuelta
2023 Giro, 63kg: https://www.hln.be/giro/waarom-even...ilogram-meer-weegt-dan-in-de-vuelta~a9efe34a/

In any case, peak Remco has already showed he can/should compete against both Pog/Vin: https://www.wielerflits.be/nieuws/p...venepoel-niet-ineens-favoriet-voor-de-vuelta/ https://lanternerouge.com/2023/07/1...r-in-week-3-tour-de-france-2023-stages-16-17/

He was 61.5kg in the '22 Vuelta. They said all year that they were going to target 63kg, but after the Vuelta ( i think one day later, still in Spain) he did a video interview with Sammy Neirinck and he basically admitted it, since he lost 3kg since Liège, (which was then around 64kg, having started the year around 68kg (edit: misremembered) 66.5 kg in Valencia). You can also just see it in his face that he is clearly leaner at the Vuelta'22 than at the Giro'23. He also said after the Vuelta that they noticed he did not lose power at that weigth (61.5kg) so one has to wonder why on earth they would send him to the Giro carrying a large bottle of Coca Cola. Maybe against the cold/weather, i don't know. All i do know is that nobody at that team is making much sense. The story they tried to push was that he was lighter for the Vuelta, because the climbs were steeper and shorter, so that he could be heavier for the longer and less steep climbs for the Giro... like... what?

And obviously, these are not marginal gains. His Vuelta '22 before his crash, was the strongest he's ever been.

Far be it from me to defend Soudal Quick Step trainers, but if it really were as easy as "just lose the weight bro" don't you think he would've done that already?

But they did already do that, and it worked.

 

[Berniece]

But they did already do that, and it worked.

Yeah but there's a difference between 61.5kg and 59kg. I get that you don't just go lower and lower. I do expect him to weigh around 61.5kg again for the TDF though. We'll definitely see it in his face, and arms when he starts. Currently he clearly isn't at 61.5kg.

 

[Netserk]

The comparison should be between peak form at the respective weights, of course he didn't lose power while he build his form.

When he supposedly gained weight for the WCTT last year, surely that allowed him to push more watts than if he weighed 61 kg. Otherwise he wouldn't have gained that weight.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The comparison should be between peak form at the respective weights, of course he didn't lose power while he build his form.

When he supposedly gained weight for the WCTT last year, surely that allowed him to push more watts than if he weighed 61 kg. Otherwise he wouldn't have gained that weight.

And should Vingegaard become a weightlifter, i also assume he will become heavier. So he is also losing power at his current weight. More muscle is more power.
As long as those muscles and added weight don't start to work against you, it makes sense. But in a 3 week race with tens of thousands of altitude meters, the tip-over point is quickly reached.

Yeah but there's a difference between 61.5kg and 59kg. I get that you don't just go lower and lower. I do expect him to weigh around 61.5kg again for the TDF though. We'll definitely see it in his face, and arms when he starts. Currently he clearly isn't at 61.5kg.

The point is that they dismissed weighing 60 (Giro'21) based on him failing in that Giro. While the only conclusion they should have come to, was that it was an asinine idea to have him make his comeback after his Lombardia crash, in the Giro while going for GC to boot, with only 2 months of training after a serious injury, an impactful recovery and 9 months after his last race. Considering the circumstances, he did extremely well in that Giro before he crumbled.

 

[Netserk]

And should Vingegaard become a weightlifter, i also assume he will become heavier. So he is also losing power at his current weight. More muscle is more power.

Indeed. But it's a simple point some find hard to grasp.

At your most optimal climbing weight, marginal changes in weight sees changes in power proportional to average W/kg.

That 5% would be the difference between 6.5W/kg or 6.8W/kg -- world-class or world-leading (getting dropped by or following Vingegaard).

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Indeed. But it's a simple point some find hard to grasp.

At your most optimal climbing weight, marginal changes in weight sees changes in power proportional to average W/kg.

The issue is, that with Evenepoel there is evidence that weighing less than his '23 weight (Giro 63kg, Vuelta even more), is beneficial for his climbing performance as seen in the '22 Vuelta. And there is no evidence, that weighing less than that, has a negative impact, because the only time he did weigh less, was during the '21 Giro, which he failed at for many other reasons than his weight. So while it is possible that for him weighing 60 is too light, we simply don't know that.

As for your point, regarding w/kg, yes, obviously you will always lose power when you lose weight... unless the weight you lose is not muscle.

 

[Ripper]

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrremco needs a better GT trainer.

And likely a better DS in the car for GTs (but that could be said for many, so I am not sure if that is a game changer)

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrremco needs a better GT trainer.

And likely a better DS in the car for GTs (but that could be said for many, so I am not sure if that is a game changer)

This seems so obvious, but both Pelgrim (trainer) as Lodewyck (DS) seem to get all the credit in the world. Neither is experienced and both their biggest successes have been thanks to working with Evenepoel. Everything reeks of "making it up as we go" with a lot of trial and error.

 

[Salvarani]

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrremco needs a better GT trainer.

And likely a better DS in the car for GTs (but that could be said for many, so I am not sure if that is a game changer)

Everybody else need to do their job, like omg. They are just wasting him, if only everything was perfect he would win. Hope everyone gets their act together SOON. This just cant go on any longer.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Everybody else need to do their job, like omg. They are just wasting him, if only everything was perfect he would win. Hope everyone gets their act together SOON. This just cant go on any longer.

mou, that you?

 

[DNP-Old]

Wolf is being cried in here.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Weird how I have hundreds of them from you, while you are supposedly "ignoring" me. Funny how that works.

You cant say the same thing and thats the truth.

If you are not ignoring me, you will still be getting alerts in case i respond or react to your post. Take it up with administration.

 

[AmRacer]

If you are not ignoring me, you will still be getting alerts in case i respond or react to your post. Take it up with administration.

How can you respond to a post from someone on your ignore list?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

How can you respond to a post from someone on your ignore list?

Hit the "show ignore content" button on the lower right corner of the page. I hit it every once in a while when i feel i need context for a discussion is missing to see if that might be the reason. Or when i have gotten into a debate with one of the posters on my ignore list and expect a reply.

 

[AmRacer]

Hit the "show ignore content" button on the lower right corner of the page. I hit it every once in a while when i feel i need context for a discussion is missing to see if that might be the reason. Or when i have gotten into a debate with one of the posters on my ignore list and expect a reply.

How can you debate with someone on your ignor list?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

How can you debate with someone on your ignor list?

Hit the "show ignore content" button on the lower right corner of the page. Reply to post.

 

[AmRacer]

Hit the "show ignore content" button on the lower right corner of the page. Reply to post.

But why do you want to debate with someone on your ignore list?
When someone reply to their post, they become visible for you?

 

[AmRacer]

Exactly.

Then getting no response in return. Just keep doing it relentlessly with sly digs, not getting spoken back to at any point.

What do you call that?

I'm forbidden to post the answer.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But why do you want to debate with someone on your ignore list?
When someone reply to their post, they become visible for you?

I don't deal in absolutes. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day, so if i see something i feel i want to respond to, i will, which i am allowed to. Also sometimes you can both be in a discussion with multiple people. Meaning you need to read what others are responding to and there will be overlap either way.