Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[KoopaCycling]

I don't think Jonas is in GT shape either, and same for Almeida. And no, they are all at the same point, nobody is further from top shape. The one(s) who have start racing should have an advantage though. Who dislike Remco?

No no, you always claimed Almeida and Vingegaard default shape more closely resembles their GT shape, as they are more naturally suited to it.
By your logic Almeida and Vingegaard should then by default be naturally better when Remco is equally as far away as the other two from his GT shape.

 

[AmRacer]

If that makes you happy.

Neither happy or the opposite

 

[red_flanders]

Neither happy or the opposite

I struggle to find the point of labeling anyone in such a subjective way. He has to work harder than some really skinny guys to get to weight. That's all I said.

I get cringe Phil Ligget vibes like when he had to make some distinction between "real climbers" and the guys like Indurain and Armstrong who blew them away in the mountains. It seems dumb to me. One could also just have called them "guys who can't TT or climb as well as big champions".

 

[AmRacer]

I struggle to find the point of labeling anyone in such a subjective way. He has to work harder than some really skinny guys to get to weight. That's all I said.

I get cringe Phil Ligget vibes like when he had to make some distinction between "real climbers" and the guys like Indurain and Armstrong who blew them away in the mountains. It seems dumb to me. One could also just have called them "guys who can't TT or climb as well as big champions".

Yeah, that's like the definition of a natural climber. They are built for it and has an advantage, while as you say, Remco and others have to work harder for it.

 

[red_flanders]

Yeah, that's like the definition of a natural climber. They are built for it and has an advantage, while as you say, Remco and others have to work harder for it.

Great. What was the point of your initial response to me then? Why did you need to ask me / state that he's not a "natural climber"?

I don't get the point.

 

[Extinction]

Anybody that can ride to third in his first Tour is a "natural climber" by any definition. At any rate, the whole notion of "natural" is scientifically meaningless, when it just boils down to power to weight ratio over sustained output. One either has it or not and everybody has to train hard and diet right to get there.

 

[AmRacer]

Anybody that can ride to third in his first Tour is a "natural climber" by any definition. At any rate, the whole notion of "natural" is scientifically meaningless, when it just boils down to power to weight ratio over sustained output. One either has it or not and everybody has to train hard and diet right to get there.

Some are more talented than others or has a body type matching the challenge. Others need to work harder for it.

 

[Cycling111]

Figueira classic in 2024.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2018762414485889074

View: https://x.com/i/status/2018762414485889074

 

[Berniece]

Figueira classic in 2024.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2018762414485889074

View: https://x.com/i/status/2018762414485889074

What do you mean?

 

[KoopaCycling]

Maybe that Remco looked in good shape early on in 2024 as well.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Remco is in good shape, but not GT shape. Hence i expect no change vs Vingegaard in the mountains during the UAE Tour. I expect to see a status quo with previous years. I hope he shows glimpses of improvement , and i want to see even more during the dauphiné. That way we know Red Bull new regime is paying off.

I'm just saying that Almeida, like Vinegaard is considered more consistent in his shape. If Almeida is as good as advertised by those that dislike Remco, it should be no contest. Personally i think they're wrong. I expect Remco and Almeida to be close (despite Remco being probably further from his best by other people logic) than Almeida will be. And if Almeida somehow can't even keep up with Remco. I'll just consider almeida his hype and negativity around Remco to be no more then recency bias fueled by a not-so-hidden agenda.

We will have to wait until the Tour I'm afraid. At Dauphine he'll face neither Pogacar nor Vingegaard. They others he should be better than anyway

 

[Cycling111]

Almeida lost against Buitrago last year. His first race isn't usually his most consistent, and this route doesn't suit him.

 

[KoopaCycling]

We will have to wait until the Tour I'm afraid. At Dauphine he'll face neither Pogacar nor Vingegaard. They others he should be better than anyway

Fair enough. I kinda assumed Vingegaard was doing the Dauphiné. I do rate Del Toro quite high. And he will be there methinks.

 

[Extinction]

Some are more talented than others or has a body type matching the challenge. Others need to work harder for it.

But who is a "natural" climber in modern cycling based on body "type" vs. someone who can just find the right power to weight combo through scientific performance training? Geraint Thomas won Alpe d'Huez during a GC battle. Was he a "natural climber" more than say a featherweight like Louis Meintjes? Does Evenepoel have less "natural" climbing ability than Thomas did, who came from the track? I find such categorizations meaningless today, unless we're talking about the obvious difference in body type/physiological propensity with heavier non-climbers.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

He also has less chances at GT. He has only 1, max 2 chances a year at them. Classics he has more opportunities so that also gives a skewed image

No, I meant all important one week races. He has won none.

Or is it that his weight during spring is focused on classics instead of pure climbing?

Since when large weight is needed for Ardennes classics? It's not like he's ever taken part in Roubaix or Flandres or even MSR. There have clearly been weight management problems in the past and he had to drop a lot of weight in some cases (i.e. before the Tour 2024). One can hope RBH will be able to stabilize his weight better (so those changes across the season are less dramatic).

 

[Berniece]

Since when large weight is needed for Ardennes classics? It's not like he's ever taken part in Roubaix or Flandres or even MSR. There have clearly been weight management problems in the past and he had to drop a lot of weight in some cases (i.e. before the Tour 2024). One can hope RBH will be able to stabilize his weight better (so those changes across the season are less dramatic).

For rouleur purposes which help during Ardennes classics it's preferred he weighs a bit more. That's at least the approach they always took at SOQ. Not saying that's correct, but that the idea of the performance team at SOQ was that he needed to weigh a bit more to have a higher chance at winning LBL. And that that's the reason why during spring, he didn't climb as well as he did during Vuelta 2022 and TDF 2024.

 

[Jan the Man]

Not followed everything - but I certainly think Remco has an excellent shot at finishing ahead of Jonas this year. Jonas is doing the Giro and the Tour will be the second GT. Jonas won the Vuelta last year but was not on a completely different level to Almeida . If history repeats then if Remco is slightly better than 2024 I think it is logical to think he can best a Jonas ridding a second GT.

It is obviously far from a certainty but it’s a logical consquence that Jonas will be beatable having to ride the Giro and having relatively speaking some decent competition (compared to Pog in ‘24 say).

People should not be clouded by Pog 24 as to how difficult the double is and the impact going all out in the Giro has on the Tour, when you are facing people who have specifically targeted the tour as their first GT of the season

 

[Berniece]

Not followed everything - but I certainly think Remco has an excellent shot at finishing ahead of Jonas this year. Jonas is doing the Giro and the Tour will be the second GT. Jonas won the Vuelta last year but was not on a completely different level to Almeida . If history repeats then if Remco is slightly better than 2024 I think it is logical to think he can best a Jonas ridding a second GT.

It is obviously far from a certainty but it’s a logical consquence that Jonas will be beatable having to ride the Giro and having relatively speaking some decent competition (compared to Pog in ‘24 say).

People should not be clouded by Pog 24 as to how difficult the double is and the impact going all out in the Giro has on the Tour, when you are facing people who have specifically targeted the tour as their first GT of the season

Indeed, Vingegaard will have a much more difficult Giro compared to the one Pogacar did. Pogacar had basically no opposition, while Vingegaard will have to go against Almeida, Pellizzari/Hindley, Ciccone, Gall, Carapaz. Wouldn't be surprised if he comes out knackered.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Indeed, Vingegaard will have a much more difficult Giro compared to the one Pogacar did. Pogacar had basically no opposition, while Vingegaard will have to go against Almeida, Pellizzari/Hindley, Ciccone, Gall, Carapaz. Wouldn't be surprised if he comes out knackered.

Tbh the only relevant name here is Almeida. Ciccone said he won't be going for GC anymore because he simply can't do it. The rest are more or less in line with what Pogacar was facing

 

[Krzysztof_O]

For rouleur purposes which help during Ardennes classics it's preferred he weighs a bit more. That's at least the approach they always took at SOQ. Not saying that's correct, but that the idea of the performance team at SOQ was that he needed to weigh a bit more to have a higher chance at winning LBL. And that that's the reason why during spring, he didn't climb as well as he did during Vuelta 2022 and TDF 2024.

I agree that 1-2 kilo more than Tour weight is fine and healthy for most of the season (including hilly races and TTs) but my point is that he had bigger weight changes in the past (see his Dauphine vs Tour look in 2024 for example). It's not like 1 kilo more suddenly transforms a Tour podium finisher into a rider that consistently loses significant time in big one-week races (vs theoretically weaker competition).

 

[Berniece]

Tbh the only relevant name here is Almeida. Ciccone said he won't be going for GC anymore because he simply can't do it. The rest are more or less in line with what Pogacar was facing

Yeah Almeida is the real challenge, but Carapaz, Hindley and Pellizzari are better than Thomas and Martinez. They can still create chaos.

 

[Berniece]

I agree that 1-2 kilo more than Tour weight is fine and healthy for most of the season (including hilly races and TTs) but my point is that he had bigger weight changes in the past (see his Dauphine vs Tour look in 2024 for example). It's not like 1 kilo more suddenly transforms a Tour podium finisher into a rider that consistently loses significant time in big one-week races.

Dauphine - TDF 2024 difference was because he was still recovering from his crash. There wasn't time yet to properly decrease his weight.

I think 1kg is around 30s per X amount of km's. Don't now X anymore, I know logic used to say this here sometimes.

If Evenepoel loses significant time in mountains in big one week races, it barely has to do with his weight, and mostly with the build up towards goals. Most of them are easily explained by crashes.

 

[AmRacer]

Dauphine - TDF 2024 difference was because he was still recovering from his crash. There wasn't time yet to properly decrease his weight.

I think 1kg is around 30s per X amount of km's. Don't now X anymore, I know logic used to say this here sometimes.

If Evenepoel loses significant time in mountains in big one week races, it barely has to do with his weight, and mostly with the build up towards goals. Most of them are easily explained by crashes.

No more excuses this season.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Yeah Almeida is the real challenge, but Carapaz, Hindley and Pellizzari are better than Thomas and Martinez. They can still create chaos.

2022 Thomas was easily 3rd best at the Tour. 2023 Thomas was as close to winning the Giro as you can be without winning it

 

[Berniece]

2022 Thomas was easily 3rd best at the Tour. 2023 Thomas was as close to winning the Giro as you can be without winning it

So? 2023 Thomas wasn’t impressive, and neither was 2024