The "Smash-and-Grab" Doper Thread

[Samu Cuenca]

Papi Horner is clean, leave the smirking one-legged bandit out of this!

Does Ugrumov qualify, or was he too consistent throughout his career? True, he was already second in the 93 giro. But a mountain stage, an itt plus second overall in the 94 TDF has to count for something.

Ugrumov kept it going for a little longer than the likes of Berzin or Aitor González.

 

[Breh]

Schumacher winning both TT's in the 2008 Tour perhaps?
Or was he a renowned TT'er, I don't really remember.

The rest of his career was probably too high-profile anyway.

 

[proffate]

Hirschi kinda fits, no? Went nuts in the TDF at the age of 21 (in the year of no drug testing heh), on the TV every day, looks like the next world beater; earns 4 year deal with mega team (at the time, a long contract, and no doubt big money); retires to become the most prolific UCI points farmer you never see on TV again.

 

[meat puppet]

Ugrumov kept it going for a little longer than the likes of Berzin or Aitor González.

Yeah, fair point. I misremembered Berzin was older and had a long track career before the GT years. But it wasn't that long, after all.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yeah, fair point. I misremembered Berzin was older and had a long track career before the GT years. But it wasn't that long, after all.

Honestly, Berzin's 1996 season schedule was just insane, if you look at how little rest he got between races him failing in that Tour makes sense.

Does young Popovych fit the category? Never caught and a worldbeater at a young age, while riding for scumbag Olivano Locatelli.

 

[Nick2413]

Hirschi kinda fits, no? Went nuts in the TDF at the age of 21 (in the year of no drug testing heh), on the TV every day, looks like the next world beater; earns 4 year deal with mega team (at the time, a long contract, and no doubt big money); retires to become the most prolific UCI points farmer you never see on TV again.

The funny thing is that was probably UAE’s goal with him anyway. Those points ain’t gonna farm themselves.

 

[Squire]

Bonus points for doing it in one of the dirtiest Tours in recent memory.

Don't know the consensus these days, but previously the 2008 Tour (and that period in cycling in general) had some kind of reputation for being relatively cleaner than the years before and after. CERA test weeding out the CERA users, and perhaps a bit of uncertainty among the teams what they could or couldn't do under the blood passport that was introduced at the beginning of the year. Also it was just two years after Puerto. And the climbing times weren't stellar (Sastre on the Alpe was pretty good though). So if you look past the big number of people actually busted during and shortly after the Tour (which is pretty hard, I know!) it might not have been that dirty.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Jonathan Tiernan-Locke's iconic 2012 season for Endura would be up there if not for that damn biopassport, bit of an Aldi Froome who at 26 just seem to decide f*ck it.

Irony is he became immediately crap when he went to sky and got caught seemingly when he was off the gear.

 

[meat puppet]

Don't know the consensus these days, but previously the 2008 Tour (and that period in cycling in general) had some kind of reputation for being relatively cleaner than the years before and after. CERA test weeding out the CERA users, and perhaps a bit of uncertainty among the teams what they could or couldn't do under the blood passport that was introduced at the beginning of the year. Also it was just two years after Puerto. And the climbing times weren't stellar (Sastre on the Alpe was pretty good though). So if you look past the big number of people actually busted during and shortly after the Tour (which is pretty hard, I know!) it might not have been that dirty.

For what it's worth this has been my understanding, too.

Probably the powers that be drew the conclusion that no, if cleaner in reality means appearing dirtier, let's not go there. Didn't UCI wrestle testing back into its own hands the next year?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Also, 1995-1997 Enrico Zaina, the only guy who got faster after leaving 1994 Gewiss-Ballan...
2015-2016 Diego Rosa is one of the first riders that comes to my mind, was scary good when he was on, then he cashed out with a seven figure salary for 3 seasons at Sky (3.5M over 3 years) and took it easy.

 

[will-10]

Melchor Mauri probably has too good a palmares overall, but I always thought him whupping Big Mig in an ITT to win his Vuelta was in keeping with this sort of thread.

 

[zlev11]

Aitor Gonzalez, 2002 Vuelta

 

[MJR]

Yes, a Roubaix specialist. It's the one race he was perfectly suited for. Other than that Sunday in April every year, he mostly did lead-outs and domestique work on the flat. Being a Roubaix specialist doesn't mean you need to be the best in the world for that race. I would call Bert de Backer and Sebastien Turgot Roubaix specialists, too. My point is that Vansummeren's lucky tactical Roubaix win is not the first thing I think about when the conversation is about riders doping their way to big results and then not doing much before or since.

Heartily agree with all this.

Plus, a rider like him who tended to do pretty well in that race pulling off a lucky but well-earned victory is one of the reasons I love the sport. It would get boring pretty quickly if the same few hammered the competition and won 'em every year.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

For what it's worth this has been my understanding, too.

Probably the powers that be drew the conclusion that no, if cleaner in reality means appearing dirtier, let's not go there. Didn't UCI wrestle testing back into its own hands the next year?

Yes, but this was also affected by Lance coming back as well. The 2008 is the cleanest tour in living memory. The ones that didn't get the memo stood out like a sore thumb.

 

[proffate]

what happened with Carlos Betancur? Was there a drugs angle there or did he just become addicted to pie? Maybe Movistar just too toxic? Why do they keep hiring non-Spanish Spanish speakers and then treating them like crap

 

[Mr. 64%]

Many good suggestions, many good laughs at these memories of ridicule...
To me, there can only be one.

Rodolfo Massi.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

what happened with Carlos Betancur? Was there a drugs angle there or did he just become addicted to pie? Maybe Movistar just too toxic? Why do they keep hiring non-Spanish Spanish speakers and then treating them like crap

He was already off the rails before signing for Abarcá. He's more one of their cut price flyers on someone that might rebound, similar to Rujano or Antón, because the talent was there but the motivation wasn't.

 

[Ripper]

My pet theory regarding Papa Horner is that he rode paniagua his whole life but before Vuelta'13 he said to himself:
"The end is near so let's have coca-cola, no risk no glory!"
The best climber ever, all things considered.

Except, I'm pretty sure he didn't

 

[Ripper]

Raimondas Rumšas- a true smash and grab legend.

But he ended up getting sanctioned because wifey got caught, yes?

 

[Nomad]

His wife initially took the rap for the doping products found in their vehicle on the last day of the Tour telling authorities they were for her mother-in-law.

Rumsas then tested positive for rocket fuel in May, 2003, and a couple years later was charged with illegally importing drugs into France in reference to his wife's incident. Amazing, since those doping products were meant only for his mother. LOL!

Raimondas Rumšas - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[laarsland]

Covi flew close to the sun then faded very quickly.

 

[Cassirer]

The existence of smash-and-grabbers seems like a good counter argument to the "they all are doing it anyway so nothing to see" theories/justifications for long-term-grabbers armstrong/froome/vinge/pogi. If seemingly as a nobody you can decide to crank it up and smash, the big mass of the peloton obviously is not all in at most times.

 

[iceblink]

The obsession with so many posters trying to shoehorn Froome and Team Sky into this conversation just shows what a crap anti-anglo forum this is. Probably same people booing Pidcock's brilliant gold medal at the Olympics mountain biking today.

You've got the mutants back after a ten-year gap, just like the fans deserve and seem to love, seems big money boring tactics isn't good enough for cycling, enjoy the mutants...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Covi flew close to the sun then faded very quickly.

Covi just seems like the typical young Italian who rode for Colpack in the u23 ranks to me.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Jean-Christophe Péraud had other decent results and also got lucky with riders crashing out, but his Tour podium in 2014 and level in that race were still pretty big outliers. Christophe Rinero tops him though. He would obviously not have finished 4th in 1998, if it hadn't been for the Festina Affair, and the fact that Cofidis (allegedly) had a medical advantage over some teams during the rest of the race. If you look at his results after that race, you get the feeling that a massively doped up Jérémy Roy or maybe even a monkey in a Cofidis kit could have achieved the same in 1998.