Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Low is rhe new high]

Who already retired.


You can't point at Lipowitz because there is no point of reference. Even last year he already showed himself.

I haven't seen anything at all to suggest that Bora is making riders better from that perspective. Vlasov? Hindley? Roglic? Not seeing it. Maybe Roglic gets a pass since he came from Visma to begin with and isn't getting younger, but so far i am not seeing guys like Wellense or Campenaerts at their age suddenly becoming world beaters, at Bora.

All things considered, is that a sign of something being right or something being wrong? But as you previously stated with your list, there is room for a lot of improvement for Remco he will also have to go to a team with enough budget to keep a resilient team of super doms. RB and Ineos seems to be the only reasonable two options.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Remco showing up at the Bora HQ with his entourage

 

[theyoungest]

Look at UAE and Visma. Especially UAE. they are managing. Also Hindley and Vlasov have both not much to show last 2 years in terms of being able to demand pecking order. Roglic and Lipo are a different matter.

UAE aren't managing at all, you saw that in the Giro. When Pogacar is there it's pretty clear, no one comes close to Pogacar so no one is above him in the pecking order. But when he's not there it's a free for all.

When Evenepoel joins Red Bull he faces the problem of not being clearly better than Lipowitz or Roglic, as far as chances in a GT go. In fact I'd say at this moment he's slightly (or a lot) worse than them. He's no Pogacar, let's put it that way.

 

[Red Rick]

That's the takeaway from this thread? That Evenepoel doesn't need to prove himself?

Really?

The takeaway is that one rider is always cut slack for underperforming, while the other is not despite performing better this year. I may have my timelines wrong but the Vuelta of last year is more recent than the Tour of last year.

 

[red_flanders]

The takeaway is that one rider is always cut slack for underperforming, while the other is not despite performing better this year. I may have my timelines wrong but the Vuelta of last year is more recent than the Tour of last year.

Remco gets crucified every time he doesn't do amazing things. People saying he can't climb, he should only do classics, he shouldn't be a team leader for GC...on and on.

All subjective of course, but I can't see how anyone can participate in this thread and feel like people "cut slack" for Remco.

 

[bah]

UAE aren't managing at all, you saw that in the Giro. When Pogacar is there it's pretty clear, no one comes close to Pogacar so no one is above him in the pecking order. But when he's not there it's a free for all.

When Evenepoel joins Red Bull he faces the problem of not being clearly better than Lipowitz or Roglic, as far as chances in a GT go. In fact I'd say at this moment he's slightly (or a lot) worse than them. He's no Pogacar, let's put it that way.

As far as Roglic goes they are only likely to be in the same team for one year and if we take what Roglic was saying during the Tour at face value I don't think he'll be that bothered if he missed the TDF next year anyway.

 

[peterfin]

Remco gets crucified every time he doesn't do amazing things. People saying he can't climb, he should only do classics, he shouldn't be a team leader for GC...on and on.

All subjective of course, but I can't see how anyone can participate in this thread and feel like people "cut slack" for Remco.

I agree. If there is one guy scrutinized for every 'mistake' he makes it's Remco. It has its origin in his status as junior prodigee and the huge pressure of the Belgian press but it never really stopped now that he has proven a lot. Maybe it is because he has outspoken goals? Or simply because many just dislike him? Or is it because of the thread title here? I don't know. He is a guy with highs and lows, yes. He faces challenges. He had its crashes and his background that didn't prepare him as well for his career as others. He may not even be in the best team to become the best he can ever be. However, I wonder what needs to happen before people realize that he can climb or that he can win a GT if simple facts are not enough? It is as if he is back to zero everytime he hits a low, only to be disproven later when he hits a high.

 

[Berniece]

I agree. If there is one guy scrutinized for every 'mistake' he makes it's Remco. It has its origin in his status as junior prodigee and the huge pressure of the Belgian press but it never really stopped now that he has proven a lot. Maybe it is because he has outspoken goals? Or simply because many just dislike him? Or is it because of the thread title here? I don't know. He is a guy with highs and lows, yes. He faces challenges. He had its crashes and his background that didn't prepare him as well for his career as others. He may not even be in the best team to become the best he can ever be. However, I wonder what needs to happen before people realize that he can climb or that he can win a GT if simple facts are not enough? It is as if he is back to zero everytime he hits a low, only to be disproven later when he hits a high.

He basically needs to be as good as Pogacar to get everyone off his back. Odds are not in his favor.

 

[KoopaCycling]

UAE aren't managing at all, you saw that in the Giro. When Pogacar is there it's pretty clear, no one comes close to Pogacar so no one is above him in the pecking order. But when he's not there it's a free for all.

When Evenepoel joins Red Bull he faces the problem of not being clearly better than Lipowitz or Roglic, as far as chances in a GT go. In fact I'd say at this moment he's slightly (or a lot) worse than them. He's no Pogacar, let's put it that way.

Did not see much wrong in the Giro till the stage Simon yates won . Del Toro was unproven so they kept it close.
Only the Simon yates stage they in truth messed up.

I see your point overall though. When Pogacar isn't there it's a bit more chaos. Aside from McNulty i haven't seen anything to egregious and they ultimately fall in line behind the designated leaders. Also When Pogacar is there the pecking order is clear. Methinks it will be similar in red Bull. It will be Lipo-Remco, rest as helpers and Roglic as the wild card if he enters the Tour. But i doubt that. he'll probably ride either the Vuelta or the Giro.

In a way Lipo being there might help Remco. perhaps not on the road, but mentally. Team will not only focus on Remco. It may backfire as well. With Remco maybe having to deal with german media as well from now on whom will clearly favour Lipo.

In any case. Red Bull would only need to juggle Remco-Lipo-Roglic in truth. Whereas UAE needs to juggle Del Toro, Almeida, Ayuso, and probably in the future Torres as well for a spot as team leader behind Pogacar. Whilst also keeping McNulty, Yates and others happy.

 

[red_flanders]

Remco showing up at the Bora HQ with his entourage

Strong "Vera" vibes from Mr. Robot...

 

[AlpRaid]

Speaking of remco he might have been better off riding the vuelta this year. Start with San Sebastian, Vuelta, WC, EC, Lombardia. But that's hindsight. Hopefully he will learn from this year.

he will never have the base this year to compete in a GT.

best to stick to one day races.

 

[AlpRaid]

Remco has an ultra competitive spirit, extremely so. Being Belgian, the media pressure is also on his shoulders, often unwarranted and not justified based on his results. But still, it’s there.

I'm talking about the Tour here. Remco has shared what his dream and biggest goal is. And knowing how fiercely competitive he is, he won’t accept being number two in the team long-term in that aspect, a edition if hes off sure he will,long term no, that dont fit his personality at all. So he better step up, sink or swim, eat or get eaten.

and yet he has proven over and over again to be an exemplary teammate.

quite remarkable in someone so -- yes, indeed -- competitive. but that is (for me at least) part of his charm -- unlike other top sports personalities.

 

[red_flanders]

However the GT leadership shakes out, and I think fairly obviously it will shake out on the road...

...it's gonna be one heck of a stacked team, finally able from a talent perspective to be considered in the same breath with UAE and Visma. Sure, it's likely that the strongest guy (Pogi) is gonna win no matter what the teams do, but at least Remco/Lipo/Roglic will be on a team with options, support, and a GT focus.

New management...could unlock a team that's already full of super strong guys. We shall see.

 

[KoopaCycling]

he will never have the base this year to compete in a GT.

best to stick to one day races.

I meant after the crash. Obviously it's too late now. Instead of rushing back for spring, and then trying to get ready for the Tour. It would probably been better to start your season in San Sebastian. But hindsight makes things easy.

 

[acm]

No, perhaps more importantly they also poached the nutrition expert Asker Jeukendrup, who came into a conflict of interest since he already worked as a consultant for Red Bull the brand before Red Bull joined a cycling team.

But he didn't come with Roglič. That was more than half a year after Primož joined Bora...

 

[AlpRaid]

I meant after the crash. Obviously it's too late now. Instead of rushing back for spring, and then trying to get ready for the Tour. It would probably been better to start your season in San Sebastian. But hindsight makes things easy.

Yes. Apologies. I kind of misinterpreted your post.

Main thing he should have been “listening to his body” well before he finally did after three straight bad days in the TDF. Clearly his body was telling him how it felt well before then. As others have said here, he needs to take that responsibility himself first, but it would help also if he ends up having fewer yes-men at Bora. Here’s hoping…

 

[jmdirt]

Remco gets crucified every time he doesn't do amazing things. People saying he can't climb, he should only do classics, he shouldn't be a team leader for GC...on and on.

All subjective of course, but I can't see how anyone can participate in this thread and feel like people "cut slack" for Remco.

I'm a big fan of RE's but I also criticize things that IMO he could do to improve (like staying near his racing weight year round).

IMO too many people had too high expectations for him this year based on his winter/spring. So did I cut him slack? Only if having realistic expectations is cutting slack.

Is there a thread in the pro racing forum that doesn't crucify the topic?

 

[2WpK]

I feel a bit behind here. Has it been definitively confirmed that Remco is going to RB? If so, when?

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I feel a bit behind here. Has it been definitively confirmed that Remco is going to RB? If so, when?

Don't think it's official yet, but everyone is saying that it will happen, so it is assumed it will happen. Would be funny if now it doesn't. Not long till August, then we'll know.

 

[jmdirt]

Don't think it's official yet, but everyone is saying that it will happen, so it is assumed it will happen. Would be funny if now it doesn't. Not long till August, then we'll know.

I always feel that way when 'information' is 'leaked' and it turns out to be false!

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

It's pretty obvious they're not satisfied, given their actions. I'm not saying it was realistic to expect more, but they clearly didn't spend all that money to win the Vuelta and Catalunya. They wanted to challenge at the Tour... which they actually did, but not with Roglic.

That is being extremely generous. Lipo finished 11 minutes back and was dropped at will…

crazy how times have changed. When Roglic was just entering the scene, he was 4th in 2018, 3:22 back. When Contador went kamikaze in 2011 after some crashes and in poor form after the Giro, he was destroyed…3:57 back. Even in 2015 when Contador couldn’t get anyone to do the 3 GT challenge and had that brutal Giro then some crashes and was no where close, he was 5th at under 15 minutes. In 2021, Pogacars second victory, Ben O’Connor finished 10 minutes back…I digress.

Dude, i got ganged-up on in 2022 when i DARED to say Evenepoel was a bigger TT talent than Küng (because you know, in 2021 Evenepoel didn't have his best year, coming back from his crash so wtf was i thinking). According to half the forum, Evenepoel can't climb... every time he does a poor climb. The fact that he is breaking records on another day is quickly forgotten in order to go into mock-mode.

The difference is in what people expect. Roglic will need to prove himself every year, because he is already 36 and the only thing he excels at, are GC's. That conversation was completely different in 2019-2020 when everybody assumed Roglic was going to win the Tour multiple times, so your comparison is crooked. Unlike Evenepoel, Roglic is not a generational talent, in a sense that at his peak in his best year, he could never do the things Evenepoel already did at the age of 22-24. I am not talking about just GC's, i am talking about everything. Even the biggest trolls know it (though they might not admit it) that Evenepoel is a bigger talent and we have all seen what he is capable of when he is "on". The problem is staying healthy and managing his weight so that he can start races at 100%. And he doesn't have the expertise behind him that riders at Visma or UAE have. So it's not surprising people are simply waiting for the guy who already showed he can take the world by storm, to put all the pieces together.

The question is whether it will ever happen, because if he is indeed taking Lodewyck with him to Bora, then he is still clueless himself. Lodewyck is one of the people who has been holding him back, his biggest enabler in all the wrong decisions he makes and a huge airhead when it comes to race tactics. I don't mean that bringing him in as a DS is what will hinder Evenepoel, but the fact that he still hasn't figured it out, doesn't bode well.

If Evenepoel really wants to improve and untap the full extent of his potential, he needs to:

• work on his bikehandling (it will save him of a few crashes)
• work on his cornering (idem + will make him more dominant in TT's, help in GC stages in the mountains)
• work on his positioning (culmination incl. bikehandling and cornering + will save him a lot of energy)
• get rid of yes-men enablers
• keep his weight down (examples show he does not need to weigh more in order to dominate TT's or classics)
• get a performance/medical team behind him on par with Visma/UAE (so Bora has work to do)

Those first 4 to 5 points is where Quickstep completely failed in developing him.

I agree Roglic, despite being an Olympic gold
Medalist in the ITT and with many ITT wins, is not the ITT talent that Remco is. And Remco had some big LBL and Worlds victories without Pogacar. I’m not sure I agree with this sweeping statement, though. Let’s see if Remco gets to 5 GTs. I’d also say that Roglic IS a generational talent given that he started racing a few years later in life than Remco joined the WT, and he still reached the pinnacle.

 

[Berniece]

I feel a bit behind here. Has it been definitively confirmed that Remco is going to RB? If so, when?

Plans are to announce it the first week of August

 

[theyoungest]

Did not see much wrong in the Giro till the stage Simon yates won . Del Toro was unproven so they kept it close.
Only the Simon yates stage they in truth messed up.

Not much wrong, other than the fact that without their help Yates wouldn't have won the Giro... The Vuelta 2023 is another example where UAE tactics without Pogi in the race were on full display (and Visma ended up with three guys on the podium).

If you have a Tour team of Evenepoel, Roglic, and Lipowitz, what is your strategy? Or is Roglic giving up on his Tour dream and only racing Giros and Vueltas from now on.

 

[bah]

Not much wrong, other than the fact that without their help Yates wouldn't have won the Giro... The Vuelta 2023 is another example where UAE tactics without Pogi in the race were on full display (and Visma ended up with three guys on the podium).

If you have a Tour team of Evenepoel, Roglic, and Lipowitz, what is your strategy? Or is Roglic giving up on his Tour dream and only racing Giros and Vueltas from now on.

"From now on"? He'll be 36 in 3 months. There's every chance he will retire once his contract is up at the end of next year.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Not much wrong, other than the fact that without their help Yates wouldn't have won the Giro... The Vuelta 2023 is another example where UAE tactics without Pogi in the race were on full display (and Visma ended up with three guys on the podium).

If you have a Tour team of Evenepoel, Roglic, and Lipowitz, what is your strategy? Or is Roglic giving up on his Tour dream and only racing Giros and Vueltas from now on.

UAE Del Toro mistake on the stage that lost them the Giro had nothing to do with multiple team leaders though.
They just told Del Toro to focus on Carapaz who did so to a fault, They failed to make del Toro realize the danger in time, and switch to working with Carapaz.

I'm not sure what you mean by Vuelta 2023. The moment Remco cracked that Vuelta was over and won by Visma. Either Vingegaard, Roglic too strong. Sure media hyped up Ayuso to keep things interesting but in reality he never stood a chance of upending either of those 2.