The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridiculous they can get

[BroDeal]

I'm more worried about Cunego and Menchov being in the clear

Make Menchov's name red, replace Pereiro with Landis, Andy with Contador, and it's a fine bunch of "winners."

 

[sittingbison]

I understand, you did say that no one showed that capability, and yet here we have boardman doing just that by climbing with GT men on a mountain stage perhaps pick something else to support your stance.

sigh.

Sorry for not including one cyclist in illustrious the list of cyclists in the entire history of cycling who have demonstrated an ability to pursuit, ITT and once in their career manage to keep up with GC climbers.

OK to make it easier for you function, and disregarding all his other GC efforts, lets include Sir Chris in the list:

1) Sir Chris Boardman
2) ...?

there you go. Fixed.

now I really am out of this thread

 

[function]

sigh.

Sorry for not including one cyclist in illustrious the list of cyclists in the entire history of cycling who have demonstrated an ability to pursuit, ITT and once in their career manage to keep up with GC climbers.

OK to make it easier for you function, and disregarding all his other GC efforts, lets include Sir Chris in the list:

1) Sir Chris Boardman
2) ...?

there you go. Fixed.

I'm not falling for this again

 

[function]

sigh.

Sorry for not including one cyclist in illustrious the list of cyclists in the entire history of cycling who have demonstrated an ability to pursuit, ITT and once in their career manage to keep up with GC climbers.

OK to make it easier for you function, and disregarding all his other GC efforts, lets include Sir Chris in the list:

1) Sir Chris Boardman
2) ...?

there you go. Fixed.

now I really am out of this thread

I couldnt help myself;


Roger Rivière:
World pursuit champ 3x
Hour record
4th 1959 TDF

Fausto Coppi:
World pursuit champ
Hour record
Multiple Tdf, Giro etc

Francesco Moser
World pursuit champ
Hour record
Giro winner

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

There is no issue with a young track rider focusing on IP or TP, and being able to rock out on the road. In fact, it's almost "hand in glove".

There's my two cents.

I still hate Sky....

Mind you, I'm not talking about top GC in a Grand Tour.

 

[Franklin]

I couldnt help myself;


Roger Rivière:
World pursuit champ 3x
Hour record
4th 1959 TDF

Fausto Coppi:
World pursuit champ
Hour record
Multiple Tdf, Giro etc

Francesco Moser
World pursuit champ
Hour record
Giro winner

Ahhhh the idiocy becomes overpowering.


Wiggo=Hinault!
Wiggo=Coppi!
Wiggo=Rivierre (a 24 year old huge talent)
Moser was a climber, just like Wiggo.

If you really thought about it all this shows how incredibly unlikely Sky's performance is

But I'm not sure you really understand cycling or know it's history. It's a bit sad at this point.

 

[Franklin]

Greg Lemond won the silver medal at the junior world championships in the pursuit and set a US record at the time. .

And Wiggins=Lemond

 

[BroDeal]

This starting to sound way too similar to Armstrong using a fourth place in a swimming contest when he was twelve.

 

[sittingbison]

This starting to sound way too similar to Armstrong using a fourth place in a swimming contest when he was twelve.

Wiggo=Armstrong hehe

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

This starting to sound way too similar to Armstrong using a fourth place in a swimming contest when he was twelve.

Haha! That was awesome!

 

[function]

Ahhhh the idiocy becomes overpowering.


Wiggo=Hinault!
Wiggo=Coppi!
Wiggo=Rivierre (a 24 year old huge talent)
Moser was a climber, just like Wiggo.

If you really thought about it all this shows how incredibly unlikely Sky's performance is

But I'm not sure you really understand cycling or know it's history. It's a bit sad at this point.

read the original question, read my response then can you point to where I said wiggins is hinault etc? thanks for the insults.

 

[Franklin]

read the original question, read my response then can you point to where I said wiggins is hinault etc? thanks for the insults.

No, you just fit in with the two other posters who made the Wiggo=Hinault and Wiggo=Lemond parallel.

But don't worry, your Wiggo=Coppi ranks at the same level of brilliance.

 

[function]

No, you just fit in with the two other posters who made the Wiggo=Hinault and Wiggo=Lemond parallel.

But don't worry, your Wiggo=Coppi ranks at the same level of brilliance.

So you're just lying and insulting posters for no reason

 

[Franklin]

So you're just lying and insulting posters for no reason

No, you insult your own intelligence with your comparisons.

The Moser example is the cake as you obviously are completely clueless how he won that one. It's absolutely the contrary of what you feebly tried to show

 

[function]

No, you insult your own intelligence with your comparisons.

The Moser example is the cake as you obviously are completely clueless how he won that one.

I know full well how and with who he worked. But this discussion is pointless with someone as emotional as you. Good luck

 

[Franklin]

I know full well how and with who he worked. But this discussion is pointless with someone as emotional as you. Good luck

Seriously... you have not a clue what happened that year. *Hint it was not dope and it had everything to do with a track rider NOT being able to follow climbers

It's truly achieving epic proportions of ignorance of cycling's history.

 

[BroDeal]

I am waiting for the Wiggins=Riis comparison.

Riis showed that a late bloomer who was willing to emaciate himself could win the big one.

 

[Krebs cycle]

But I'm not sure you really understand cycling or know it's history. It's a bit sad at this point.

Well pretty much the entire basis of the "Wiggins is doping theory" is predicated on the assumption that he suddenly and dramatically improved performance around 2009. Quite a few people either stated or implied that Wiggins showed no potential in road TTs prior to 2009. However, after a single day of researching road TT and prologue results comparing Wiggins performances to Cancellara from 2005 through 2012, I found that assumption to be 100% completely and utterly false. One spurious result here or there in a GT is going to be more subject to variability due to conditions, fatigue or team tactics. So the best way to compare performances are prologues and TT championships, and if we look at those, then Wiggins has consistently remained within 3 or 4% behind Cancellara. He didn't suddenly start whipping Cancellara's tail post 2009. So in fact, there are quite a few people who don't know their cycling history very well.

I understand that we all have a right to be suspicious, but what is really sad is when people start making stuff up that just isn't true in order to justify their own beliefs.

 

[Cavalier]

3-4% is an absolute age in any sport. The amount of improvement needed to bridge that gap is excessive at an elite level. It's the equivalent of a 10 second 100m runner suddenly running 9.7 - it just doesn't happen that suddenly. You need to be able to better demonstrate someone jumping to the head of the pack, and a track background doesn't remotely factor in as evidence. Completely different discipline.

 

[blackcat]

The question I was addressing was why would Brailsford pick DM for the Olympics.

GT won't be riding the Olympic RR and whatever you might think Cav does need help for the RR to keep the peloton together.

Millar would be the first of mine, to ride as support, before I saw wiggins last 10km in Copenhagen.

see Millar at 2006 Worlds on the front in the last 2km in Salzburg, before Sammy Sanchez jumped with Valverde on his wheel, that delivered a Zabal and Bettini to the line

 

[blackcat]

Well pretty much the entire basis of the "Wiggins is doping theory" is predicated on the assumption that he suddenly and dramatically improved performance around 2009. Quite a few people either stated or implied that Wiggins showed no potential in road TTs prior to 2009. However, after a single day of researching road TT and prologue results comparing Wiggins performances to Cancellara from 2005 through 2012, I found that assumption to be 100% completely and utterly false. One spurious result here or there in a GT is going to be more subject to variability due to conditions, fatigue or team tactics. So the best way to compare performances are prologues and TT championships, and if we look at those, then Wiggins has consistently remained within 3 or 4% behind Cancellara. He didn't suddenly start whipping Cancellara's tail post 2009. So in fact, there are quite a few people who don't know their cycling history very well.

I understand that we all have a right to be suspicious, but what is really sad is when people start making stuff up that just isn't true in order to justify their own beliefs.

4 Days of Dunkirk or something is a quality chrono field. meh


he peaked for 2007 London prologue, and other riders peaked knowing they had to conquer two mtn ranges with HC climbs.

Wiggo was behind Hincapie and Klodi.

 

[Cavalier]

Further on my last post - even Usain Bolt's quite extraordinary improvement over 100m (he was only a 200m runner before showing a ridiculous capability over 100m) only came in at a 2.7% improvement at his largest performance jump, but he'd shown ridiculous potential as a junior.
In short, there's nothing in Wiggins' past that would indicate that sheer level of improvement. Nothing.

 

[xcleigh]

By for example launching the ridicuous statement that this whole thread is libel

About the Hinault-Wiggins claim:

Hog pointed out that we had to go back to Hinault to see a team rule so supreme. You then made the comparison and actually doubled down upon that one.

Comparing Hinault and Wiggins... it's trolling or stupidity. Again, pick your poison.

So it isn't ridiculous to compare Hinault to Wiggins as long as it is used to draw the conclusion that Wiggins and his team ain't half the rider of Hinault and his team so is clearly and indictor that something is odd?? So a pre epo Hinault and his team it's fine to dominate but a post epo Sky it's not? So do I assume that The comparison to Postal is used to further damn them too as this was the last to dominate like this (or was it Hinault?).

Oh and the libel comment was not directed at the whole thread merely posters who stated that Sky were definitely doping as a point of fact (based on nothing more than what they see and joining some dots). The suggestion was that such comments could be libel (cerainly a magazine or newspaper wouldn't be able to print such definitive statements- libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, or nation a negative image).

I doubt team sky really give two hoots what is written here as ably demonstrated by wiggins See You Next Tuesdays comments but I'm certainly enjoying it!

 

[Franklin]

So a pre epo Hinault and his team it's fine to dominate but a post epo Sky it's not?

And doubling down again. The claim that Wiggins is as dominant as bernard Hinault is beyond silly.

The comparison of Renault-Gitane with Sky is about as idiotic. Renault-Gitane at that time had three TdF's (1 van Impe, 2 Hinault), a Giro and a Vuelta under their belt.

You say without blinking what we can expect from Sky's performance is just the same as that of the second greatest rider ever and his extremely experienced GT team.

 

[blackcat]

Let's face it. Track cycling is a joke. The only people who care about it are a few Brits and Aussies. The real money is to be made on the road, so that is where the talented riders go. If Cancellara could be bothered to race on the track then his palmares would make Wiggins' look like those of a piker. Pointing to illustrious titles on the track is like pointing to illustrious titles at the neighborhood crit.

yep yep yep

the pikies on bikies