The USADA letter in full

[TechnicalDescent]

pretty sure this wasnt 'released' by USADA ... was a leak from somewhere.

The letter was published only by the Washington Post ... then picked up by everyone after that. If it was released officially, everyone would have printed something from the start.

Ah, I didn't know that. I thought it was an official release. That's quite interesting. I wonder how long the targets have known, or was it leaked before it reached them and they found out like us?

 

[Race Radio]

pretty sure this wasnt 'released' by USADA ... was a leak from somewhere.

The letter was published only by the Washington Post ... then picked up by everyone after that. If it was released officially, everyone would have printed something from the start.

The real story is funny, Wonderboy screwed up. Tried to plant a story, which opened USADA to go public

 

[BroDeal]

The real story is funny, Wonderboy screwed up. Tried to plant a story, which opened USADA to go public

Can we get more detail?

 

[pedaling squares]

The real story is funny, Wonderboy screwed up. Tried to come back because he couldn't stand to see a more talented rider win the Tour de France with his old team. Continued to use PED's, screwed over his own teammate, screwed over a former teammate who really needed a break, and put that guy so far against the wall that spilling the beans became a more pleasant alternative. He couldn't leave well enough alone, he couldn't remain out of the spotlight, he couldn't show anyone a little decency, and now he's risking his palmares, his reputation, and a good chunk of his fortune. And I think that is hilarious.

 

[MarkvW]

The real story is funny, Wonderboy screwed up. Tried to plant a story, which opened USADA to go public

Sally Jenkins?

 

[BroDeal]

The real story is funny, Wonderboy screwed up. Tried to come back because he couldn't stand to see a more talented rider win the Tour de France with his old team. Continued to use PED's, screwed over his own teammate, screwed over a former teammate who really needed a break, and put that guy so far against the wall that spilling the beans became a more pleasant alternative. He couldn't leave well enough alone, he couldn't remain out of the spotlight, he couldn't show anyone a little decency, and now he's risking his palmares, his reputation, and a good chunk of his fortune. And I think that is hilarious.

This.

Modern day Greek tragedy that is not so tragic. Greek comedy? A classic tale of the flaws in the antagonist bringing about his success then his eventual downfall.

If Armstrong has any self awareness at all, something which I doubt, then for the rest of his life he will regret screwing Landis over. In the end he may not have even had to hire Landis. All it may have taken was for him to have leaned on the ToC to let Floyd's team in the race.

 

[pedaling squares]

Lots to learn. Re-restated.

 

[Race Radio]

Can we get more detail?

Later, once this place cools down. Too many trolls right now

Really the real story is not the USDA letter but the various legal machinations wonderboy has used for the last decade.

 

[MarkvW]

This.

Modern day Greek tragedy that is not so tragic. Greek comedy? A classic tale of the flaws in the antagonist bringing about his success then his eventual downfall.

If Armstrong has any self awareness at all, something which I doubt, then for the rest of his life he will regret screwing Landis over. In the end he may not have even had to hire Landis. All it may have taken was for him to have leaned on the ToC to let Floyd's team in the race.

Hard to say. Floyd was going up like the Hindenburg and Lance didn't want to get burned by the flames. I think Lance helped Floyd all he could--right up to the point where Lance risked taking a PR hit. But Lance wasn't going to take any risk on Floyd's behalf, that's for sure.

I don't see that Lance screwed Floyd over. It's like the movie "The Bad and the Beautiful," Lance is Jonathan Shields, and Floyd is Georgia Lorrison. Sure, Lance screwed Floyd over--all the way to Floyd winning the Tour de France. It's a great movie.

I agree with you that Lance probably does regret not helping Floyd more. But on the other hand, I am absolutely certain that if the Floyd situation re-presented itself, Lance would treat Floyd exactly the same way. It's just the way he's wired.

 

[Escarabajo]

The real story is funny, Wonderboy screwed up. Tried to come back because he couldn't stand to see a more talented rider win the Tour de France with his old team. Continued to use PED's, screwed over his own teammate, screwed over a former teammate who really needed a break, and put that guy so far against the wall that spilling the beans became a more pleasant alternative. He couldn't leave well enough alone, he couldn't remain out of the spotlight, he couldn't show anyone a little decency, and now he's risking his palmares, his reputation, and a good chunk of his fortune. And I think that is hilarious.

+1. Exactly my thoughts.

 

[BroDeal]

Hard to say. Floyd was going up like the Hindenburg and Lance didn't want to get burned by the flames. I think Lance helped Floyd all he could--right up to the point where Lance risked taking a PR hit. But Lance wasn't going to take any risk on Floyd's behalf, that's for sure.

Armstrong did not have to hire Landis into Radio Shack. He could have slapped some sense into McQuaid. He could have explained that blackballing Landis, plus any returning doper for that matter, was risky. McQuaid and Armstrong meeting with the ASO in 2008 led to Patrice Clerc being removed as director of the Tour. They could have removed the impediments for teams that could have hired Landis.

I don't see that Lance screwed Floyd over. It's like the movie "The Bad and the Beautiful," Lance is Jonathan Shields, and Floyd is Georgia Lorrison. Sure, Lance screwed Floyd over--all the way to Floyd winning the Tour de France. It's a great movie.

"The Bad Sleep Well" may be more applicable.

 

[yourwelcome]

Later, once this place cools down. Too many trolls right now

LOL - too many enemy patrols right now, but later on anything you post here will be just between you and the faithful?

 

[yourwelcome]

Seems like a generic pro/ex-pro response which will be seen a lot once they get over the shock of such an outstanding champion of clean cycling charged.

I'm sure a lot of pros (some maybe even clean) are still not interested in speaking out too harshly in case it could jeopardise their relationships with people they will need in their future careers.

It's their livelihood, and I'd bet cycling is still mainly run by the old school.

 

[andy1234]

I'm sure a lot of pros (some maybe even clean) are still not interested in speaking out too harshly in case it could jeopardise their relationships with people they will need in their future careers.

It's their livelihood, and I'd bet cycling is still mainly run by the old school.

I think a lot of pros simply don't care as much as some people in the clinic want them too. Its Armstrongs problem, not theirs.

 

[roundabout]

I'm sure a lot of pros (some maybe even clean) are still not interested in speaking out too harshly in case it could jeopardise their relationships with people they will need in their future careers.

It's their livelihood, and I'd bet cycling is still mainly run by the old school.

There's not speaking to harshly and then there's rehashing the talking points about passed tests etc.

I do agree that this non-reaction is a sign that the past is difficult to move away from.

 

[Benotti69]

I think a lot of pros simply don't care as much as some people in the clinic want them too. Its Armstrongs problem, not theirs.

How do you figure that when the General manager of the Pro Team RadioShackNissan Trek is involved?

10 riders were named, maybe some still racing. Hincapie has been named as a possibilty, maybe Leipheimer and Horner too. These are current members of the pro peloton.

The Doctors too are currently working with pro teams and have worked with existing pro teams in the past so it very much concerns the current crop of teams and riders.

This could bring down the house of cards or have a domino affect.

It is bigger than Armstrong this time.

I bet there are a lot of conversations going on between those who have worked with the doctors named.

I imagine some sponsors are ringing their teams to see whether their team used these doctors.

I would hazard a guess that the some riders and team owners are not sleeping well.

 

[sniper]

How do you figure that when the General manager of the Pro Team RadioShackNissan Trek is involved?

10 riders were named, maybe some still racing. Hincapie has been named as a possibilty, maybe Leipheimer and Horner too. These are current members of the pro peloton.

The Doctors too are currently working with pro teams and have worked with existing pro teams in the past so it very much concerns the current crop of teams and riders.

This could bring down the house of cards or have a domino affect.

It is bigger than Armstrong this time.

I bet there are a lot of conversations going on between those who have worked with the doctors named.

I imagine some sponsors are ringing their teams to see whether their team used these doctors.

I would hazard a guess that the some riders and team owners are not sleeping well.

I'm not sure if I share your optimism.
Unless sponsors really start seeing negative sales figures as a result of their sponsoring a doping-related team, I'm not sure if we will see farreaching changes.
Apparently, for sponsors, the positive publicity relating to heroism still by far outweighs the negative publicity of being related to doping.
(Cf. Contador being welcomed back by Saxo.)

Though it is still early, right now, hardly surprising, we're not seeing any active reaction from the UCI or from sponsors.
The UCI's request for Armstrong to take position and express himself in the matter is strictly pro-forma.
Of course UCI's credibility will be damaged heavily because of this.
But have they ever cared about their credibility in the first place?

In a week or so from now we can expect a UCI press statement:

"On the UCI's request, Lance Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel have detailed their position regarding the recent accusations in a satisfactory manner. The UCI will now deal with the matter internally. No further public statements regarding the case will be made in order to respect the privacy rights of those involved."

 

[Benotti69]

I'm not sure if I share your optimism.
Unless sponsors really start seeing negative sales figures as a result of their sponsoring a doping-related team, I'm not sure if we will see farreaching changes.
Apparently, for sponsors, the positive publicity relating to heroism still by far outweighs the negative publicity of being related to doping.
(Cf. Contador being welcomed back by Saxo.)

Though it is still early, right now, hardly surprising, we're not seeing any active reaction from the UCI or from sponsors.
The UCI's request for Armstrong to take position and express himself in the matter is strictly pro-forma.
Of course UCI's credibility will be damaged heavily because of this.
But have they ever cared about their credibility in the first place?

In a week or so from now we can expect a UCI press statement:

"On the UCI's request, Lance Armstrong and Johan Bruyneel have detailed their position regarding the recent accusations in a satisfactory manner. The UCI will now deal with the matter internally. No further public statements regarding the case will be made in order to respect the privacy rights of those involved."

truth be told i am not optimistic to many vested interests have prevailed before and no doubt will again.

Not enough people care about doing the right thing for there to be any real change to be caused by this latest episode.

oh we'll get JV spouting his usual clean garmin crap, UCI claiming it was years ago and they knew nothing but a new era has dawned and we have Murdoch about to win his 1st TdF and be sure he is not going to let that get smeared with any doping.

But Armstrong thought he faced down these accusations time and time again yet it hasn't gone away so maybe somebody will produce the smoking gun now that it has cast its net wider than Armstrong and that will no matter what it will reek havoc and destruction that will leave a lot of people with the doping tag for life.

And then we may get people to realise it is time to race clean.

 

[sniper]

truth be told i am not optimistic to many vested interests have prevailed before and no doubt will again.

Not enough people care about doing the right thing for there to be any real change to be caused by this latest episode.

oh we'll get JV spouting his usual clean garmin crap, UCI claiming it was years ago and they knew nothing but a new era has dawned and we have Murdoch about to win his 1st TdF and be sure he is not going to let that get smeared with any doping.

But Armstrong thought he faced down these accusations time and time again yet it hasn't gone away so maybe somebody will produce the smoking gun now that it has cast its net wider than Armstrong and that will no matter what it will reek havoc and destruction that will leave a lot of people with the doping tag for life.

And then we may get people to realise it is time to race clean.

Well, true, this investigation has dug deeper than any before, is stickier than any before, could thus well scare off a lot of people, and might very well have a cleansing effect. Perhaps my pessimism is premature. I too am hoping for the domino effect. The best chances for that to happen, I assume, is when reliable evidence against the UCI surfaces.

Anyway, USADA is doing its thing, working on improving the US's reputation in terms of doping.
So what about the Spanish. where is the Spanish indignation? three doctors involved are Spanish, one of them being AC's former rolleyes coach. And yet I hear or see no Spanish outcry. No indignation. The Spanish press only reports on Armstrong, Bruyneel, Ferrari, and "three other doctors".

Example:

En la carta de la USADA, de fecha 12 de junio, afirma que Armstrong y cinco antiguos miembros de equipo de ciclismo - tres médicos, que incluye médico italiano Michele Ferrari, y Johan Bruyneel- participaron en una conspiración de dopaje masivo desde 1998 hasta 2011

http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/noticias/acusan-armstrong-tener-una-trama-202054916.html

 

[Benotti69]

Well, true, this investigation has dug deeper than any before, is stickier than any before, could thus well scare off a lot of people, and might very well have a cleansing effect. Perhaps my pessimism is premature. I too am hoping for the domino effect. The best chances for that to happen, I assume, is when reliable evidence against the UCI surfaces.

Anyway, USADA is doing its thing, working on improving the US's reputation in terms of doping.
So what about the Spanish. where is the Spanish indignation? three doctors involved are Spanish, one of them being AC's former rolleyes coach. And yet I hear or see no Spanish outcry. No indignation. The Spanish press only reports on Armstrong, Bruyneel, Ferrari, and "three other doctors".

Example:

http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/noticias/acusan-armstrong-tener-una-trama-202054916.html

I dont expect the Spanish to do anything but i hope CONI do ban teams from racing in Italy who are using these doctors if they can. I hope ASO make it known that any team using these doctors will be ejected from ASO events etc..

I hope CONI can use some of the USADA info to ban any Italian riders who rode for these doctors and teams.

 

[Race Radio]

Babble

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Armstrong did not have to hire Landis into Radio Shack. He could have slapped some sense into McQuaid. He could have explained that blackballing Landis, plus any returning doper for that matter, was risky. McQuaid and Armstrong meeting with the ASO in 2008 led to Patrice Clerc being removed as director of the Tour. They could have removed the impediments for teams that could have hired Landis.



"The Bad Sleep Well" may be more applicable.

THAT is a great movie. Toshiro Mifune is excellent in it! ..one of my favorites

 

[zigmeister]

ROFL, I finally got around to reading the entire thing, and just as I assumed and expected, their case relies entirely on:

1) Tyler
2) Floyd
3) Frankie/Betsy

And that is about it.

Every line for each person states, several people will testify that they witnessed or knew first hand the allegations.

We all know they are referring to the same old usual suspects listed above, who the Feds couldn't get a grand jury to indict Lance, with just their testimony due to the often shady past and credibility issues the have.

Good luck with this USADA.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

ROFL, I finally got around to reading the entire thing, and just as I assumed and expected, their case relies entirely on:

1) Tyler
2) Floyd
3) Frankie/Betsy

And that is about it.

Every line for each person states, several people will testify that they witnessed or knew first hand the allegations.

We all know they are referring to the same old usual suspects listed above, who the Feds couldn't get a grand jury to indict Lance, with just their testimony due to the often shady past and credibility issues the have.

Good luck with this USADA.

Yea because those 4 people = 10 + employees of the team/s. I guess you can't read, that or you have a GED edumikation like that of your fraud of a hero. Then again, maybe its your math skills? Plus, I don't think they will need luck with the evidence they appear to have.

 

[Race Radio]

ROFL, I finally got around to reading the entire thing, and just as I assumed and expected, their case relies entirely on:

1) Tyler
2) Floyd
3) Frankie/Betsy

And that is about it.

Every line for each person states, several people will testify that they witnessed or knew first hand the allegations.

We all know they are referring to the same old usual suspects listed above, who the Feds couldn't get a grand jury to indict Lance, with just their testimony due to the often shady past and credibility issues the have.

Good luck with this USADA.

Did you see the part about 10+ direct witnesses? or the part about the blood values in 2009 and 2010 that showed blood doping?

Yeah, nothing to see here. just a witch hunt