Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Karl Merckx]

Anyone knows where you can watch the ToB outside of the UK ?

 

[red_flanders]

Can we rename this to the "How Remco Evenepoel makes me feel about my Favorite Rider" thread?

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is such a ridiculous take🤣🤣
It’s the “Remco can’t climb”, “Remco has never shown he can climb” and “Remco isn’t a GC rider” that some can’t tolerate.

It’s not the “people calling him unreliable” that causes discussions, because even the people that are seen as the biggest Remco fans in this thread are regularly criticizing him for his inconsistency (and his weight, which likely is a huge factor in the inconsistency).

No, it's not. There are many posts here about Remco being the third best GT rider, others saying he is on the same level of Pogacar in classics. But I don't want to start a discussion about this. I already know you don't agree with me.

 

[Peyroteo94]

They were both dominant at junior level. You hate Pidders it seems.
What predictions? I’ve said Remco is capable of the giro and should target it, I’ve said that several times. What’s ridiculous there?

You call this era weak however you say Pidcock is a future GT winner. OMG.

 

[Charlyghoul]

You call this era weak however you say Pidcock is a future GT winner. OMG.

It is weak, outside of the top two it’s awful.
Ineos thought Pidcock had gt potential.
He clearly is a class bike rider, he’s finished 13th in the tour while being a part time road racer. If he really wanted to he could be getting close to podium a grand tour. Do you not think so?
He’s probably the most versatile bike rider in the world. Including your darling Pogacar.
He prefers mtb, I guess that’s how it is.

Put it this way, in terms of likelihood :
Remco winning a tour > Pidcock winning a grand tour > your darling poggles getting anywhere close to goat palmares

 

[AlpRaid]

Has he ever dedicated 2 seasons for pure GT prep?

good post.

I really think we have only very few moments in Remco's career when he was at his healthy and competitive best.

2020 (pre-Lombardia): he won everything he competed in. Sure, it was not the top week-long stage races. But he was only 20, it was Covid, and he beat top competition.

2022 San Sebastián-Worlds

2023 LBL-start of Giro (before Covid, looked a lot like 2022 Vuelta, only better)

2024 Olympics (no, not the TDF, when he had an incredibly rushed prep for a 3-week stage race)

He needs to remain healthy for a while now -- sure, a couple of crashes where he is largely uninjured, hard to escape at least that -- but long stretches of health and uninterrupted prep.

I am also concerned that the amount of times his body has been rebuilt may ultimately be something he will never fully come back from.

Lemond was never as good as he was in 1986. Perhaps at the start of the 1991 TDF, but he was beaten by things beyond his control.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

No, it's not. There are many posts here about Remco being the third best GT rider,

And it’s superstrange if anyone find that offensive or completely disconnected from the real world as he was, you know, actually third in the Tour last year.

 

[AmRacer]

And it’s superstrange if anyone find that offensive or completely disconnected from the real world as he was, you know, actually third in the Tour last year.

That was last year, Lippo is the third best GT rider this year.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

That was last year, Lippo is the third best GT rider this year.

Yes that is a fair opinion.
But it’s also a not surreal opinion to believe that Remco in the 2024 Tour was better than Lipo in 2025 Tour. It’s very hard to compare and definitively say one is better than the other.

The point is: Peyreto is making big fuss about some people saying Remco is the third best, while he doesn’t care about people posting things like “Remco can’t climb” and “Remco is not a GC rider”. It’s very obvious what’s furthest away from the objective truth.

 

[Extinction]

This is such a ridiculous take🤣🤣
It’s the “Remco can’t climb”, “Remco has never shown he can climb” and “Remco isn’t a GC rider” that some can’t tolerate.

It’s not the “people calling him unreliable” that causes discussions, because even the people that are seen as the biggest Remco fans in this thread are regularly criticizing him for his inconsistency (and his weight, which likely is a huge factor in the inconsistency).

Perhaps the bigest shortcoming for Remco was tuning pro without a premier mountains stage race to assess his high mountains climbing, like Avenier. And then signing long term with Quick Step. He perhaps needed another parameter, other than destroying juniors and a foreign super GT team to assess his potential. He still has time at Bora, but the clock is ticking.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes that is a fair opinion.
But it’s also a not surreal opinion to believe that Remco in the 2024 Tour was better than Lipo in 2025 Tour. It’s very hard to compare and definitively say one is better than the other.

The point is: Peyreto is making big fuss about some people saying Remco is the third best, while he doesn’t care about people posting things like “Remco can’t climb” and “Remco is not a GC rider”. It’s very obvious what’s furthest away from the objective truth.

That's not true. I already told many times he is a GC rider, not remotely close to his level in hilly classics and specially TTs and this is due to lack of consistency in the mountains. He is unreliable in the high mountains.
And to be honest, I don't actually mind that much when people say he is the 3rd best GT rider (right now, he isn't for sure IMO) but if someone has a different opinion,it's also realistic to think that way. But when someone says he is a future TdF winner because he was amazing in the TdF 2024, l lose my head frankly. There is zero evidence he can win the Tour, specially when he loses 2 minutes to Pogacar in every big MTF. Even for Vingegaard, he is not close and when those who claim he will win the TdF, I just think "In what scenario can he win the Tour when he is racing against two way better climbers?"
In hilly classics, under the right circunstances, he will beat Pogacar occasionally but when Pogacar doesn't make mistakes, there is no chance for him. This is what I have been watching in the last 2 years. Can this change? Maybe in classics, no in GTs. He will be coached by Dan Lorang. One of the best!

 

[Peyroteo94]

And it’s superstrange if anyone find that offensive or completely disconnected from the real world as he was, you know, actually third in the Tour last year.

Like I said, you can't live in the past. Maybe in the last year, he was, not this year. But again, saying he will win the Tour is what bothers me the most

 

[red_flanders]

Yes that is a fair opinion.
But it’s also a not surreal opinion to believe that Remco in the 2024 Tour was better than Lipo in 2025 Tour. It’s very hard to compare and definitively say one is better than the other.

The point is: Peyreto is making big fuss about some people saying Remco is the third best, while he doesn’t care about people posting things like “Remco can’t climb” and “Remco is not a GC rider”. It’s very obvious what’s furthest away from the objective truth.

With ya. To add...

Bora has all the training numbers for each rider next year. They train with them every day. They'll know who is the stronger rider. We've heard from team managers (Vaughters, I know, it's not a great source) that they have access to the training and performance numbers of any rider they sign, before the contracts are done. So they probably know most of it now, yes? On a fairly sophisticated level it's fair to assume, over a variety of terrain and efforts and peaks? So they know. They also know something about the respective mentality and makeup of the 2 riders.

How much did they pay him? How long have they been after him? And how did they talk about Remco when they signed him? As a guy who would transform the team and raise the level. OK, we'll grant some of that is (or may be) justification for the bill they just paid. But do you say that if you don't plan to lead with Remco over Lipo in the races that matter? Maybe. Tend to doubt it. I'll call it "some evidence" of how they think the riders compare.

We'll know this year, barring injury or major illness, from how Bora handles and talks about the roles of the riders.

EDIT: And then people will call Bora idiots for unfairly favoring one rider or another for no reason.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

That's not true. I already told many times he is a GC rider

You have to read what I say. I never said YOU said these things. What I said is that I find it ridiculous that you are constantly in this thread ridiculing the people that defends Remco against those posters who posts things like “Remco can’t climb” and “Remco isn’t a GC rider”, instead of ridiculing the people that write these things that are clearly furthest away from the reality.

Like I said, you can't live in the past. Maybe in the last year, he was, not this year. But again, saying he will win the Tour is what bothers me the most

This is a great example of what I think is ridiculous. That these predictions of the future bothers you more than the absolute insane takes of things that have been proven in the past (ability to climb and ride GC) is hard to understand. Even if some guy said “Remco will beat Pog in the Tour next year”, that is a less stupid take than “Remco is no GC rider”. Because the first can possibly happen and the latter is already proven wrong.

 

[Charlyghoul]

That's not true. I already told many times he is a GC rider, not remotely close to his level in hilly classics and specially TTs and this is due to lack of consistency in the mountains. He is unreliable in the high mountains.
And to be honest, I don't actually mind that much when people say he is the 3rd best GT rider (right now, he isn't for sure IMO) but if someone has a different opinion,it's also realistic to think that way. But when someone says he is a future TdF winner because he was amazing in the TdF 2024, l lose my head frankly. There is zero evidence he can win the Tour, specially when he loses 2 minutes to Pogacar in every big MTF. Even for Vingegaard, he is not close and when those who claim he will win the TdF, I just think "In what scenario can he win the Tour when he is racing against two way better climbers?"
In hilly classics, under the right circunstances, he will beat Pogacar occasionally but when Pogacar doesn't make mistakes, there is no chance for him. This is what I have been watching in the last 2 years. Can this change? Maybe in classics, no in GTs. He will be coached by Dan Lorang. One of the best!

I don’t wish to antogonise, but your rationale here is interesting.
You say you lose your head over Remco being called the third best tour rider ( debatable)
But you go on about Pogacar as the goat, this is a guy who cracked spectacularly twice in his prime, allowing his rival to win.
This never happened before to a multiple tour winner.

 

[peterfin]

In hilly classics, under the right circunstances, he will beat Pogacar occasionally but when Pogacar doesn't make mistakes, there is no chance for him. This is what I have been watching in the last 2 years. Can this change? Maybe in classics, no in GTs. He will be coached by Dan Lorang. One of the best!

You may be right but what makes you 100% certain? Pogacar's giant progress since 2024 was not something we could foresee (unless you are the prophet called "mou"). What makes you certain the Remco can't make a leap too, knowing that he may have room to do so on levels beyond pure climbing abilities (handling, heat/cold mgmt, team support etc), and that Pogacar can keep this insane level year after year?

 

[Peyroteo94]

You have to read what I say. I never said YOU said these things. What I said is that I find it ridiculous that you are constantly in this thread ridiculing the people that defends Remco against those posters who posts things like “Remco can’t climb” and “Remco isn’t a GC rider”, instead of ridiculing the people that write these things that are clearly furthest away from the reality.


This is a great example of what I think is ridiculous. That these predictions of the future bothers you more than the absolute insane takes of things that have been proven in the past (ability to climb and ride GC) is hard to understand. Even if some guy said “Remco will beat Pog in the Tour next year”, that is a less stupid take than “Remco is no GC rider”. Because the first can possibly happen and the latter is already proven wrong.

I agree with you. I will change my "behaviour" towards Remco diehard fans. But it is not true I come here just to "bash" those fans. You can see here what I posted about that guy who was comparing Cunego with Remco or even comparing Pidcock with Remco. It is also true you only "see" when I write something not good about Remco.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

It is also true you only "see" when I write something not good about Remco.

I usually dont post “I agree” to every post I agree with.

 

[Peyroteo94]

You may be right but what makes you 100% certain? Pogacar's giant progress since 2024 was not something we could foresee (unless you are the prophet called "mou"). What makes you certain the Remco can't make a leap too, knowing that he may have room to do so on levels beyond pure climbing abilities (handling, heat/cold mgmt, team support etc), and that Pogacar can keep this insane level year after year?

Even if Remco makes a giant leap, he will not be as good as Pogacar for example. The gap is massive.
It is way more probable to see Del Toro as a better climber than Remco next year IMO.
Other thing very obvious is how Remco is not as natural as Pogacar or Vingegaard in the mountains. It's so obvious but this is what bothers me the most, you guys (Remco diehard fans) cannot see this. It's so blatantly obvious! Both Vingegaard and Pogacar can win a mountain stage after being on vacations, Remco would probably lose 2 minutes in a mountain stage for 2nd tier climbers. However, Remco can be on vacations for 3 weeks without training and you give him a TT bike and he will win a flat TT. This is the difference. He is not naturally built to climb like Pogacar or Vingegaard. This is why he can't beat them in the TdF.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Other thing very obvious is how Remco is not as natural as Pogacar or Vingegaard in the mountains.

Why is that relevant? If Remco is to win or podium a GT he needs to be prepared, everyone agrees about that? I don’t think anyone has ever claimed Remco to be a natural climber like Jonas either.

It's so obvious but this is what bothers me the most, you guys (Remco diehard fans) cannot see this. It's so blatantly obvious!

Who doesn’t see this? Why do you think there have been so much talk about his weight and complaints against QS for not knowing what weight he needs to be at when entering a GT?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Why is that relevant? If Remco is to win or podium a GT he needs to be prepared, everyone agrees about that? I don’t think anyone has ever claimed Remco to be a natural climber like Jonas either.

Who doesn’t see this? Why do you think there have been so much talk about his weight and complaints against QS for not knowing what weight he needs to be at when entering a GT?

But do you think this is a weight problem? He was lighter this year (according him).

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

But do you think this is a weight problem? He was lighter this year (according him).

I believe it’s two main factors, watt and weight. This year his weight was probably good, but his ability to produce watt was bad, probably because of the postman crash and lack of base work in the winter.
Last year his watt was good and his weight was good. Giro 2023 his weight was likely too high (but because Covid we didn’t get to see it) and in Giro 2021 his weight was likely too low (and combined with less base he wasn’t close to keep the watts during the entire Giro).

Then of course one shouldn’t underestimate the mental factor. To me it seems like he’s a person that mentally doubles the effect of his form. When his form (watt and weight) is good, his confidence is great and it makes him ride at his absolute best. When his form is bad his mental state makes him ride with lower than what he should be able to push.

 

[Cycling111]

That's not true. I already told many times he is a GC rider, not remotely close to his level in hilly classics and specially TTs and this is due to lack of consistency in the mountains. He is unreliable in the high mountains.
And to be honest, I don't actually mind that much when people say he is the 3rd best GT rider (right now, he isn't for sure IMO) but if someone has a different opinion,it's also realistic to think that way. But when someone says he is a future TdF winner because he was amazing in the TdF 2024, l lose my head frankly. There is zero evidence he can win the Tour, specially when he loses 2 minutes to Pogacar in every big MTF. Even for Vingegaard, he is not close and when those who claim he will win the TdF, I just think "In what scenario can he win the Tour when he is racing against two way better climbers?"
In hilly classics, under the right circunstances, he will beat Pogacar occasionally but when Pogacar doesn't make mistakes, there is no chance for him. This is what I have been watching in the last 2 years. Can this change? Maybe in classics, no in GTs. He will be coached by Dan Lorang. One of the best!

The Tour is usually a race of two favorites, if not just one. Third place doesn't guarantee anything. Historically, third place has been a spectator.

Furthermore, Remco isn't Lipowitz, who's just starting out. He debuted the same year as Pogacar and Vingegaard, so he's a rider of his era, not one who can look too far ahead to when the others retire. We don't know who will retire first, and the years of competition are the same for now.

I agree with what you say. His climbing level isn't at all consistent. He's only been consistent in one Tour (Pogacar hsas 0 DNF in GT), and after focusing on that. Any setback and it's not even a sure thing that he'll get a podium finish. So, it's very difficult to guarantee that he'll win a Tour. Chances are he won't, barring an exceptional situation like Nibali. And even Nibali showed a bit more consistency in a race like the Giro.

Remco, in GT, reminds me of Valverde. The best GT for him is the Vuelta, due to its easy route and less mountain. Valverde was never a favorite in the Giro, and neither was he in the Tour. He made the podium once, but he was never a contender for victory.
I don't even see Ayuso winning a Tour, and in the mountains at least he performs better in one-week races´ mountain.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I believe it’s two main factors, watt and weight. This year his weight was probably good, but his ability to produce watt was bad, probably because of the postman crash and lack of base work in the winter.
Last year his watt was good and his weight was good. Giro 2023 his weight was likely too high (but because Covid we didn’t get to see it) and in Giro 2021 his weight was likely too low (and combined with less base he wasn’t close to keep the watts during the entire Giro).

Then of course one shouldn’t underestimate the mental factor. To me it seems like he’s a person that mentally doubles the effect of his form. When his form (watt and weight) is good, his confidence is great and it makes him ride at his absolute best. When his form is bad his mental state makes him ride with lower than what he should be able to push.

He had 5 months to prepare the Tour. Vingegaard lost kilos of muscle mass and still made 2nd in the Tour with less than 2 months preparation

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

He had 5 months to prepare the Tour. Vingegaard lost kilos of muscle mass and still made 2nd in the Tour with less than 2 months preparation

Last year Remco got 3rd in the Tour with very similar preparations as Vingegaard as they both had a very bad crash in the same corner on the same day.

This year Remco had a worse crash than last year, but 4 months earlier. And yet he was so much worse at the Tour this year. If it’s not the lack of base from the winter, what is the reason for it going wrong this year according to you?