Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Cycling111]

Remco looked good today but i haven't seen anything that i haven't seen in the fall of last year yet. Better than the opponents overall. (flat, climbs, descend combined) but have not noticed a climbing performance increase. Still take Pogacar away and he can beat anyone in the Ardennes & Lombardia that's for sure.

He did work hard today, dug deep doing a lot of work for a 'minor' victory. then again, not like that work will have a negative effect on his primary goals methinks. Hopefully it will do the opposite and bring him dividents.

Do you see him as a favorite in FW? (without Pogacar)

 

[KoopaCycling]

Do you see him as a favorite in FW? (without Pogacar)

Not as the main favourite, but he's not without a chance. There are more explosive riders, but timing and prolonged effort are often key as well. Plus maybe Red bull and remco can tweak the known formula of waiting for the final wall.

I know Amstel ain't Ardennes but i do count it amongst those later spring classics. (Amstel, FW, LBL) So that's 2 outta 3 and an outsider shot at the third without Pogacar imo.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Reducing it to 1v1 and hoping Pogacar drops out if pretty much the only hope anyone has at this point. Also, Remco taking minutes on Pogacar in one stage is such a delusional take I won't even address it

Nah, that ain't his only hope, you just wanna make it sound like that cause those tactics are in Pogacar favour.
Keeping things messy can always bring out unexpected results. I'd never have taken Kuss or Pereiro as GT winners, but here we are. I also never expected Sastre to win the tour or Yates to win the Giro in the manner that they did. It's not cause US Postal under Armstrong, and UAE under Pogacar have went out of their way to reduce the chaos and simplify the race that it will always go that way.

Even if nothing happens to Pogacar but an illness sweeps through his team, he won't be able to control every stage unless he makes allies. If instead his rivals unite to burn him up even he should have his limits. At which point every stage, not just the mountain stages can become GC battles. If instead Jonas helps Pogacar out by making it a simple 1 vs 1 he can still write another Tour under his name. That ain't so certain if Visma plays it smart.

You not wanting to adress my previous point, is just you missing the point of why a chaotic race can actually benefit his rivals instead of his rivals helping Pogacar simplify the race. Once the race is simplified Pogacar will probably win 99% of the time. if it ain't simplified and there is chaos, that number i pulled out of my hat i'm convinced drops.

 

[Cycling111]

Although you compare Pogacar to US Postal, a tasteless comparison (Then don't get angry at other, less offensive comments), Pogacar is a rider who handles himself quite well on his own. In 2020, he won the Tour de France single-handedly; his team was terrible. He doesn't have the strongest national team and wins, and the Classics against MVDP in recent years have given him a lot of experience in handling certain situations.

You talk about cooperation as if Vingegaard weren't interested in eliminating Remco. They're not on the same team, and Lipowitz isn't a false contender, as he believed with Roglic in 2022.

Pogacar isn't the same rider either; aside from his physical condition, he's improved a lot with experience.

Pereiro won the Tour due to a disqualification, and Kuss because the three strongest riders were on the same team.
The other ridess you mentioned simply didn't beat someone aiming for a fifth Tour victory.

Vingegaard isn't Remo's ally. Remco's primary goal is to equal Vingegaard; they're rivals in the Tour.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Although you compare Pogacar to US Postal, a tasteless comparison (Then don't get angry at other, less offensive comments), Pogacar is a rider who handles himself quite well on his own. In 2020, he won the Tour de France single-handedly; his team was terrible. He doesn't have the strongest national team and wins, and the Classics against MVDP in recent years have given him a lot of experience in handling certain situations.

You talk about cooperation as if Vingegaard weren't interested in eliminating Remco. They're not on the same team, and Lipowitz isn't a false contender, as he believed with Roglic in 2022.

Pogacar isn't the same rider either; aside from his physical condition, he's improved a lot with experience.

Pereiro won the Tour due to a disqualification, and Kuss because the three strongest riders were on the same team.
The other ridess you mentioned simply didn't beat someone aiming for a fifth Tour victory.

Vingegaard isn't Remo's ally. Remco's primary goal is to equal Vingegaard; they're rivals in the Tour.

Jumbo thought it was in the bag, as did the rest of the world and did not see Pogacar as the threat he was. It ain't a tasteless comparison. Both UAE and US Postal are/were designed to streamline and simplify the Tour.[content deleted]

I talk about what would be the best tactics for Vingegaard, not what he wants to do. I'm definitely not talking about what would be the best tactics for Jonas to help Pogacar win. Which i feel is what making it a 1vs 1 again is. That's just Visma helping Pogacar. If Jonas does not care about anything else but winning he should consider gambling at this point.

Kuss was given time cause Soudal could not respond to every Visma domestique not named Vingegaard and Roglic. And the rest of the peloton chose not to help Soudal control the race. Pereiro won cause they did not saw him as a threat and allowed him time whilst looking at each other. In both cases some chaos was involved.

Sastre and Yates won cause the main contenders were also to busy looking at each other. Chaos thus indeed proves helpful to make someone not expected win a race.

Vingegaard isn't Remco ally, but their teams and themselves should ride to a certain extent as allies to bring down Pogacar. In any case your moving the goalposts, you are making it about intent of Jonas now. Not which tactics would benefit Jonas most if all he cares about is the win.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Jumbo thought it was in the bag, as did the rest of the world and did not see Pogacar as the threat he was. It ain't a tasteless comparison. Both UAE and US Postal are/were designed to streamline and simplify the Tour. [deleted content]

I talk about what would be the best tactics for Vingegaard, not what he wants to do. I'm definitely not talking about what would be the best tactics for Jonas to help Pogacar win. Which i feel is what making it a 1vs 1 again is. That's just Visma helping Pogacar. If Jonas does not care about anything else but winning he should consider gambling at this point.

Kuss was given time cause Soudal could not respond to every Visma domestique not named Vingegaard and Roglic. And the rest of the peloton chose not to help Soudal control the race. Pereiro won cause they did not saw him as a threat and allowed him time whilst looking at each other. In both cases some chaos was involved.

Sastre and Yates won cause the main contenders were also to busy looking at each other. Chaos thus indeed proves helpful to make someone not expected win a race.

Vingegaard isn't Remco ally, but their teams and themselves should ride to a certain extent as allies to bring down Pogacar. In any case your moving the goalposts, you are making it about intent of Jonas now. Not which tactics would benefit Jonas most if all he cares about is the win.

At this point, the only reasonable way I see anyone else winning, regardless of tactics or working together, is if Pogacar has to abandon. In which case you HAVE to be 2nd. It doesn't help you at all if he drops out and you're beaten by someone else because you're still losing the Tour. I'm not saying you should always work with him, but in the aforementioned situation (Tourmalet attack and only Jonas can follow) I think he should. Because you can lose at most 4s and if you wait for the group it's more likely you lose more, plus you reduce your chances of being 2nd (1st if anything happens to Pogacar) by not taking time when you could

 

[KoopaCycling]

Not sure where to post this but there are some interesting youngsters this year who might surprise the established order.

Del Toro, Seixas, Widar, Nys. I'm very curious how they'll stack up this year against Remco, Jonas, Tadej.

 

[AmRacer]

Not sure where to post this but there are some interesting youngsters this year who might surprise the established order.

Del Toro, Seixas, Widar, Nys. I'm very curious how they'll stack up this year against Remco, Jonas, Tadej.

In one day races, not a chance
In stage races, not a chance

 

[Berniece]

Not sure where to post this but there are some interesting youngsters this year who might surprise the established order.

Del Toro, Seixas, Widar, Nys. I'm very curious how they'll stack up this year against Remco, Jonas, Tadej.

Don’t think any one of them will challenge the established order. Maybe Del Toro, but doubt it

 

[Berniece]

Was looking at the route of Valencia again, he should win this 99 out of 100 times. Sure the opposition is better, but the route barely gives anyone a chance in dropping Evenepoel.

He takes 20-30s in the ITT at stage 2, then stage 3 the climb is too shallow so with a decent team they just control that stage, and then maybe in stage 4 on the steep sections. But those are short and then you need to be able to not let him chase you down afterwards… the best rouleur in the world.

And all of that is with the idea that for some reason he can’t climb properly. He might take 2 stages and the GC. Starts the season with 6 wins

 

[KoopaCycling]

I expect quite a bit of them myself in one day races. and from some of them in 1 week stage races as well.
(@upcoming youngsters)

(@last point above this one)
As posted in the mallorca challenge thread, i think the level of racers is underrated, lots of young talent was present.
For Valenciana, much will depend on Almeida's form.

 

[AmRacer]

Was looking at the route of Valencia again, he should win this 99 out of 100 times. Sure the opposition is better, but the route barely gives anyone a chance in dropping Evenepoel.

He takes 20-30s in the ITT at stage 2, then stage 3 the climb is too shallow so with a decent team they just control that stage, and then maybe in stage 4 on the steep sections. But those are short and then you need to be able to not let him chase you down afterwards… the best rouleur in the world.

And all of that is with the idea that for some reason he can’t climb properly. He might take 2 stages and the GC. Starts the season with 6 wins

Good for Remco beginning the year with new team winning many world tour races.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Was looking at the route of Valencia again, he should win this 99 out of 100 times. Sure the opposition is better, but the route barely gives anyone a chance in dropping Evenepoel.

He takes 20-30s in the ITT at stage 2, then stage 3 the climb is too shallow so with a decent team they just control that stage, and then maybe in stage 4 on the steep sections. But those are short and then you need to be able to not let him chase you down afterwards… the best rouleur in the world.

And all of that is with the idea that for some reason he can’t climb properly. He might take 2 stages and the GC. Starts the season with 6 wins

2nd best rouleur in the world. I think that's pretty clear

 

[Berniece]

2nd best rouleur in the world. I think that's pretty clear

Not really, but that discussion has been had too many times so we’ll agree to disagree

 

[Berniece]

I dont have time to check right now on my way to dinner, but I’m pretty sure I read that he’s riding it if not my bad.

Interview with Van Gils after Mallorca says Evenepoel is not riding Flèche. Might change of course if he wins AGR

 

[Extinction]

I don't like his spring campaign. He's coming into the prime years of his career. If ever he would be thinking of a MSR and/or a Flanders, it should be now. What has he got to lose? Putting so much into the Tour, when realistically he won't beat Pogacar, seems self-defeating. Would it not be better to mix things up, try new events, while still giving himself time to focus on the Tour? I'd rather have seen participation in either PN or TA, followed by (I know SB would be asking too much) MSR, then Flanders, alitude camp, Dauphine then Tour.

 

[AmRacer]

I don't like his spring campaign. He's coming into the prime years of his career. If ever he would be thinking of a MSR and/or a Flanders, it should be now. What has he got to lose? Putting so much into the Tour, when realistically he won't beat Pogacar, seems self-defeating. Would it not be better to mix things up, try new events, while still giving himself time to focus on the Tour? I'd rather have seen participation in either PN or TA, followed by (I know SB would be asking too much) MSR, then Flanders, alitude camp, Dauphine then Tour.

A Belgian with his palmares and prime age, he should definitely race RVV.
2021, he should have raced the Tour instead of the Giro, would have had more time to prepare.
2023, as world champ he should have raced the Tour instead of trying the Giro and later trying to defending his Vuelta.

 

[Cycling111]

A Belgian with his palmares and prime age, he should definitely race RVV.
2021, he should have raced the Tour instead of the Giro, would have had more time to prepare.
2023, as world champ he should have raced the Tour instead of trying the Giro and later trying to defending his Vuelta.

I have a feeling Remco will try when MVDP is past his prime. That's legitimate, but personally what I like about Pogacar is that he wants to beat MVDP in his prime, although he could be increasing his record in Paris-Nice, Itzulia and other races that he doesn't ride to prepare for those Monuments that he doesn't win.

 

[Extinction]

A Belgian with his palmares and prime age, he should definitely race RVV.
2021, he should have raced the Tour instead of the Giro, would have had more time to prepare.
2023, as world champ he should have raced the Tour instead of trying the Giro and later trying to defending his Vuelta.

Agreed. I just think a rider of his calibre should be doing other monuments and the biggest stage races in preparation for his GT appointments. That's building a legacy, not avoiding the truely big events for the enth participation in Catalunya. Given what Pog has achieved, I don't even think riding Giro and Tour at once would have been a bad idea, as maybe he could have netted a maglia rosa by now. First at Soudal, now at Bora; they seem too conservative in their approach, never willing to take "risks" with him. Yet they may have, in doing so, lost a number of occasions and opportunities. The only one that seems to be doing it right is UAE, unfortunately for Remco.

 

[Berniece]

I have a feeling Remco will try when MVDP is past his prime. That's legitimate, but personally what I like about Pogacar is that he wants to beat MVDP in his prime.

Has nothing to do with what Evenepoel, which you know since it has been told 1000 times already.

 

[Extinction]

I have a feeling Remco will try when MVDP is past his prime. That's legitimate, but personally what I like about Pogacar is that he wants to beat MVDP in his prime, although he could be increasing his record in Paris-Nice, Itzulia and other races that he doesn't ride to prepare for those Monuments that he doesn't win.

Remco should throw himself all in and to hell with MvdP in his prime. Who cares if he loses, so long as the fight is earnest? Cycling needs the biggest stars at the biggest events. We're not in the same sport of 20 years ago. With Pog and MvdP, it's more like back to historical cycling and Remco can't perform if he doesn't show up.

 

[Cycling111]

Agreed. I just think a rider of his calibre should be doing other monuments and the biggest stage races in preparation for his GT appointments. That's building a legacy, not avoiding the truely big events for the enth participation in Catalunya. Given what Pog has achieved, I don't even think riding Giro and Tour at once would have been a bad idea, as maybe he could have netted a maglia rosa by now. First at Soudal, now at Bora; they seem too conservative in their approach, never willing to take "risks" with him. Yet they may have, in doing so, lost a number of occasions and opportunities. The only one that seems to be doing it right is UAE, unfortunately for Remco.

UAE didn't want Pogacar to ride Flanders either, and they were even more reluctant about Roubaix. But a rider of that caliber can overrule the team.
In the end, the team's star decision prevails.

 

[HashRouge]

Agreed. I just think a rider of his calibre should be doing other monuments and the biggest stage races in preparation for his GT appointments. That's building a legacy, not avoiding the truely big events for the enth participation in Catalunya. Given what Pog has achieved, I don't even think riding Giro and Tour at once would have been a bad idea, as maybe he could have netted a maglia rosa by now. First at Soudal, now at Bora; they seem too conservative in their approach, never willing to take "risks" with him. Yet they may have, in doing so, lost a number of occasions and opportunities. The only one that seems to be doing it right is UAE, unfortunately for Remco.

While I understand this take, I give him an out for this year. I think he wants the "perfect" build up for the Tour on his new team, so his spring schedule is designed to fit with that. If he hadn't had that crash last winter, and had had another decent Tour last year, he might have done things differently this year.

 

[Salvarani]

A Belgian with his palmares and prime age, he should definitely race RVV.
2021, he should have raced the Tour instead of the Giro, would have had more time to prepare.
2023, as world champ he should have raced the Tour instead of trying the Giro and later trying to defending his Vuelta.

It is all mental reasons.

 

[AmRacer]

Has nothing to do with what Evenepoel, which you know since it has been told 1000 times already.

Not this year maybe, but any of his other previous years. And also, Remco has no say regarding his schedule?