"The Secret Pro" on Katusha and doping

[taiwan]

from "the denis menchov thread" in pro road.

Why does it irk when you know he beat a doped up Di Luca, somethings wrong.

Wrong forum. In this forum Di Luca, Menchov and Wiggins are all clean as a whistle

But tbh I don't quite understand your point. It jusr bothers me that Menchov can be chipping away for ten years always just out of range of winning, while e.g. Wiggins can transfer from Wigan to Man U and seemingly take whatever races he wants in a couple of seasons. But I don't know about Menchov's ambitions.

His fall in the 2009 Giro TT was probably the most exciting thing he ever did as well as crashing uphill in the Tour. Cobbles and water on the road did not help of course but he was a real diesel, similar to Evans. Nothing flashy but always there. As for the other allegations, I will reserve judgement. I think it was time for him to retire.

I will not comment on this unless its moved to the clinic

To continue the discussion in a more appropriate place....

@ TANK91 I'm just talking about their career progression. Menchov has solid dirt on him but his progression was quite orthodox I think. Wiggins is the opposite - he's still being touted as clean, but his development as a rider is extremely hard to swallow. I see Menchov as a compromised professional trying to keep his career going despite being shut out by the establishment, and Wiggins as a not very subtle, ambitious newcomer with a lot of money and the UCI behind him. One got the Tour win, the other didn't. But as I said I don't know Menchov, I'm probablg projecting or something.

The win over the most ostentatiously juiced guy in the peloton was a nice moment for a rider dismissed as boring though.

 

[RownhamHill]

Thanks .

That's a pretty public indictment of Santa no?

Is the secretpros anonymous posting on a social network any more public or private than mine or your anonymous posting on a social network?

 

[webvan]

So it seems Menchov got a bad rap here for nothing since the former GT winner who got popped is none other thand Danilo Di Luca -> http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=20726 !

I guess the question is why it took so long (from at least May 7th to May 24th) for the rumor to become official news? A stealth B sample testing? Although he did talk about "biological passport irregularities" and not an EPO positive, but rumors are not always right on the details...

 

[hrotha]

So it seems Menchov got a bad rap here for nothing since the former GT winner who got popped is none other thand Danilo Di Luca -> http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=20726 !

I guess the question is why it took so long (from at least May 7th to May 24th) for the rumor to become official news? A stealth B sample testing? Although he did talk about "biological passport irregularities" and not an EPO positive, but rumors are not always right on the details...

I'd say this invalidates the rest of your post as things stand right now.

 

[Ripper]

So it seems Menchov got a bad rap here for nothing since the former GT winner who got popped is none other thand Danilo Di Luca -> http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=20726 !

I guess the question is why it took so long (from at least May 7th to May 24th) for the rumor to become official news? A stealth B sample testing? Although he did talk about "biological passport irregularities" and not an EPO positive, but rumors are not always right on the details...

May be Wiggo's gonna retire next ...

 

[webvan]

I'd say this invalidates the rest of your post as things stand right now.

So you think another former GT winner is going to get popped soon? Unlikely, but possible I guess, actually anything's possible. It's still more likely that the rumor has the source of the "pop" wrong, we'll see.

 

[King Boonen]

So you think another former GT winner is going to get popped soon? Unlikely, but possible I guess, actually anything's possible. It's still more likely that the rumor has the source of the "pop" wrong, we'll see.

the Secret Pro article was published on the 7th May, Di luca's test was on the 29th April. If it was this then it raises an interesting question, how did the peloton know? Remember the date is when the sample was collected, not when it was analysed, it's unlikely it was analysed before the article was published I would think, so did the peloton know he was doping? If so, do people still think Omerta is on the decline?

 

[Lanark]

the Secret Pro article was published on the 7th May, Di luca's test was on the 29th April. If it was this then it raises an interesting question, how did the peloton know? Remember the date is when the sample was collected, not when it was analysed, it's unlikely it was analysed before the article was published I would think, so did the peloton know he was doping? If so, do people still think Omerta is on the decline?

Or, far, far more likely, the secret pro didn't refer to Di Luca. It wasn't a blood passport case, the article was probably written days before the 7th of May, making the timeline even more problematic, and if the peloton really knew that Di Luca was already caught, I doubt he would have gotten such a smooth ride this Giro.

 

[King Boonen]

Or, far, far more likely, the secret pro didn't refer to Di Luca. It wasn't a blood passport case, the article was probably written days before the 7th of May, making the timeline even more problematic, and if the peloton really knew that Di Luca was already caught, I doubt he would have gotten such a smooth ride this Giro.

I completely agree with you, would be interesting to have conformation though.

 

[Frosty]

If the Secret Pro's GT winner was Di Luca its possible he knew what was coming and so decided to go out in style, doing whatever he could.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But then what of Menchov's sudden and seemingly random retirement?

Two GT winners have fallen by the wayside in the last few weeks. And once more Denis' crowning glories are usurped by talk of di Luca positives.

 

[Frosty]

But then what of Menchov's sudden and seemingly random retirement?

Two GT winners have fallen by the wayside in the last few weeks. And once more Denis' crowning glories are usurped by talk of di Luca positives.

Oh i agree, just trying to point out a possible reason why di Luca's positive EPO could be connected to the bio-passport.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Or, far, far more likely, the secret pro didn't refer to Di Luca. It wasn't a blood passport case, the article was probably written days before the 7th of May, making the timeline even more problematic, and if the peloton really knew that Di Luca was already caught, I doubt he would have gotten such a smooth ride this Giro.

This is about how I estimate it.

Keep in mind getting to the point where someone announces a positive takes a while. Lots of procedures.

My wild guess is the Secret Pro grand tour winner turned positive was Menchov. Why the federation picked him may have something to do with a huge number of other recent positives out of Russian Olympic sports. Why Russia? Why now? No idea.

Further to my crazy idea, basically, the UCI/Russian Fed told him to hang up the wheels or get a positive and that took some time and probably included communicating with team managers.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

the Secret Pro article was published on the 7th May, Di luca's test was on the 29th April. If it was this then it raises an interesting question, how did the peloton know? Remember the date is when the sample was collected, not when it was analysed, it's unlikely it was analysed before the article was published I would think, so did the peloton know he was doping? If so, do people still think Omerta is on the decline?

Answer - No!

 

[zigmeister]

During the first week of the Giro the Norwegian eurosport commentators talked about a grand tour winner having tripped the bio passport. They speculated that it was either Basso or Menchov. Both having suddenly becoming unavailable for the Giro.

Could the rumored BP case be Menchov?

If yes, this could be the retiring message preceding the revelation of his BP violation.

Or perhaps he made a deal with the UCI to not make anything public on the condition that he really retired permanently. (that would seem odd, but with the UCI, odd appears to be normal).

Or perhaps this rumor was unfounded?

Sorry if this has been touched upon elsewhere. I haven't seen any clinic headlines.

Menchov tripped the passport and was rated a 9 out of 10 on the 2010 leaked biopassport TDF list. They just chose to only talk about going after Popovych later for some reason.

Hard to use the passport as guilt without proof positive, or people testifying against you apparently.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Menchov tripped the passport and was rated a 9 out of 10 on the 2010 leaked biopassport TDF list. They just chose to only talk about going after Popovych later for some reason.

Hard to use the passport as guilt without proof positive, or people testifying against you apparently.

UCI ran the Pellizotti case all the way to CAS and won. The case was based on the bp only. It was a critical and principal case.

UCI can do it again without other information/evidence.

 

[D-Queued]

UCI ran the Pellizotti case all the way to CAS and won. The case was based on the bp only. It was a critical and principal case.

UCI can do it again without other information/evidence.

Sure, but the BP has been much better used to shield dopers than ban them. Or, just another means to get Sysmex donations.

Someone had to be the guinea pig to allow the UCI to have one - first and last - test case they could refer to. Feel sorry for Pellizotti.

Dave.

 

[Big Doopie]

Feel sorry for Pellizotti.

Y? He seems to be doing just fine now in the Giro di Ferrari.

 

[IndianCyclist]

This is about how I estimate it.

Keep in mind getting to the point where someone announces a positive takes a while. Lots of procedures.

My wild guess is the Secret Pro grand tour winner turned positive was Menchov. Why the federation picked him may have something to do with a huge number of other recent positives out of Russian Olympic sports. Why Russia? Why now? No idea.

Further to my crazy idea, basically, the UCI/Russian Fed told him to hang up the wheels or get a positive and that took some time and probably included communicating with team managers.

Agree with you. I think the step was taken to inform Menchov & others so that the damage was limited to both parties as well as to save litigation costs.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Sure, but the BP has been much better used to shield dopers than ban them. Or, just another means to get Sysmex donations.

Someone had to be the guinea pig to allow the UCI to have one - first and last - test case they could refer to. Feel sorry for Pellizotti.

Dave.

lol, for sure UCI is corrupt, but that doesn't mean the bp can't be a effective tool if the anti doping side becomes completely independent and with better funding.

Had UCI lost the Pellizotti case, the pb would have been useless moving forward regardless of who manages the cases.

And Pellizotti is doing very well, racing wise and financially. Poor soul.

 

[nevada]

So could it be Wiggo ?

 

[blackcat]

So could it be Wiggo ?

no.

ZERO chance.

british cycling far too much power. perhaps they are no the most powerful bloc in cycling. wont happen. bet my life on this

soros told me not to short the BC cycling currency

 

[eljimberino]

From Evan's Diary:

Tour de France - Stage 19
Saturday, 24 July 2010
Big showdown for the final GC. In '07 and '08 I was in a similar situation to Shleck. '08 was the hardest for me - having been a bit knocked around by a crash. Riding amongst all the people into the final kilometres is actually a bit lonely, just concentrating on doing your best TT with your tiredest legs. A unique experience that I will probably appreciate one day....well after my career! Today's course was already well suited to the heavier 'rouleurs' and as the wind increased throughout the day, even more so. I gave my legs every oppurtunity to have a good day, but with elbow and all. My body is a tad on the exhausted side. The (Bmc) guys supported me all the way the same, hence the little wave at the deviation in the final. Did some take offence to that? Whatever.... Tomorrow, a train rides to the outskirts of Paris, and when the group sees the beautiful Eiffel Tower, we will almost hear the sigh of relief. Will anyone be able to better Cav?

 

[noddy69]

Long thread so I havent gone through it. Forgive me if this is well known already as it isnt to me. Have we figured out who the secret pro is ?

 

[taiwan]

Long thread so I havent gone through it. Forgive me if this is well known already as it isnt to me. Have we figured out who the secret pro is ?

There's no consensus but it's pretty much Koen de Kort

AFAIK he meets every criterion apart from having raced during October, and is friends with the blogger.