The Sky-Con-O-Meter. Predictions on how much more ridiculous they can get

[will10]

one has to be careful of simply suggesting ALL exceptional performances = doping - frankly, if you DO think that, why do you bother with any sport at all?

To turn that around - why do you watch sport?

 

[the sceptic]

i thought it was common knowledge that everyone in the 100m final is doped to the eyeballs.

 

[thehog]

The hypocrisy during BBC's coverage of the Olympics was horrendous. Openly discussing whether certain winners were doping, whereas others were seemingly above suspicion. So forgive me for seeking a little entertainment in the prospect of a Gatlin win. Might I also refer you to the hundreds of "suck on that haters!" posts in the Olympic RR thread as Vino took gold.



To turn that around - why do you watch sport?

You could just see Cav and Wiggins wanting to say 'doper' when Vino won. It took a lot of strength not say it.

That race was the funniest thing I'd seen all year. Dope gone wrong. Went to their heads.

 

[sniper]

You could just see Cav and Wiggins wanting to say 'doper' when Vino won. It took a lot of strength not say it.

That race was the funniest thing I'd seen all year. Dope gone wrong. Went to their heads.

Vino making a mockery out of the peloton's 2008 agreement to go from full-throttle to bandwidth doping.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The best thing about Vino winning at the Olympics was Pat McQuaid's face.

 

[thehog]

Vino making a mockery out of the peloton's 2008 agreement to go from full-throttle to bandwidth doping.

"Bandwidth doping" love it.

Yes with doping, team tactics become easy; "Brad, Froome-Dawg, Miller-Time you guys ride on the front for 247km at 460w all day. With 1km to go Bernie from Austria will you lead Cav out and Mark with 300m you starting sprinting, got it?"


Easy.

Vino fought the only way he could. And well done to him.

Pat had already invited himself to the BC/Sky gold medal celebration party.

A black comedy, if you will.

 

[Joachim]

The best thing about Vino winning at the Olympics was Pat McQuaid's face.

...and Floyd landis's Tweets.

 

[The Hitch]

The hypocrisy during BBC's coverage of the Olympics was horrendous. Openly discussing whether certain winners were doping, whereas others were seemingly above suspicion. So forgive me for seeking a little entertainment in the prospect of a Gatlin win. Might I also refer you to the hundreds of "suck on that haters!" posts in the Olympic RR thread as Vino took gold.

lol yeah i remember.

Also as to Vino on box hill the loudest cheer of the day came when the commentator announced on the last lap that Millar was taking a turn.

But there was a loud boo when the commentator announced that twas Vino who attacked with Uran.

And then the daily mail headline the next day was that a nobody from kazakhstan beat Cav. (though thats not about doping).

...and Floyd landis's Tweets.

What did he say?

 

[Joachim]

Yep, UK media are embarrasing when it comes to sports that they really know nothing about or have no real interest in.

(which is pretty much all of them except football, rugby, cricket and Forumla 1)

l
What did he say?

Over several days...

I'd rather kill myself with the dull end of a spoon than watch the #Olympic horrorshow of hypocrisy, lies and deceipt.

That is the perfect ****ing result for the last Olympic road race!

If Vino said "it's a victory for clean cycling" he'd be my new hero.

...alternatively, if he said 'f@@k every single one of you motherf@@kers' that would also do it.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Well, i'll gently agree to disagree - Armstrong was clearly a talented rider of classic distances - even then doping - but he showed precious little pre cancer to suggest GC ability, never mind unheard of dominance. Nobody saw Armstrong win the Worlds and thought, that boy's gonna destroy Le Tour.

Even more so (less so?) for Wiggins.

 

[bianchigirl]

A trackie who was given the best set up possible to win prologues & couldn't manage that? Obvious GT winner...

 

[Joachim]

Ahhh..that was Brailsford's fault for giving him the 'track-specific' dope that only works on the track. Team GB track team success (from nowhere!!) can only be attributable to doping.

He's obviously giving him the road-specific stuff now.

 

[martinvickers]

We learned in the last couple of years sports like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yepb3zqzcjQ
are full of dope, so, what exactly is your point?

what's yours?

 

[martinvickers]

Even more so (less so?) for Wiggins.

a single TdF, even as part of a great year, is hardly dominance - and given the luck he also had - Schleck injured, Evans sick, Ryder crashed, Berti banned, Froome Tamed - hardly comparable to 7 successive crushing tours in the heart of the EPO era, is it?

As for GC caliber - entirely depends if you accept that he only 'really' rode for the road from 2009 on - in which case you'd have to say, 2010 aside, a solid record of improvement.

 

[martinvickers]

But as was posted in the Olympics thread at the time (Hitch drawing the most attention to it), the same commentators as were crapping on Taoufik Makhloufi's every move, straight-up accusing him of doping even in the heats and repeating their accusations in the final, were joyously celebrating as Christine Ohuruogu, somebody who has been pinged for whereabouts violations, ran under 50 seconds for the 400m. She has done this three times in her entire life. One World Championships final and two Olympic finals. Why does Ohuruogu justify applause and celebration when Makhloufi earns ridicule and snide accusations? Sure, Makhloufi might have looked suspicious, but why pick on the Algerian comparative no-name? He won the 800m the previous two years at the All-Africa games, so he had some kind of pedrigree prior to becoming a world beater, he's not a sudden transformer à la Chris Froome.

Well, as I watch Ohurougu on RTÉ, you're asking the wrong person - but broadly speaking? I agree - i don't trust Ohurougu either.

Which doesn't make a button of difference to my point. Fellow Athletes seem confident that Makhloufi is on the juice. MY point is not about what I think, but what those inside the sport think.

 

[martinvickers]

Im not saying i have evidence that Tyson gay is doping. Im asking, since you hold him up as a standard bearer of clean sport, how you explain him missing a sub 9.7 time by a hairs breadth, when Ben Johnson, Maurice Greene and Justin Gatlin and Tim Montgomery could all only manage 9.79.

Put simply - he has had a longer curve of improvement, and has made far greater efforts to SHOW he's clean - whereas all the others, Greene apart, have been proven to have doped, and multiple times. As for Greene, as I said, the private letter from boldon was pretty clear what he had learned.

so the answer I come to, apart from faster tracks and the like is simple - he's much better than them.

You said Bolt was a freak of nature?

So Gay is also a freak of nature? No, but he's a world class athlete.

and Asafa Powell too?
And maybe Blake?

Neither - they seem to fit the classic Johnson physique, and it's matter of concern

As for why dont i stop watching sport if i believe there is doping going on - wtf I like the sport, i like watching it and cheering for guys i like? Why on earth would i give it up?

In that case, what's the point cheering for cheats and liars? and why get so upset with Sky and wiggins if they are all at it, and you don't care?

 

[BroDeal]

A trackie who was given the best set up possible to win prologues & couldn't manage that? Obvious GT winner...

Reminds me of 2009, P-N I think. Perfect short time trial for Wiggins, just off his success on the track in 2008. He trained specifically for it, making it a major season goal. Contador beats him and Wiggins is practically crying he is so upset. Coincidently enough, Wiggins magical transformation started shortly afterward. It makes one suspect that was the breaking point where Wiggins decided, "If you cannot beat them then join them." He then weaseled out of his Garmin contract as fast as he could.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

what's yours?

You ask why someone would follow a sport which is full of dope, I meant to make clear that almost every sport has a serious doping problem Martin, nothing more or less.

 

[thehog]

Reminds me of 2009, P-N I think. Perfect short time trial for Wiggins, just off his success on the track in 2008. Contador beats him and Wiggins is practically crying he is so upset. Coincidently enough, Wiggins magical transformation started shortly afterward. It makes one suspect that was the breaking point where Wiggins decided, "If you cannot beat them then join them."

Wiggins that day eluded that Contador was doping and made statements as such. So yes your assessment is scarily true.

 

[martinvickers]

The hypocrisy during BBC's coverage of the Olympics was horrendous. Openly discussing whether certain winners were doping, whereas others were seemingly above suspicion. So forgive me for seeking a little entertainment in the prospect of a Gatlin win. Might I also refer you to the hundreds of "suck on that haters!" posts in the Olympic RR thread as Vino took gold.



To turn that around - why do you watch sport?

Because sport occasionally dares to tell stories, that makers of fiction would never have the courage to, and gets away with it, because it's true. Which, on some level, is why doping is sickening to me; it robs sport of the only thing that makes it worthwhile - its truth.

If I want to watch fake sport, I may as well watch WWE - at least there is an honesty in the sham, there, and you occasionally get models to look at.

Sham sport, doped sport, or fixed sport for that matter, is meaningless. It's literally pointless to a spectator. Or at least to me.

Sometimes I watch sport to see the beauty of a genius - Federer in his pomp or Ballesteros - i don't care if they win so easily it renders it boring, because I can marvel at what some few humans can do. But if what they do is down to doping, it's meaningless. Say a doped up human can drive a golf ball 500m? so what, a cannon could drive it miles! It only makes if iit's simply the person, testing the limit of what we as an animal can do.

Sometimes I watch it for the excitement of the narrative. Ivanisevich v Rafter, Grainger's gold, Munster & the All blacks - flawed human beings, in moments of inspiration, attempting to reach beyond themselves.

Occasionally genius and narrative meet - Meares v Pendleton, McEnroe v Borg,

And doping robs all that of meaning. It is an inherent admission of inferiority by a person who should be striving, just this once, to be superior.

On some basic level, all Lance's doping added up to LA saying "I'm not good enough to win mano v mano - and I don't have the humility to accept it, or the courage to fight to overcome it - instead i'll lie about it - because appearing superior, gaining the rewards of superioroty, are more important than actually being superior". That's not sport. It's the opposite of sport.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In that case, what's the point cheering for cheats and liars? and why get so upset with Sky and wiggins if they are all at it, and you don't care?

Most of those cheats and liars haven't set themselves up on the moral high ground claiming to be the antidote to it, so most don't need to be pilloried for their hypocrisy.

Also, we fans watch to be entertained, and so if the sport is being deliberately engineered to minimise the entertainment, then you can see how fans would be disillusioned. Formula 1 fans switched off in their droves from 2001-4 when the basic formula of a race was "the lights go off, there's a bit of a crash on lap 1, then they all follow Michael Schumacher for an hour and a half".

Reminds me of 2009, P-N I think. Perfect short time trial for Wiggins, just off his success on the track in 2008. He trained specifically for it, making it a major season goal. Contador beats him and Wiggins is practically crying he is so upset. Coincidently enough, Wiggins magical transformation started shortly afterward. It makes one suspect that was the breaking point where Wiggins decided, "If you cannot beat them then join them." He then weaseled out of his Garmin contract as fast as he could.

The weirdest thing with that 2009 season was at Eneco. For starters I really don't know why he was in that race anyway, you'd have thought he'd have earnt himself a bit of a rest after doing the Giro and Tour to their conclusion (just missing out on a stage win at the end of the Giro due to weather, and coming 4th in the Tour. In fact, in stage 5 of that Giro, on the long but gradual and fairly safe climb to Alpe di Siusi, David Harmon nearly had a coronary at the sight of Wiggins clinging on to the back of the front group as Cunego and Garzelli were dropped. Cute now, in retrospect), but there he was. In the time trial, he posted the best time at the intermediate, and it was by a fairly significant margin. But he rode flat out most of the way, then somewhere near the finish (I don't know where it was, reports seemed to vary) he just stopped and climbed off the bike. Very strange. I don't know if maybe he had a mechanical and just decided to give up since the win was away from him (foreshadowing the Worlds that year of course), but from the reports it just seemed like he just stopped out of nowhere.

 

[martinvickers]

You ask why someone would follow a sport which is full of dope, I meant to make clear that almost every sport has a serious doping problem Martin, nothing more or less.

Well, I don't really believe that's true - if by serious you mean clean athletes can't compete in any of the sports. Cycling, possibly track & field, swimming I grant you...but i doubt, for example, that table tennis has a SERIOUS doping problem...

 

[martinvickers]

Most of those cheats and liars haven't set themselves up on the moral high ground claiming to be the antidote to it, so most don't need to be pilloried for their hypocrisy.

All the teams, bar Garmin, to some extent do that. Sky just happen to have won a lot this year.

Also, we fans watch to be entertained, and so if the sport is being deliberately engineered to minimise the entertainment, then you can see how fans would be disillusioned. Formula 1 fans switched off in their droves from 2001-4 when the basic formula of a race was "the lights go off, there's a bit of a crash on lap 1, then they all follow Michael Schumacher for an hour and a half".

So, in effect, it's Sky's boringness that offends, and the doping stuff is just a way to attack a team people are not entertained by?

'cos it comes across as " we want EXCITING doped teams, Dammit!!"

 

[will10]

The weirdest thing with that 2009 season was at Eneco. For starters I really don't know why he was in that race anyway, you'd have thought he'd have earnt himself a bit of a rest after doing the Giro and Tour to their conclusion (just missing out on a stage win at the end of the Giro due to weather, and coming 4th in the Tour. In fact, in stage 5 of that Giro, on the long but gradual and fairly safe climb to Alpe di Siusi, David Harmon nearly had a coronary at the sight of Wiggins clinging on to the back of the front group as Cunego and Garzelli were dropped. Cute now, in retrospect), but there he was. In the time trial, he posted the best time at the intermediate, and it was by a fairly significant margin. But he rode flat out most of the way, then somewhere near the finish (I don't know where it was, reports seemed to vary) he just stopped and climbed off the bike. Very strange. I don't know if maybe he had a mechanical and just decided to give up since the win was away from him (foreshadowing the Worlds that year of course), but from the reports it just seemed like he just stopped out of nowhere.

I remember at the time there were some very juicy conspiracy theories flying about regarding what happened - my favourite being that Bradley realised how well he was going and chose to DNF to keep his cards close to his chest with the World ITT coming up, like he didn't want to alert Cancellara to how great his form was. Kudos to whoever conjured that one up!.

 

[martinvickers]

"Bandwidth doping" love it.

Yes with doping, team tactics become easy; "Brad, Froome-Dawg, Miller-Time you guys ride on the front for 247km at 460w all day. With 1km to go Bernie from Austria will you lead Cav out and Mark with 300m you starting sprinting, got it?"


Easy.

Vino fought the only way he could. And well done to him.

Pat had already invited himself to the BC/Sky gold medal celebration party.

A black comedy, if you will.

Well, I was ****ed that a doper with little shame for past transgressions won. But I certainly wasn't ****ed at his tactics, which were spot on - no problem with that at all.

And anything that annoys Pat si at least a silver lining.