The Roche Family and Irish Cycling

[gooner]

Rodriguez lost 3 minutes in the TT to Roche that year.

And of course when he is hanging on to Pinot (who showed at his first Tour that he wasn't even scheduled to ride much more uphill than Roche has ever done), Basso (who is old, but his worst GT placing when he was captain since his return from his ban is equal to Roche's best), Rodriguez (who has improved massively and podiumed his last 3 GTs), Valverde and Nibali out come all sorts of excuses.

Question.

Do you think Roche would be hanging on to the coattails of Rodriguez if he was on his tip top recent GT form or if Nibali's was hitting his Giro levels from earlier in the year? Nibali besides on Monday hasn't come close to that form. And you can't mention Rodriguez's last 3 GTs when for me he still hasn't hit those heights here just yet. This is of course taking into account Roche's current performances. On what we have seen so far I suppose he would have stayed with Rodriguez alongside Quintana and Froome on Semnoz at the Tour so.

 

[The Hitch]

Question.

. And you can't mention Rodriguez's last 3 GTs when for me he still hasn't hit those heights here just yet.:

The thing is though, he isnt comparing Rodriguez to his recent heights but to his 2010 Vuelta, when he still beat Roche.

ANd by all accounts Rodriguez was worse then. First of all he was a worse climber. Or at least less consistent. He came 3rd on Tourmalet but quite a bit behind Contador and Schleck and on the other mountains he wasnt that good. He had not yet podiumed a gt and would not for another 2 years.

He also had raced quite a bit more on form that season up to that point. He was 1st in cq at that point that year. This year he is 8th as he has been saving himself for the tour- vuelta -worlds trio.

This year he was taking it easy mode with the ex

 

[Inquitus]

Roche was hanging on for grim death on the mountain finish the other day, he kept getting dropped with each attack and then grinding back on when they started looking at each other. No real evidence of anything dodgy here, he did a good TT on a TT course which suited him, and he has peaked for the Vuelta whereas most of the others have not or have ridden the Tour.

 

[pmcg76]

The thing is though, he isnt comparing Rodriguez to his recent heights but to his 2010 Vuelta, when he still beat Roche.

ANd by all accounts Rodriguez was worse then. First of all he was a worse climber. Or at least less consistent. He came 3rd on Tourmalet but quite a bit behind Contador and Schleck and on the other mountains he wasnt that good. He had not yet podiumed a gt and would not for another 2 years.

He also had raced quite a bit more on form that season up to that point. He was 1st in cq at that point that year. This year he is 8th as he has been saving himself for the tour- vuelta -worlds trio.

This year he was taking it easy mode with the ex

This is silly, people claim Roche has never performed at this level before, climbing wise. I introduce stats to show he has and then suddenly people are introducing qualifiers about form, injuries etc which are apparently relevant to 2010 but not 2013!!!

All I read in the stage thread the other day was about how cowardly Rodriguez/Valverde were because once Basso stopped making pace, these guys wouldn't pick it up even though Nibali was riding away from them. It was left to Pinot to make the pace even though he had been dropped early on with Roche. If those guys had all contributed, there is a good chance Roche would never have made it back on and finished between 30sec-1 min down which is a normal level for Roche.

We will see in the long mountain stages as we have only had one so far which Roche struggled on.

 

[pmcg76]

Rodriguez lost 3 minutes in the TT to Roche that year.

And of course when he is hanging on to Pinot (who showed at his first Tour that he wasn't even scheduled to ride much more uphill than Roche has ever done), Basso (who is old, but his worst GT placing when he was captain since his return from his ban is equal to Roche's best), Rodriguez (who has improved massively and podiumed his last 3 GTs), Valverde and Nibali out come all sorts of excuses.

You know Roche finished ahead of Pinot on two of the mountain stages at the Tour last year, La Planche des Filles and Bagneres-de-Luchon. He also finished ahead of Basso every time.

 

[Samson777]

This is silly, people claim Roche has never performed at this level before, climbing wise. I introduce stats to show he has and then suddenly people are introducing qualifiers about form, injuries etc which are apparently relevant to 2010 but not 2013!!!

All I read in the stage thread the other day was about how cowardly Rodriguez/Valverde were because once Basso stopped making pace, these guys wouldn't pick it up even though Nibali was riding away from them. It was left to Pinot to make the pace even though he had been dropped early on with Roche. If those guys had all contributed, there is a good chance Roche would never have made it back on and finished between 30sec-1 min down which is a normal level for Roche.

We will see in the long mountain stages as we have only had one so far which Roche struggled on.

And since this is the clinic, I hope you will forgive me for asking this; Do you think the fact that Roche have performed before, indicates that he is a doper or not?

Or what is your point exactly?

 

[pmcg76]

And since this is the clinic, I hope you will forgive me for asking this; Do you think the fact that Roche have performed before, indicates that he is a doper or not?

Or what is your point exactly?

I generally don't ever make such claims but I have levels of suspicion. Guys who have miraculous transformations like Froome/Armstrong are top level with other guys at varying levels below that. I was skeptical of JTL when he morphed out of nowhere last year and was criticised for daring to say so but he has now fallen of the map again. I never claim to 'know' someone is doping. So on my own suspicion index Roche would be a 5/6 maybe.

If people want to claim that Roche has been doping all-along, fine I wont argue on that. What I take issue with is people claiming he has never climbed at a high level and how that is proof of him now getting on the sauce at Saxo Bank. I still think if Nibali/Valverde/ Purito were in top shape, he wouldn't live with them.

 

[Samson777]

]I generally don't ever make such claims but I have levels of suspicion. [/B]Guys who have miraculous transformations like Froome/Armstrong are top level with other guys at varying levels below that. I was skeptical of JTL when he morphed out of nowhere last year and was criticised for daring to say so but he has now fallen of the map again. I never claim to 'know' someone is doping. So on my own suspicion index Roche would be a 5/6 maybe.

If people want to claim that Roche has been doping all-along, fine I wont argue on that. What I take issue with is people claiming he has never climbed at a high level and how that is proof of him now getting on the sauce at Saxo Bank. I still think if Nibali/Valverde/ Purito were in top shape, he wouldn't live with them.

I only mentioned indication of doping, which is not so different from a level of suspicion, I guess..?

It sounds off course most realistic that he have been doping all along. But do to Stephen Roche talk about how he( Nicolas) needed to "prepare" better, you can perhaps understand why people think he did not dope "properly" in the past. So now where he is in the spotlight for his performances, ( and is a Riis boy) the easy conclusion could be,that he have upgraded his program. Even do it perhaps isn't the case..

 

[elduggo]

But do to Stephen Roche talk about how he( Nicolas) needed to "prepare" better, you can perhaps understand why people think he did not dope "properly" in the past.

so you think Stephen Roche gave an interview about his son, the subtext of which was that he needed to dope more/better?

seriously?

 

[Cycle Chic]

so you think Stephen Roche gave an interview about his son, the subtext of which was that he needed to dope more/better?

seriously?

yeh Roche senior is dim but not that stoopid

 

[pmcg76]

yeh Roche senior is dim but not that stoopid

Pot meet kettle>

 

[Cycle Chic]

Pot meet kettle>

your posts also resemble kettles - spouting crap

Mods - don't even try to warn me after others get away with insults

 

[del1962]

I don't think it is fair to condemn someone because his father visited some Italian Doctor

 

[Froomador]

yeh Roche senior is dim but not that stoopid

If you actually knew Roche Senior you would know he isn't dim... move along now

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

I don't think it is fair to condemn someone because his father visited some Italian Doctor

Come on, this is the clinic, it's fine to condemn someone just for being a cyclist.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Roche the Climber

Nicolas Roche doesnt even look like a climber. His style is terrible. He looks like Jens Voigt, all crouched over the handlebars....a natural climber I think not.

He continued to develop as a talented all-round rider with the French based Credit Agricole and AG2R La-Mondiale teams

http://www.nicolasroche.co.uk/Biography

and yet now he is King of the Mountains all of a sudden.

Seeing him alongside Rodriquez in yesterdays stage it wasn't pretty.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Nicolas Roche doesnt even look like a climber. His style is terrible. He looks like Jens Voigt, all crouched over the handlebars....a natural climber I think not.



http://www.nicolasroche.co.uk/Biography

and yet now he is King of the Mountains all of a sudden.

Seeing him alongside Rodriquez in yesterdays stage it wasn't pretty.

Who said Roche was a "natural climber"?
Or is that honor given to you because you wear a jersey?

 

[Cycle Chic]

Who said Roche was a "natural climber"?
Or is that honor given to you because you wear a jersey?

1 Vincenzo Nibali,
2 Nicolas Roche
3 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte
4 Christopher Horner
5 Joaquim Rodriguez Oliver
6 Domenico Pozzovivo
7 Ivan Basso
8 Thibaut Pinot
9 Rafal Majka
10 Daniel Moreno Fernandez

Looks like he's with the Climbers to me !

 

[Dr. Maserati]

1 Vincenzo Nibali,
2 Nicolas Roche
3 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte
4 Christopher Horner
5 Joaquim Rodriguez Oliver
6 Domenico Pozzovivo
7 Ivan Basso
8 Thibaut Pinot
9 Rafal Majka
10 Daniel Moreno Fernandez

Looks like he's with the Climbers to me !

That looks remarkably like the overall classification.

 

[Cycle Chic]

That looks remarkably like the overall classification.

exactly....and your point is ?

TDF podium was Froome, Quintana and Rodriquez...again - all climbers - which I would allude to means the climbers are GC contenders / winners...so Podium in the Vuelta 2013 will be climbers....and Roche will be there....

doesn't that mean he's a climber / strong climber ?

 

[Netserk]

1. [USA] HORNER Chris RLT 4h30'22" 70
2. [ITA] NIBALI Vincenzo AST 48" 40
3. [ESP] VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro MOV 01'02" 25
4. [ITA] BASSO Ivan CAN 01'02" 15
5. [ESP] RODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquim KAT 01'02" 10
6. [FRA] PINOT Thibaut FDJ 01'02" 7
7. [IRL] ROCHE Nicolas TST 01'10" 5
8. [ESP] ANTON HERNANDEZ Igor EUS 01'25" 3
9. [ITA] POZZOVIVO Domenico ALM 01'25" 2
10. [POL] MAJKA Rafal TST 01'52" 1

Slightly stronger than Anton. Wow.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

exactly....and your point is ?

TDF podium was Froome, Quintana and Rodriquez...again - all climbers - which I would allude to means the climbers are GC contenders / winners...so Podium in the Vuelta 2013 will be climbers....and Roche will be there....

doesn't that mean he's a climber / strong climber ?

My sincere apologies - I thought the overall classification took in to account all stages over the 3 week event including things like the transfer stages, TTs and TTTs - which would show the "all round" (hmm) capabilities of the rider.

 

[Netserk]

So he got 13th in the Vuelta as a 24 year old, but it's a surprise that he is the ~7th best climber in the Vuelta as a 28 year old?

 

[fmk_RoI]

I don't think it is fair to condemn someone because his father visited some Italian Doctor

I wouldn't say Roche Snr visited some Italian doctor. He was employed by the team. A subtle difference.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Nicolas Roche doesnt even look like a climber. ... a natural climber I think not.

Roche has always been seen as a competent all-rounder, with TTing being his major weakness (that and his mental attitude). He could generally hang with climbers until the final ramp or so, where he'd shed time.