"The stars of the Tour 2008 must tremble"

[Susan Westemeyer]

So the point of everything was what, exactly? Retest controls where they wouldn't find anything.

I would interpret that as meaning their intent was to see whether there was something there, as compared to an intent of finding something (whether it was there or not). In other words, going into it with an open mind.

Susan

 

[iainf72]

again there is no sound rationale to waste resources on testing astarloza a dead horse. this was not a research project. last year was different. very different. first they had an unreliable urine test for cera that was applied to several riders multiple times. then by the end of the tour they perfected the blood test for cera and netted kohl and schumacker. this is your explanation. labs don't waste their resources because some forum members desire so.

The AFLD identified the riders for retesting before MA tested positive, so as he was in the top 20 it's likely he's on the list. I don't think they'd consider it a waste of time or money.

The tests aren't perfect - People continue to use CERA which indicates the tests fail more often than they succeed.

 

[python]

The AFLD identified the riders for retesting before MA tested positive, so as he was in the top 20 it's likely he's on the list. I don't think they'd consider it a waste of time or money.

The tests aren't perfect - People continue to use CERA which indicates the tests fail more often than they succeed.

you can continue believing what you wish and continue seeing what was never published. obviously i prefer a different rationale and i explained it exhaustively.
waste is not the way labs treat their workload.

 

[Arnout]

astaloza admitted after his b positive. there is no defense there will be no trial. guilty as charged with an idiotic explanation. also why would french waste their time and stick their noses in the essentially spanish affair. coni they are not.

correction: he did not admit but his explanation is stupid.

There is a defense and there will be a trial. Wrong info mate.
Please note that I don't say anything about the contents of the defense.

Besides, again nothing, just like I expected and said yesterday or monday. We've now officially had 20 of these stories and none of them were true. I guess its a pity for some of you here, because I somehow get the feeling some members here are, instead of cyclingfans, sensationfans.

And now the only thing I hope is that for example Cancellara or anyone else who was mentioned by that stupid Kurierthing will sue them for defamation. That would be the only good thing that can come out of this soap, that the German and Austrian press finally stop writing about things they don't know about.

 

[python]

There is a defense and there will be a trial. Wrong info mate.
Please note that I don't say anything about the contents of the defense.

Besides, again nothing, just like I expected and said yesterday or monday. We've now officially had 20 of these stories and none of them were true. I guess its a pity for some of you here, because I somehow get the feeling some members here are, instead of cyclingfans, sensationfans.

And now the only thing I hope is that for example Cancellara or anyone else who was mentioned by that stupid Kurierthing will sue them for defamation. That would be the only good thing that can come out of this soap, that the German and Austrian press finally stop writing about things they don't know about.

then i wish you good luck because it's not on your side. don't forget to ask flandis for his expertise.

we know quite well that altitude tents are used by cheaters to mask their use of epo. they cheaters believe that the natural rbc production suppression from rhepo can be be countered by stimulation from altitude.
that worked before passport. no more. hence the futility of astarloza's defense. but if you're part of his team i hope you get paid.

 

[Arnout]

Read my second sentence.

Another thing I couldn't believe some were saying is that AFLD was wasting money for no positives. That's so stupid to say. They are there to prevent cyclists from using dope. When they don't find any, it means no cyclist used EPO. And if we can't believe negative tests (like many of you don't) why should we test any longer if we after all never can believe the sport?

 

[Mellow Velo]

The AFLD identified the riders for retesting before MA tested positive, so as he was in the top 20 it's likely he's on the list. I don't think they'd consider it a waste of time or money.

The tests aren't perfect - People continue to use CERA which indicates the tests fail more often than they succeed.

Maybe because he once was a favoured son of Ag2r?

 

[El Loto]

Please when they develop the HGH and Autologous transfusion test, and Hematide and Aicar or whatever they're called, can they collect a **** load of samples from 5 months, test them, release the results during the TdF, and see what happens. I miss the variety show aspect of cycling. Please Mr. Bordry, please!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I lost my bet, no one is caught. BroDeal is the winner, saying he´d be surprised if anyone is caught.

So the TdF 2008 is official now. Nothing else will come. It was a good and also a bad year for cycling by catching some big cheaters (DiLuca, Astarloza, Colom and Bosisio), but also leaving some free (AC Contadoper, Epo-Lance and Valv-Piti) ...

 

[350Watts]

This whole thing falls under "if you have something to say speak up, if you don't keep your mouth shut".

I applaud AFLD's efforts to clean up the sport but going to the press every time that they test a sample or samples is stupid. Now they look kind of silly and Pat is sitting there with a great big smirk on his face having the latest last laugh.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think the bigger picture has been lost here.

The reason to retest the samples was not necessarily to catch riders but to publicize to all athletes that retro testing will be done if there is suspicion.
This sends a clear message to those considering engaging in doping that whatever product they use when a test becomes available that suspicious profiles will be retested.

Todays press conference wasn't so much about le Tour '08 but the Tours of the future.

 

[workingclasshero]

I think the bigger picture has been lost here.

The reason to retest the samples was not necessarily to catch riders but to publicize to all athletes that retro testing will be done if their is suspicion.
This sends a clear message to those considering engaging in doping that whatever product they use when a test becomes available that suspicious profiles will be retested.

Todays press conference wasn't so much about le Tour '08 but the Tours of the future.

but when they do not manage to catch anyone at all when surely at least one if not all of them used cera, what message does that send?

 

[Bala Verde]

Interesting (?) quote from Rasmussen:

Físicamente me siento joven y aunque a veces la cabeza me diga que soy viejo, me motiva entrenar con profesionales como Kreuziger o Fuglsang y comprobar que subiendo sigo siendo mejor que ellos", destaca.

[...] "Physically, I feel young, and although sometimes my mind tells me I am old, it motivates me to train with professionals like Kreuziger or Fuglsang and find out that when the road goes up, I am still better than they are"

Source in Spanish

 

[350Watts]

I think the bigger picture has been lost here.

The reason to retest the samples was not necessarily to catch riders but to publicize to all athletes that retro testing will be done if there is suspicion.
This sends a clear message to those considering engaging in doping that whatever product they use when a test becomes available that suspicious profiles will be retested.

Todays press conference wasn't so much about le Tour '08 but the Tours of the future.

This is old news, certainly to people following cycling closely, and especially to they riders. They don't need to go to the press again and again to announce that they are doing retro testing unless they just like the sound of their voice. The people that this is targeted at know what they are doing, do they think that if they repeat it enough the cheats will get scared? Hasn't happened in years and isn't likely to happen now.

It could all be part of AFLD's grand strategy to lull the riders into believing that they can't detect anything and then popping the top 80 or so riders all at once!

On the positive side they have narrowed the doping window slightly (or should that be the airplane hanger door).

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

It could all be part of AFLD's grand strategy to lull the riders into believing that they can't detect anything and then popping the top 80 or so riders all at once! .

The AFLD (or really, the UCI) has never thought that deep. I floated the suggested to the UCI directly this year (through e-mail anyway) that they allow a "press leak" in June that they would likely conduct autologous blood testing through new methods during this year's Tour, and the riders and teams should be prepared. The concept being that even if they didn't conduct such tests, they might accomplish scaring anyone who dopes into reconsidering, or when the test doesn't come out, send up flags of confusion among riders, who then have a harder time predicting what testing will occur in the future.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Meanwhile, Pro Conti riders at the Giro continue to fall.
Next name to get caught for EPO is on the Bosisio thread.
Thank goodness no one ever resorts to cheating, at the race that awards riders the most.
Two clean years (bar those caught at the time) at the Tour, just as Pat predicted.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This is old news, certainly to people following cycling closely, and especially to they riders. They don't need to go to the press again and again to announce that they are doing retro testing unless they just like the sound of their voice. The people that this is targeted at know what they are doing, do they think that if they repeat it enough the cheats will get scared? Hasn't happened in years and isn't likely to happen now.

It could all be part of AFLD's grand strategy to lull the riders into believing that they can't detect anything and then popping the top 80 or so riders all at once!

On the positive side they have narrowed the doping window slightly (or should that be the airplane hanger door).

I certainly woulnt call it old news to anyone who follows cycling closely.
They will know that the UCI had an opportunity to retest the Giro 2008 samples - by the AFLD- and the UCI refused the offer.

The only time retro testing has been applied before in cycling was Thomas Dekker.
Schumacher and TinTin were caught by the IOC.

 

[python]

i am no naive but inclined to believe what i see.

for the first time we are seeing a true round of retrospective tests. this was never done before on such a scale because there was no wada legal basis and or special procedures for storage and retro testing of blood samples. yes there was always a statute of limitation of 8 years but it was more a legal concept than reality. it started with busting dekker and now was extended to 2008 tour. sure both the uci and the afld will politicize the issue or play mind games every time there is an opportunity but it's hard to deny that there is a deterrence effect if only a temporary one. i see cera window almost closed (to smart dopers) and we are now in the era of very sophisticated mini-transfusion schemes. think this way - if armstrong knew for sure that he'll be retro transfusion tested would he fool around?

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Wish we knew if these were the 15 they warned before the tour or others from the 40 with interesting blood values. But 17 riders coming up negative in CERA retro-testing is quite good news, if we compare it with retesting of 1999 samples where all the riders tested for the prologue were +ve for EPO.