The "Smash-and-Grab" Doper Thread

[Squire]

The existence of smash-and-grabbers seems like a good counter argument to the "they all are doing it anyway so nothing to see" theories/justifications for long-term-grabbers armstrong/froome/vinge/pogi. If seemingly as a nobody you can decide to crank it up and smash, the big mass of the peloton obviously is not all in at most times.

Most of the good examples brought forward in this thread did very little of note apart from their presumed 'smash-and-grab' moment(s) though. For an example of what you could do without doping in the days of pretty heavy juicing, look at Tyler Hamilton's 2001 Tour de France. He wasn't allowed in on the program that year, according to his book. Looking at him being a somewhat useful domestique (but still a nobody in the grand scheme of things) makes you think that in the presumably cleaner period around 2008, you could easily be a professional cyclist without doping even if we presume that most semi-successful guys were still 'on it' somehow.

 

[Nick2413]

Jay Vine isn’t too bad when he doesn’t crash out but ‘22 Vuelta was still bombastic.

 

[gunara]

The real blobloblo (pronounced differently, yeah), Marcin Bialoblocki and his 2015 season. Yes he's a specialist, yes it's not a crazy stacked field, but did he really have to win that Pologne TT?

 

[ppanther92]

The Smash-and-Grab Doper languishes in back-of-the-peloton mediocrity for his entire career until he viciously and suddenly strikes with outrageous audacity, taking home a couple of shock victories out of nowhere before retreating back into the obscurity from whence he came, skillfully avoiding the limp arm of the law every step of the way.

John Tiernan Locke all the way. Never showed anything noteworthy on CT level until H2 2011. Then had an awesome 2012. Went to Sky in 2013 and with entering the biological passport regime was literally unable to finish most races. And that is on a team that anyway has not a good reputation.

Bonus points: actually a convicted doper (but not in-race). The only official case on Team Sky?

 

[will-10]

Covi flew close to the sun then faded very quickly.

he's 25 and barely won anything, not sure he even makes the third tier on this thread

 

[MADRAZO]

Jose Antonio Pecharroman definetly deserves a mention in this tread. Seemed to be a fairly mediocre rider for years, until he in june 2003 suddenly became the best climber in the world, crushing Heras and also suddenly winning time trials, and then went right back to being mediocre again the rest of his career. He did eventually get banned, following Operation Puero I think, which stopped his career, but first 4 years after his crazy june of 2003.

 

[hrotha]

Jose Antonio Pecharroman definetly deserves a mention in this tread. Seemed to be a fairly mediocre rider for years, until he in june 2003 suddenly became the best climber in the world, crushing Heras and also suddenly winning time trials, and then went right back to being mediocre again the rest of his career. He did eventually get banned, following Operation Puero I think, which stopped his career, but first 4 years after his crazy june of 2003.

I always had a soft spot for Pecharromán because he ripped off Lefevere. Working class hero if you ask me

 

[ppanther92]

Jose Antonio Pecharroman definetly deserves a mention in this tread. Seemed to be a fairly mediocre rider for years, until he in june 2003 suddenly became the best climber in the world, crushing Heras and also suddenly winning time trials, and then went right back to being mediocre again the rest of his career. He did eventually get banned, following Operation Puero I think, which stopped his career, but first 4 years after his crazy june of 2003.

But they took him off the good stuff before the Vuelta

 

[yaco]

The real blobloblo (pronounced differently, yeah), Marcin Bialoblocki and his 2015 season. Yes he's a specialist, yes it's not a crazy stacked field, but did he really have to win that Pologne TT?

My theory with the Bialobocki and Folifirov ITT was that the timing mechanisms failed.

 

[Tim Cahill]

On the borderline because he wasn't a bad rider but in terms of punching above their weight massively, the streets will never forget John Gadret podiumming a GT because of Contador's ban after coming 26th in Romandie a mere week before it started.

In a similar 'almost but not quite' vein, Big Hugh's Vuelta podium, I'll never forget him dropping Kuss, Roglic and Carapaz in the big ring on top of Angliru looking absolutely outrageous on the bike.

 

[BullsFan22]

Cyril Dessel and Thomas Voeckler

 

[will-10]

The Foliforov one reminded me of Vaughters' record on Mont Ventoux TT: he smoked a high-octane top 10 and was never at that level before or after. I'm not sure it quite counts for the thread but a fun one considering all that followed.

Results Dauphiné Libéré 1999 - Stage 3. Bédoin - Le Mont-Ventoux I.T.T. - CyclingRanking.com

Results of he cycling race Dauphiné Libéré Stage 3. Bédoin - Le Mont-Ventoux I.T.T. in 1999 won by Jonathan Vaughters before Alexandre Vinokourov and Wladimir Belli.

www.cyclingranking.com

His own take: https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/jv-talks-sort-of.18079/post-1129822

 

[Mayomaniac]

Jose Antonio Pecharroman definetly deserves a mention in this tread. Seemed to be a fairly mediocre rider for years, until he in june 2003 suddenly became the best climber in the world, crushing Heras and also suddenly winning time trials, and then went right back to being mediocre again the rest of his career. He did eventually get banned, following Operation Puero I think, which stopped his career, but first 4 years after his crazy june of 2003.

Back in the early 2000s you pretty much had a new monster challenging Heras during the Vuelta every year.

 

[ciranda]

Rumsas was good for like ten years so no

Foliforov was possibly the most gifted individual ever for riding uphill fast, physically it was like if you wanted to construct a human to ride steep mountains he would be the blueprint, got lost somehow with lack of self confidence and no teams believed in him

if I was a ds I would search for Alexander and give him a contract, he's not even old

Mark Padun also not a good example, he was great for years and years in Italy but it can be so tough if you have a weight problem + he's from Donetsk and that has to be tough too

Majka becoming a top 3 climber in the 2014 TdF after Contador and Froome had crashed out.

Nicolas Roche also for this Saxo era

 

[hrotha]

But they took him off the good stuff before the Vuelta

Nah that's the beauty of it, he probably took himself off the sauce because he had already secured a juicy contract at a top team and why jeopardize that? Brilliant move

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Back in the early 2000s you pretty much had a new monster challenging Heras during the Vuelta every year.

Good point! Gonzales, Nozal, Perez then Menchov. The third one would be a huge candidate here (given his thermonuclear uphill level making Heras look like a pedestrian) but he got busted immediately.

25-yo Nozal had a great Vuelta, crushing 2 TTs, holding up well untill the last uphill TT. He was almost named Indurain successor by some. He never reached similar heights again. Fitting here. He got busted but much later.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Majka becoming a top 3 climber in the 2014 TdF after Contador and Froome had crashed out.

Of course Majka had a very obvious peak but he was a top level rider for a decade. You can't call him a smash and grab.

You cannot put him in the same category as Zaugh, padun, Foleforov.

I will say though that tinkov has to be one of the most underrated doped teams, really high level programme but never got the attention like sky, Astana, Visma, etc etc. Majka, sagan, krezigeur, roche, that old Australian guy, all flying to the moon

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Anyway, we need to have serious discussions about a certain Belge and his 2012 giro d'Italia.

A tubby guy with a beard winning at 2700m at the stelvio to take a giro podium and spend the rest of his carrier doing breakaways to be on tv

 

[proffate]

Anyway, we need to have serious discussions about a certain Belge and his 2012 giro d'Italia.

A tubby guy with a beard winning at 2700m at the stelvio to take a giro podium and spend the rest of his carrier doing breakaways to be on tv

wasnt that stage win and Giro podium also from a breakaway? Not quite a Padun move.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Back in the early 2000s you pretty much had a new monster challenging Heras during the Vuelta every year.

Yeah lmao, I have been rewatching a ton of Vueltas lately. Who's the most blatant out of Santí Perez, Aitor Gonzales, Angel Casero, Oscar Sevilla and Isidro Nozal? Nozal was actually really good in 2004 as well, go look at the climb up to Aitana, lmao. Big ring just smoking Mancebo, Valverde and Sastre of the back at 7% and then attacking later to finish a couple of seconds behind mythical Heras who he had pulled for whole climb, lol. Seriously, go watch the climb, ridicolous scenes from big Nozal. That reminds me of another spanish rider, this time a guy I literally had never heard about before: Jorge Ferrio. Had to look him up, and he doesn't really qualify I think, but he climbed wonderfully in that particular race.

Anyways, I'll nominate both Santí Perez and Isidro Nozal. Especially Santí, Roberto Heras could not believe what he was just witnessing in that 2nd part of the race. Everybody thought it would be Valverde and maybe Mancebo challenging him, and then at some point Santi just began to smash it every time the road went uphill from the midpoint of the race. That ITT up to Sierra Nevada was a thing of beauty, and so was his win over Monachil.

 

[Nomad]

25-yo Nozal had a great Vuelta, crushing 2 TTs, holding up well untill the last uphill TT. He was almost named Indurain successor by some. He never reached similar heights again. Fitting here. He got busted but much later.

Nozal had to have been a super-responder to 02-vector doping. Giving Heras a run for his money finishing only 28 seconds behind arguably one of the best Spanish climbers ever - and a career doper himself! The crazy world of exceptional responders to high-octane doping. Lol.

Isidro Nozal . Dopeology

Information page about the team, product and incident relationships of Isidro Nozal according to published sources

www.dopeology.org

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah lmao, I have been rewatching a ton of Vueltas lately. Who's the most blatant out of Santí Perez, Aitor Gonzales, Angel Casero, Oscar Sevilla and Isidro Nozal? Nozal was actually really good in 2004 as well, go look at the climb up to Aitana, lmao. Big ring just smoking Mancebo, Valverde and Sastre of the back at 7% and then attacking later to finish a couple of seconds behind mythical Heras who he had pulled for whole climb, lol. Seriously, go watch the climb, ridicolous scenes from big Nozal. That reminds me of another spanish rider, this time a guy I literally had never heard about before: Jorge Ferrio. Had to look him up, and he doesn't really qualify I think, but he climbed wonderfully in that particular race.

Anyways, I'll nominate both Santí Perez and Isidro Nozal. Especially Santí, Roberto Heras could not believe what he was just witnessing in that 2nd part of the race. Everybody thought it would be Valverde and maybe Mancebo challenging him, and then at some point Santi just began to smash it every time the road went uphill from the midpoint of the race. That ITT up to Sierra Nevada was a thing of beauty, and so was his win over Monachil.

Santí should go in with the Riccòs and Kohls for not being smart enough though, which goes against him. Nozal definitely belongs because it took several years before he was busted and he went back to being mediocre for quite a while too - more than the likes of Alarcón or David Belda who suddenly got good late in their career and went wild for 2-3 years until they were caught.

Danilo Celano was another of the "as soon as he has to be biopass-compliant he starts to be terrible" riders, like Tiernan-Locke or (to a lesser extent) Zoidl, but could count.

Vladimir Karpets' 2007 season is something he coasted on for about half a decade, getting taken seriously as a potential leader for the original Katyusha lineup. It was something to behold, winning Catalunya and Suisse and doing a solid if unspectacular GC at both the Tour and Vuelta. While he got a couple more top 15s on GCs as a team leader. The mitigating factor there is that being on the post-Puerto Caisse d'Épargne team where a few riders had had to be jettisoned or were kept off the road, he got more opportunities than he otherwise would, similar to the 2011 Movistar team where the suspension of Valverde along with the tragic situations around Tondó and Soler meant that guys like Rojas and Ventoso got to ride far more races with full support than they otherwise would have done.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Santí should go in with the Riccòs and Kohls for not being smart enough though, which goes against him. Nozal definitely belongs because it took several years before he was busted and he went back to being mediocre for quite a while too - more than the likes of Alarcón or David Belda who suddenly got good late in their career and went wild for 2-3 years until they were caught.

Danilo Celano was another of the "as soon as he has to be biopass-compliant he starts to be terrible" riders, like Tiernan-Locke or (to a lesser extent) Zoidl, but could count.

Vladimir Karpets' 2007 season is something he coasted on for about half a decade, getting taken seriously as a potential leader for the original Katyusha lineup. It was something to behold, winning Catalunya and Suisse and doing a solid if unspectacular GC at both the Tour and Vuelta. While he got a couple more top 15s on GCs as a team leader. The mitigating factor there is that being on the post-Puerto Caisse d'Épargne team where a few riders had had to be jettisoned or were kept off the road, he got more opportunities than he otherwise would, similar to the 2011 Movistar team where the suspension of Valverde along with the tragic situations around Tondó and Soler meant that guys like Rojas and Ventoso got to ride far more races with full support than they otherwise would have done.

Dani Diaz is another guy who was a worldbeater without the bio-passport, but as soon as he had to deal with it he was gone (at least he was smarter than the other Funic guys and didn't get busted).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Santí should go in with the Riccòs and Kohls for not being smart enough though, which goes against him. Nozal definitely belongs because it took several years before he was busted and he went back to being mediocre for quite a while too - more than the likes of Alarcón or David Belda who suddenly got good late in their career and went wild for 2-3 years until they were caught.

Danilo Celano was another of the "as soon as he has to be biopass-compliant he starts to be terrible" riders, like Tiernan-Locke or (to a lesser extent) Zoidl, but could count.

Vladimir Karpets' 2007 season is something he coasted on for about half a decade, getting taken seriously as a potential leader for the original Katyusha lineup. It was something to behold, winning Catalunya and Suisse and doing a solid if unspectacular GC at both the Tour and Vuelta. While he got a couple more top 15s on GCs as a team leader. The mitigating factor there is that being on the post-Puerto Caisse d'Épargne team where a few riders had had to be jettisoned or were kept off the road, he got more opportunities than he otherwise would, similar to the 2011 Movistar team where the suspension of Valverde along with the tragic situations around Tondó and Soler meant that guys like Rojas and Ventoso got to ride far more races with full support than they otherwise would have done.

On Karpets, wasn't that much to do with the thinned out field post Puerto as much as anything? Catalunya had a somewhat weird calender spot back in the day also, and just looking at the fields, they were not that impressive - especially in a period were much of the spanish scene got wiped.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Ill never forget having to google Rafa valls after finding out he was the winner of Tour of Oman and learning he was a 28 year old who had been a pro for 6 years.

Beat Valverde, Majka, Pinot, Nibali etc on green mountain that day