The Unipublic way

[Eshnar]

So this has become another bashing GT thread, or it should it be merged with the design thread. Mods, what do you think?

Wait, there are other bashing GT threads? where?

 

[ElChingon]

It seems that the list of things that aren't hated or live up to lofty expectations in all the CN forums is pretty short.

Yea, time to change the forum Title to "Cycling Haters Forum", makes one wonder what they say about the sports they actually hate.

The Unipublic way has been figured out and analyzed for what it is and now its a bad thing? Its called being different so you expect a different race not the same race you get at the Giro or Tour, otherwise then its a typical expected race plan for the teams.

 

[luckyboy]

Yeah it is nice that the GTs are all different in their design/feel.

 

[Descender]

My proposal for a Vuelta, beginning in post 1647.

Yes we can!

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=15517&page=165

 

[Eshnar]

Unipublic is not trying to be different... they are trying to be worse.
It's like a football event organizers that gets the idea of reducing the size of the goals to 2 x 1 metres and the playing time to 20 minutes per half in order to limit the scoring and ensuring games will be decided by penalties.
Just because TV share during penalties is damn high.
That's what they're doing. It's not a different GT, it's getting a different sport.

 

[ElChingon]

Unipublic is not trying to be different... they are trying to be worse.
It's like a football event organizers that gets the idea of reducing the size of the goals to 2 x 1 metres and the playing time to 20 minutes per half in order to limit the scoring and ensuring games will be decided by penalties.
Just because TV share during penalties is damn high.
That's what they're doing. It's not a different GT, it's getting a different sport.

Well going from square wood goals to round metal tubes changed what happens when they hit the goals now didn't it?

 

[Eshnar]

Well going from square wood goals to round metal tubes changed what happens when they hit the goals now didn't it?

yes it did.
Just like changing materials on the bikes changed something too.
What's your point then?

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

One of the most epic stages I've seen.

End of the stage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCQxAQaNeAU

Attacking of the favourites startes on the Passo Giau. It just an epic stage.
It was a massacre that day. A day David Millar loved to whine about which is good news.

By far the best day racing I've seen in a long time.

 

[The Hitch]

Unipublic is not trying to be different... they are trying to be worse.
It's like a football event organizers that gets the idea of reducing the size of the goals to 2 x 1 metres and the playing time to 20 minutes per half in order to limit the scoring and ensuring games will be decided by penalties.
Just because TV share during penalties is damn high.
That's what they're doing. It's not a different GT, it's getting a different sport.

Personally i would find that to be far more entertaining football. 90 minutes is usually a snoozefest.

 

[Eshnar]

Personally i would find that to be far more entertaining football. 90 minutes is usually a snoozefest.

I see you're in trolling mode today, Hitch.
Whatever...

 

[hfer07]

lets get this out the way:
the very reason breakaways do not succeed nowadays is because of the "super teams" not allowing riders to get away- not because the parcaurs impede them.-that's absurd!!!



back to topic:
So now we have the "unipublic way", the Prudomme way" & "the Giro way"...............
good to me!!!!
Each race should encourage its very unique to approach the race, based on its own geography, racing raditions, calender, etc. etc.

As far as the Vuelta goes-the organizers have provided very exciting parcours over the last editions, & thus have achieved more attention than the Tour has in comparasion, due to Spaniard approach to enhance the race with challenging sharp finishes & new unveiled routes that are being placed every year. To me that's a plus, so i'd say "the Unipublic way works"

but like Prudomme said-no matter how many MTF you place or how many surprises the GC organizers may come up with-The level of racing & excitement will always depend on the "riders"- the parcours is just the "canvas"....

 

[Eshnar]

lets get this out the way:
the very reason breakaways do not succeed nowadays is because of the "super teams" not allowing riders to get away- not because the parcaurs impede them.-that's absurd!!!

Breakaways succeed in tough races, even in presence of great teams.
PR this year worked.
Breakaways have succeeded in the Giro.
Breakaways can't succeed in this Vuelta.

As far as the Vuelta goes-the organizers have provided very exciting parcours over the last editions, & thus have achieved more attention than the Tour has in comparasion, due to Spaniard approach to enhance the race with challenging sharp finishes & new unveiled routes that are being placed every year. To me that's a plus, so i'd say "the Unipublic way works"

but like Prudomme said-no matter how many MTF you place or how many surprises the GC organizers may come up with-The level of racing & excitement will always depend on the "riders"- the parcours is just the "canvas"....

true. Indeed this Vuelta is being praised, only for the presence of Contador. Without him the percentage of the bored fans would double instantly.

 

[SafeBet]

I agree with everything Hrotha and Eshnar posted so far. Especially this:

Breakaways succeed in tough races, even in presence of great teams.
PR this year worked.
Breakaways have succeeded in the Giro.
Breakaways can't succeed in this Vuelta.

I can't say I'm the biggest fan of breakaways but really this Vuelta is designed against them. And it's boring. And it's frustrating. I want the Moncutie, Hoogerland, the Voigt of this world to have a chance.

If you take the ITTs away, 70% of the stages so far have been won by two riders.

 

[hfer07]

Breakaways succeed in tough races, even in presence of great teams.
PR this year worked.
Breakaways have succeeded in the Giro.
Breakaways can't succeed in this Vuelta.
.

Ok. then tell me once more HOW a breakaway succeed in the first place?
Rolland's breakaway worked because he was "far behind" in the GC & SKY "allowed" him to go. see the difference? ALLOW is a key word

true. Indeed this Vuelta is being praised, only for the presence of Contador. Without him the percentage of the bored fans would double instantly.

Last year's vuelta was exciting with Froome & Cobo- even more in 2010 with Nibali vs Eze.- so this year seems more exciting because of Contador's RETURN- not necessarily because he's in it!!

 

[Eshnar]

Ok. then tell me once more HOW a breakaway succeed in the first place?
Rolland's breakaway worked because he was "far behind" in the GC & SKY "allowed" him to go. see the difference? ALLOW is a key word

yes, and Boonen was allowed to go away because it wasn't a threat
And btw I didn't mention Rolland and the tdf at all because there weren't really difficult stages in there, so Sky could boss everything, as you said.

Last year's vuelta was exciting with Froome & Cobo- even more in 2010 with Nibali vs Eze.- so this year seems more exciting because of Contador's RETURN- not necessarily because he's in it!!

It seems, but it isn't. see the difference?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The Unipublic way has been figured out and analyzed for what it is and now its a bad thing? Its called being different so you expect a different race not the same race you get at the Giro or Tour, otherwise then its a typical expected race plan for the teams.

It's not that Unipublic have done anything deliberately wrong per se, it's that they've looked at the data from their race and drawn the same conclusions as others, but their response to this has been antithetical to what one might expect.

i.e.:
Problem:
- small time gaps created on single-climb mountain stages.

Solution:
- tougher mountain stages to create bigger gaps, or more time trial mileage to mean more time needed by climbers so they must attack earlier.

Unipublic Solution:
- more single-climb mountain stages so gaps are increased by cyclical repetition of those small gaps.

 

[la.margna]

I think the 2012 Vuelta is the greatest Grand Tour this year and it's not even finished. Great course design, Abraham Olano, congrats!

 

[No_Balls]

but like Prudomme said-no matter how many MTF you place or how many surprises the GC organizers may come up with-The level of racing & excitement will always depend on the "riders"- the parcours is just the "canvas"....

This.

There is an unexplainable obsession with parcours at this place that is both fascinating and rather creepy at the same time. To me, it is quite obvious: the route will not be better then what the riders make out of it. You could have 15 MTF but if the fireworks isnt there then it isnt. In its place we could have uphill finishes like today and if the approach is good (which it will be with a close GC-battle) then it will make for a good race. I take that any day of the week rather then having early long climbs that will settle the race come halfways. I even like the idea of waiting long for the mountains because that will make the joy of see climbing again much bigger.

But if look at the whiners little effort to present their own route (but just whine about what we have) it seems to me it has very little to do with Unipublic or the parcours as much as the Vuelta itself.

 

[SafeBet]

But if look at the whiners little effort to present their own route (but just whine about what we have) it seems to me it has very little to do with Unipublic or the parcours as much as the Vuelta itself.

You do realize an alternative Vuelta route was posted not longer than one page ago on this very topic, right?

Little effort my ***.

 

[hfer07]

yes, and Boonen was allowed to go away because it wasn't a threat
And btw I didn't mention Rolland and the tdf at all because there weren't really difficult stages in there, so Sky could boss everything, as you said.

I kind of suspected you implied Paris Roubaix, but since we're discussing Grand Tours - I was not expecting you to compare a ONE SINGLE DAY RACE with a 3 WEEK RACE...... See the difference?

It seems, but it isn't. see the difference

I don't.
2010 Giro is and perhaps will be the best GC of the last 10 years yet Contador wasn't in it...

 

[Descender]

But if look at the whiners little effort to present their own route (but just whine about what we have) it seems to me it has very little to do with Unipublic or the parcours as much as the Vuelta itself.

Do you have me on ignore?

 

[The Hitch]

As far as posters presenting own routes, i have no doubt that the likes of Eshnar, Libertine Seguros, etc would produce routes vastly superior to what we get from the actual orgainzers.


if i woke up tomorrow and found myself in the chair at unipublic, aso or rcs, id just put those 3 or 4 posters in a room for a night, and go with whatever came out in the morning (and in typical sports body style, bag all the money for myself).

Though that is not neccesarily what is being discussed. Just because the route sucks, doesnt mean it cant produce entertaining racing once in a while, and i think this Vuelta shows (and future ones which follow this forumula will probably suck) that with a few other variables going right, even a crap route can end the season as the top grand tour.

 

[No_Balls]

Do you have me on ignore?

No man (this goes for safebet too). I respect and understand you guys who actually have contributed to the benefit of the race with your thoughts and ideas. There are more behind your words then whining just for the sake of it.

I think we have one or two too many uphill sprint finishes to make this GT complete but still enjoying it pretty much after two previously very boring GT.

 

[hrotha]

The notion that people who criticize something are "whining haters" who should go watch anything else is ludicrous, as is the idea that you can't criticize something unless you've done better personally. It's very annoying to write what I think is a well-reasoned post only to have to see replies like "omigod haterz".

 

[cineteq]

I kind of suspected you implied Paris Roubaix, but since we're discussing Grand Tours - I was not expecting you to compare a ONE SINGLE DAY RACE with a 3 WEEK RACE...... See the difference?

2010 Giro is and perhaps will be the best GC of the last 10 years yet Contador wasn't in it...

+1 Smart answers.

Just because the route sucks, doesnt mean it cant produce entertaining racing once in a while, and i think this Vuelta shows

+1 Wow, you're inspired today!