The "Smash-and-Grab" Doper Thread

[iceblink]

The obsession with so many posters trying to shoehorn Froome and Team Sky into this conversation just shows what a crap anti-anglo forum this is. Probably same people booing Pidcock's brilliant gold medal at the Olympics mountain biking today.

You've got the mutants back after a ten-year gap, just like the fans deserve and seem to love, seems big money boring tactics isn't good enough for cycling, enjoy the mutants...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Covi flew close to the sun then faded very quickly.

Covi just seems like the typical young Italian who rode for Colpack in the u23 ranks to me.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Jean-Christophe Péraud had other decent results and also got lucky with riders crashing out, but his Tour podium in 2014 and level in that race were still pretty big outliers. Christophe Rinero tops him though. He would obviously not have finished 4th in 1998, if it hadn't been for the Festina Affair, and the fact that Cofidis (allegedly) had a medical advantage over some teams during the rest of the race. If you look at his results after that race, you get the feeling that a massively doped up Jérémy Roy or maybe even a monkey in a Cofidis kit could have achieved the same in 1998.

 

[Squire]

The existence of smash-and-grabbers seems like a good counter argument to the "they all are doing it anyway so nothing to see" theories/justifications for long-term-grabbers armstrong/froome/vinge/pogi. If seemingly as a nobody you can decide to crank it up and smash, the big mass of the peloton obviously is not all in at most times.

Most of the good examples brought forward in this thread did very little of note apart from their presumed 'smash-and-grab' moment(s) though. For an example of what you could do without doping in the days of pretty heavy juicing, look at Tyler Hamilton's 2001 Tour de France. He wasn't allowed in on the program that year, according to his book. Looking at him being a somewhat useful domestique (but still a nobody in the grand scheme of things) makes you think that in the presumably cleaner period around 2008, you could easily be a professional cyclist without doping even if we presume that most semi-successful guys were still 'on it' somehow.

 

[Red Rick]

Esteban Chaves in 2016 deserves a shout

 

[Nick2413]

Jay Vine isn’t too bad when he doesn’t crash out but ‘22 Vuelta was still bombastic.

 

[gunara]

The real blobloblo (pronounced differently, yeah), Marcin Bialoblocki and his 2015 season. Yes he's a specialist, yes it's not a crazy stacked field, but did he really have to win that Pologne TT?

 

[ppanther92]

The Smash-and-Grab Doper languishes in back-of-the-peloton mediocrity for his entire career until he viciously and suddenly strikes with outrageous audacity, taking home a couple of shock victories out of nowhere before retreating back into the obscurity from whence he came, skillfully avoiding the limp arm of the law every step of the way.

John Tiernan Locke all the way. Never showed anything noteworthy on CT level until H2 2011. Then had an awesome 2012. Went to Sky in 2013 and with entering the biological passport regime was literally unable to finish most races. And that is on a team that anyway has not a good reputation.

Bonus points: actually a convicted doper (but not in-race). The only official case on Team Sky?

 

[will-10]

Covi flew close to the sun then faded very quickly.

he's 25 and barely won anything, not sure he even makes the third tier on this thread

 

[MADRAZO]

Jose Antonio Pecharroman definetly deserves a mention in this tread. Seemed to be a fairly mediocre rider for years, until he in june 2003 suddenly became the best climber in the world, crushing Heras and also suddenly winning time trials, and then went right back to being mediocre again the rest of his career. He did eventually get banned, following Operation Puero I think, which stopped his career, but first 4 years after his crazy june of 2003.

 

[hrotha]

Jose Antonio Pecharroman definetly deserves a mention in this tread. Seemed to be a fairly mediocre rider for years, until he in june 2003 suddenly became the best climber in the world, crushing Heras and also suddenly winning time trials, and then went right back to being mediocre again the rest of his career. He did eventually get banned, following Operation Puero I think, which stopped his career, but first 4 years after his crazy june of 2003.

I always had a soft spot for Pecharromán because he ripped off Lefevere. Working class hero if you ask me

 

[Red Rick]

Majka becoming a top 3 climber in the 2014 TdF after Contador and Froome had crashed out.

 

[ppanther92]

Jose Antonio Pecharroman definetly deserves a mention in this tread. Seemed to be a fairly mediocre rider for years, until he in june 2003 suddenly became the best climber in the world, crushing Heras and also suddenly winning time trials, and then went right back to being mediocre again the rest of his career. He did eventually get banned, following Operation Puero I think, which stopped his career, but first 4 years after his crazy june of 2003.

But they took him off the good stuff before the Vuelta

 

[yaco]

The real blobloblo (pronounced differently, yeah), Marcin Bialoblocki and his 2015 season. Yes he's a specialist, yes it's not a crazy stacked field, but did he really have to win that Pologne TT?

My theory with the Bialobocki and Folifirov ITT was that the timing mechanisms failed.

 

[Tim Cahill]

On the borderline because he wasn't a bad rider but in terms of punching above their weight massively, the streets will never forget John Gadret podiumming a GT because of Contador's ban after coming 26th in Romandie a mere week before it started.

In a similar 'almost but not quite' vein, Big Hugh's Vuelta podium, I'll never forget him dropping Kuss, Roglic and Carapaz in the big ring on top of Angliru looking absolutely outrageous on the bike.

 

[BullsFan22]

Cyril Dessel and Thomas Voeckler

 

[will-10]

The Foliforov one reminded me of Vaughters' record on Mont Ventoux TT: he smoked a high-octane top 10 and was never at that level before or after. I'm not sure it quite counts for the thread but a fun one considering all that followed.

Results Dauphiné Libéré 1999 - Stage 3. Bédoin - Le Mont-Ventoux I.T.T. - CyclingRanking.com

Results of he cycling race Dauphiné Libéré Stage 3. Bédoin - Le Mont-Ventoux I.T.T. in 1999 won by Jonathan Vaughters before Alexandre Vinokourov and Wladimir Belli.

www.cyclingranking.com

His own take: https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/jv-talks-sort-of.18079/post-1129822

 

[Mayomaniac]

Jose Antonio Pecharroman definetly deserves a mention in this tread. Seemed to be a fairly mediocre rider for years, until he in june 2003 suddenly became the best climber in the world, crushing Heras and also suddenly winning time trials, and then went right back to being mediocre again the rest of his career. He did eventually get banned, following Operation Puero I think, which stopped his career, but first 4 years after his crazy june of 2003.

Back in the early 2000s you pretty much had a new monster challenging Heras during the Vuelta every year.

 

[ciranda]

Rumsas was good for like ten years so no

Foliforov was possibly the most gifted individual ever for riding uphill fast, physically it was like if you wanted to construct a human to ride steep mountains he would be the blueprint, got lost somehow with lack of self confidence and no teams believed in him

if I was a ds I would search for Alexander and give him a contract, he's not even old

Mark Padun also not a good example, he was great for years and years in Italy but it can be so tough if you have a weight problem + he's from Donetsk and that has to be tough too

Majka becoming a top 3 climber in the 2014 TdF after Contador and Froome had crashed out.

Nicolas Roche also for this Saxo era

 

[hrotha]

But they took him off the good stuff before the Vuelta

Nah that's the beauty of it, he probably took himself off the sauce because he had already secured a juicy contract at a top team and why jeopardize that? Brilliant move

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Back in the early 2000s you pretty much had a new monster challenging Heras during the Vuelta every year.

Good point! Gonzales, Nozal, Perez then Menchov. The third one would be a huge candidate here (given his thermonuclear uphill level making Heras look like a pedestrian) but he got busted immediately.

25-yo Nozal had a great Vuelta, crushing 2 TTs, holding up well untill the last uphill TT. He was almost named Indurain successor by some. He never reached similar heights again. Fitting here. He got busted but much later.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Majka becoming a top 3 climber in the 2014 TdF after Contador and Froome had crashed out.

Of course Majka had a very obvious peak but he was a top level rider for a decade. You can't call him a smash and grab.

You cannot put him in the same category as Zaugh, padun, Foleforov.

I will say though that tinkov has to be one of the most underrated doped teams, really high level programme but never got the attention like sky, Astana, Visma, etc etc. Majka, sagan, krezigeur, roche, that old Australian guy, all flying to the moon

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Anyway, we need to have serious discussions about a certain Belge and his 2012 giro d'Italia.

A tubby guy with a beard winning at 2700m at the stelvio to take a giro podium and spend the rest of his carrier doing breakaways to be on tv

 

[proffate]

Anyway, we need to have serious discussions about a certain Belge and his 2012 giro d'Italia.

A tubby guy with a beard winning at 2700m at the stelvio to take a giro podium and spend the rest of his carrier doing breakaways to be on tv

wasnt that stage win and Giro podium also from a breakaway? Not quite a Padun move.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Back in the early 2000s you pretty much had a new monster challenging Heras during the Vuelta every year.

Yeah lmao, I have been rewatching a ton of Vueltas lately. Who's the most blatant out of Santí Perez, Aitor Gonzales, Angel Casero, Oscar Sevilla and Isidro Nozal? Nozal was actually really good in 2004 as well, go look at the climb up to Aitana, lmao. Big ring just smoking Mancebo, Valverde and Sastre of the back at 7% and then attacking later to finish a couple of seconds behind mythical Heras who he had pulled for whole climb, lol. Seriously, go watch the climb, ridicolous scenes from big Nozal. That reminds me of another spanish rider, this time a guy I literally had never heard about before: Jorge Ferrio. Had to look him up, and he doesn't really qualify I think, but he climbed wonderfully in that particular race.

Anyways, I'll nominate both Santí Perez and Isidro Nozal. Especially Santí, Roberto Heras could not believe what he was just witnessing in that 2nd part of the race. Everybody thought it would be Valverde and maybe Mancebo challenging him, and then at some point Santi just began to smash it every time the road went uphill from the midpoint of the race. That ITT up to Sierra Nevada was a thing of beauty, and so was his win over Monachil.