The Unipublic way

[Eshnar]

Lol

2009 Tour - Verbier was pretty epic no? Smash into the climb at full speed, then when everyones on their limit Contador fliew away. Fast paced, exciting, constantly changing dynamic of the race. Much much superior to 20kn grind up the Stelvio. Some of the short Cat 3 finishing climbs we are seeing in the Vuelta can get a bit old because they're too short but any decent Cat 1 climb and we'll get a load of action.

Just look at the last mountain stage in the Vuelta where Piti won, how many attacks were there, **** loads and we had no idea who was going to win right till the end. Thats what I want to watch.

Really, we are talking about different sports.
I've yet to see attacks in this Vuelta...

 

[hrotha]

You're criticizing, but not making any constructive points. It's not an argument, it's a request to turn your criticism and make it constructive.

How am I not making constructive points when I'm saying the Vuelta lacks intermediate climbs, has too many MTFs, the stages are too short, there's not enough ITT kms and everything boils down to an uphill sprint?

Regardless, the idea that you can't criticize something unless you can or are willing to do it yourself is silly.

 

[Kwibus]

One of the most epic stages I've seen.

End of the stage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCQxAQaNeAU

Attacking of the favourites startes on the Passo Giau. It just an epic stage.
It was a massacre that day. A day David Millar loved to whine about which is good news.

 

[The Cobra]

For me the best mountain stage in recent times was the Alpe D'Huez stage in the Tour last year, which you can say was a hard multiple big mountain type stage. However that was purely down the Contador being awesome and that is also an exception opposed to the norm on the knind of stages. Nearly always they end up being a dissapointment.

All I can say is I have enjoyed the Vuelta this year, maybe thats because I only get home in time to watch the last half hour when the action start and miss the five hours of tedium waiting for them to hit a hill.

 

[Jason_Mercier]

I disagree about the TDF, this year's route has been a fail. l(imho Preudhomme just did a Wiggins-friendly route, that's all)[/QUOTE]

Yes, that's why he include a Team Time Trial of 40 or 50 kilometres. Oh wait. The TDF was designed for a complete rider and this is all. Completely agree with hrotha.

 

[Eshnar]

I disagree about the TDF, this year's route has been a fail. l(imho Preudhomme just did a Wiggins-friendly route, that's all)

Yes, that's why he include a Team Time Trial of 40 or 50 kilometres. Oh wait. The TDF was designed for a complete rider and this is all. Completely agree with hrotha.

TTT?
Why?
Wiggins was supposed to crush the field in an ITT...
On the other hand a TTT could have saved the pure climbers with a strong team.
BTW I don't like TTTs, ITT were just fine. It's the mountain stages that were a failure

 

[The Cobra]

One thing I will say about the Vuelta, 10 MTF is too many. Its like having Christmas every day, it loses it value and becomes less special if they become too common.

 

[UpTheRoad]

I've yet to see attacks in this Vuelta...

What?

 

[Eshnar]

What?

For me "attacks" means something more drastic than a simple accelerate-and-then-stop-and-have-a-look-around that is what I saw until now.
Maybe the only thing that looked almost like an attack was AC on La Gallina.

 

[Jason_Mercier]

Lol

2009 Tour - Verbier was pretty epic no? Smash into the climb at full speed, then when everyones on their limit Contador fliew away. Fast paced, exciting, constantly changing dynamic of the race. Much much superior to 20kn grind up the Stelvio. Some of the short Cat 3 finishing climbs we are seeing in the Vuelta can get a bit old because they're too short but any decent Cat 1 climb and we'll get a load of action.

Just look at the last mountain stage in the Vuelta where Piti won, how many attacks were there, **** loads and we had no idea who was going to win right till the end. Thats what I want to watch.

Do you prefer the Gallina stage before the Toussuire stage of the TDF for example? Differences: the first 20 minutes of entertainment and the second 2 hours of entertaiment.

 

[Ferminal]

- A single ITT
- No challenging medium mountains/hilly stages (ok this is a rarity in any GT, but at least something like the Liquigas stage last year).
- No long climbs until Stage 14
- Short, single-climb stages.

I tend to agree that this is a Unipublic Grand Synthesis.

Yet compared to the other GTs this year you would consider it a par route.

 

[9000ft]

It seems that the list of things that aren't hated or live up to lofty expectations in all the CN forums is pretty short.

 

[Descender]

I am skeptic. True, the race design can be improved even within the money and space constraints of the organizer. But comparing Pau-Luchon 1983 to Pau-Luchon 2012 just proves that the racing is getting worse no matter the course design. There must be some other variables to play with. Ban power meters and heart rate monitors. I would also ban race radios, but I read from Team Sky that they don't work when you need them

Of course, this is a much broader issue than just GT route designs. But let's go one step at a time.

However I'll say this: if you don't give riders the chance to do something epic, you sure as hell will not see anything epic.

 

[Descender]

One of the most epic stages I've seen.

End of the stage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCQxAQaNeAU

Attacking of the favourites startes on the Passo Giau. It just an epic stage.
It was a massacre that day. A day David Millar loved to whine about which is good news.

Exactly. And where are we supposed to see anything like that in this Vuelta?

 

[icefire]

For me "attacks" means something more drastic than a simple accelerate-and-then-stop-and-have-a-look-around that is what I saw until now.
Maybe the only thing that looked almost like an attack was AC on La Gallina.

Accelerations do not turn into attacks because of many reasons, not all of them related to stage design. Riders looking at their power meter or hear rate monitor, DS instructions through race radios (when they work ) and smaller differences between rider's strength. Going back to my previous example, Pau-Luchon 1983 was carnage while Pau-Luchon was rather boring despite being raced more than 1 hour faster. I'm sad to see that Tourmalet or Madeleine are no longer the race breakers they used to be unless they're the last climb of the day. Who's to blame for that? Lighter bike makers? Scientific training/racing? Race radios? Perhaps the tarmac?

And I'm with you that the Vuelta parcourse has margin for improvement, but I'm still skeptic about the reasons for the kind of racing we see from riders.

 

[Parrulo]

as always on this kind of stuff, i agree with hrotha, eshnar and descender.

this vuelta is a joke. granted none of the GT's were any good this year.

giro- everything was put together on the last week creating 2 weeks of boredom and 3 days of defensive racing before anything happened in the mountains.

tour- perfect amount of itt for a GT pathetic mountain stages tho making it ridiculous.

vuelta- 19 sprint stages some of them uphill, 2 time trials. . . .

imo spread the giro mountains across the 3 weeks put the tour time trials there and we have a decent GT.

 

[Eshnar]

Going back to my previous example, Pau-Luchon 1983 was carnage while Pau-Luchon was rather boring despite being raced more than 1 hour faster. I'm sad to see that Tourmalet or Madeleine are no longer the race breakers they used to be unless they're the last climb of the day. Who's to blame for that? Lighter bike makers? Scientific training/racing? Race radios? Perhaps the tarmac?

Indeed, climbs and stages like those are not as selective as they were. Pau-Luchon is not the challenge it's used to be. Whatever the reason is, it's a fact that races are faster now, the average peloton is more trained than it was long ago. If an organizer wants to get the same racing of the old days, what sohlud he do? Imho the solution is pretty simple. We need harder races.
And then Unipublic starts designing 150 kms long stages claiming the Vuelta is so hard they had to get rid of the intermediate climbs :-/
When in the stage to Arrate AC accelerates, he needs 100m to realize he can't go anywhere. His opponents are all fresh.
It's the same old story of MSR. The Poggio is a climb that's so easy it would barely be categorised in a GT... But after 290 kms of racing it IS a problem.

 

[Ferminal]

I do not have a problem with one or two single climb stages, likewise, one or two short mountain stages.

Yet there's one word the organisers struggle to grasp these days.

 

[The Hitch]

imo spread the giro mountains across the 3 weeks put the tour time trials there and we have a decent GT.

So you mean

1st week -prologue - 5 sprints - gavia stage
2nd week : tt- 5 sprints - Giau stage
3rd week : tt 5 sprints - stelvio stage?

 

[Kwibus]

So you mean

1st week -prologue - 5 sprints - gavia stage
2nd week : tt- 5 sprints - Giau stage
3rd week : tt 5 sprints - stelvio stage?

C'mon Hitch. Trolling much?

 

[Parrulo]

C'mon Hitch. Trolling much?

above all trolling a mod!!!!!!!

hitchy wants to be benched for a week

i also think the organizers should add 50 more k of difficulties to each monument.

currently PR is the only race still capable of breaking up the peloton with more then 50k to go.

 

[Eshnar]

above all trolling a mod!!!!!!!

hitchy wants to be benched for a week

i also think the organizers should add 50 more k of difficulties to each monument.

currently PR is the only race still capable of breaking up the peloton with more then 50k to go.

I'm with you.

 

[Koba80]

Agree more and more with Hrotha every day, absolutely god awful GT.
The only thing holding my attention is the fact that a Katusha (fanboy alert) rider is leading and the desperate (and likely futile) hope that Dvarmstrong won't win.

 

[luckyboy]

At least the Ancares, Cuitu Negru and Covadonga stages have a couple of climbs before the finale to break things up.

There are too many punchy steep uphill finishes. Fuente De and Valdezcarray are unnecessary.

Could do with a few hilly stages (hills throughout not just one at the end) and a 30km flat TT and I don't think the parcours would be that bad.

At least there's a reason to tune in every day - stark contrast to the Tour and Giro.

 

[cineteq]

So this has become another bashing GT thread, or it should it be merged with the design thread. Mods, what do you think?