The Women's Road Racing Thread 2016

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Don't understand all the fuss about the descent. Clearly most riders managed not to crash - simple matter of physics.

Both men's and women's races were determined by leaders crashing on the descent. That's not normal and not desirable.

Those leaders risked it, and took one risk too many. That's sport

What a remarkably complacent sentiment.

Of course, there is more than one factor determining risk. How fast the rider chooses to attempt a descent, certainly, but also the inherent difficulty of the descent. In important races, those who are in contention to win will take risks. It is not desirable to pair that with descents that greatly exacerbate that risk. Because when we are talking about people going down the side of the mountain on a piece of carbon fibre, they are risking not just the outcome of a race but their health.

For exactly the same reason, downhill ITTs are a stupid idea with no place in the sport.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

Don't understand all the fuss about the descent. Clearly most riders managed not to crash - simple matter of physics.

Both men's and women's races were determined by leaders crashing on the descent. That's not normal and not desirable.

Those leaders risked it, and took one risk too many. That's sport

It's just not appropriate to have an event that only comes around every 4 years have a descent like that. If you enjoy the leader of the race perhaps having a career ending crash or even killed because it's their fault they can't handle the risk you're sick in the head. I took no enjoyment from the crash onward. The race had changed shape entirely and not because of a rider being stronger.

 

[gerundium]

The thing about the descent is the gutters on each side which means there is no chance of correcting a mistake. On nearly every other descent you can at least try and rescue a bad corner or even try to control a fall. But here, if you screw up, you're in trouble.

I think this is the real issue with the descent. What you see happening a lot in other descents is people going straight and going into the grass or something. sure they will be banged up but they can continue.

One mistake here all but guarantees a nasty crash and severe injuries.

Anyway good to see van der Breggen take the gold home. In the post race interview you could see that wasn't the first thing on her mind. She didn't want to ride at first after the crash because it looked nasty but apparently Johansson went up to her and said let's do it for van Vleuten. That's why they went full gas with the three of them afterwards.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

In an ambulance, conscious, but with serious injuries. Overjoyed to hear that! I'm sure I wasn't the only one who wondered if she had broken her neck.

Yeah I had the same thought. Yesterday I could still enjoy the drama at the end because we saw that Henao and Nibali were okay. Ofc. they had broken bones but stuff like that heals, this time I could only think about what injuries she might have.

 

[Kwibus]

Craziest race I've seen. Well last 30km atleast, thats when I started watching.

Strong break which gets taken back by a strong US and then Abott dropping everyone with the exception of v vleuten who actually also attacked and then drops Abott, makes a mistake in the final hard corner and crashes hard and ends up motionless in a ditch upside down which immediately make my gut turn upside down. I really feared for her live there.
Abott then gets reeled back in the last 200mtr which is an incredible climax and just terrible for Abott, but for the drama ofcourse spectaculair and then v.d. Breggen surprising Johansson and winning and then I just had the most conflictong emotions ever...

V.d. Breggen, Johansson and Bronzini were shocked after they watched v. Vleuten and specially v.d. Breggen was not able to race at that point. Johansson came up to Anna and said let's race for Annemiek now, which woke Anna up again.

Crazy race....

 

[Ryongsyong]

Honestly, some keyboard warriors here. The type who'd happily have a cycling course featuring a tightrope stretched over a waterfall -- if they fall off that's their fault for not being careful right? They didn't have to do it. That's just sport.

Idiots.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Craziest race I've seen. Well last 30km atleast, thats when I started watching.

Strong break which gets taken back by a strong US and then Abott dropping everyone with the exception of v vleuten who actually also attacked and then drops Abott, makes a mistake in the final hard corner and crashes hard and ends up motionless in a ditch upside down which immediately make my gut turn upside down. I really feared for her live there.
Abott then gets reeled back in the last 200mtr which is an incredible climax and just terrible for Abott, but for the drama ofcourse spectaculair and then v.d. Breggen surprising Johansson and winning and then I just had the most conflictong emotions ever...

V.d. Breggen, Johansson and Bronzini were shocked after they watched v. Vleuten and specially v.d. Breggen was not able to race at that point. Johansson came up to Anna and said let's race for Annemiek now, which woke Anna up again.

Crazy race....

Exactly. I cheered v.d Breggen over the line, then went back to being intensely worried until we got the first news.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

Honestly, some keyboard warriors here. The type who'd happily have a cycling course featuring a tightrope stretched over a waterfall -- if they fall off that's their fault for not being careful right? They didn't have to do it. That's just sport.

Idiots.

Cyclingnews: The place where you cannot (any longer) insult any cyclist, but it's all okay if you insult fellow posters, as long as you are not specific about which ones.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The finale you had Mara clearly pedaling squares at the front, the third group on the road with the others being almost solely reliant on Kasia who didn't have enough left to pull back the trio. It looked like they might but once they got within about 10" they got onto the straight section and once the Anna VDB/Emma J/ELB trio could see Mara, they had their carrot to work for, the remainder of the third group were just too spent to make the chase. Oliveira tried a couple of times and Lizzie took a pull, but it became clear the quartet didn't have enough left to bring them back. Then you had two strong time trialists in Anna and ELB, but with them needing every ounce of effort from all 3 to bring Mara back in time, I think Emma J just went too far into the red in her turns for her to have been able to open up her sprint properly. At the end of the day though, if she'd not gone that far into the red, she might have won the sprint but the sprint would have been for silver; as it was she ran the risk of not having the sprint, but the sprint was for gold - so it was a no brainer pick for her.

Of course, if she'd made it to the bottom of the descent, we would almost certainly be talking about Annemiek van Vleuten, Olympic champion; she's much stronger against the clock than Mara and even if she was spent she had more of a time gap plus of course van der Breggen wouldn't have contributed to the chase; it sadly was not to be, in some of the most terrible of circumstances. It's perhaps notable that in the trending on Twitter, van Vleuten is getting 10x as much discussion as Anna, because we just watched one of the most exciting finales to one of the best races of the year, but we also saw one of the most violent crashes that I can recall, and the longer it went without getting the all clear, the scarier it got.

 

[Arnout]

Re:

Honestly, some keyboard warriors here. The type who'd happily have a cycling course featuring a tightrope stretched over a waterfall -- if they fall off that's their fault for not being careful right? They didn't have to do it. That's just sport.

Idiots.

Nope. A tightrope stretched over a waterfall is a course for a unicyce. A descent is the consequence of an ascent and these geographical terrain features form an integral part of cycling.

 

[May0maniac]

Yeah, that crash was really horrible, the Pozzovivo crash in the 2015 Giro comes close, it didn't look as brutal, but Domenico just lying on the ground unconscious was also horrible and I was really worried about him.
Heartbreaking is exactly the right word to describe the race, it was a great race but the final was heartbreaking.

 

[PeterB]

The problem with the descent is this: For every rider there is a certain speed at which they can be 100% sure they won't crash. But would you go at that speed? If you can go faster and still have e.g. 95% almost certainty you won't crash? If you fight for a medal in one of the biggest races of your career? You would probably go faster than your 100% safe speed, and then it is just a matter of how much risk you are willing to take. Clearly no rider will go at such speed they are certain to crash. But those most courageous would go at speeds of e.g. 70 or 80% probability of staying safe. And, 20 - 30% probability of crashing. And then of course you see someone crash just because of statistics, but you can't blame riders for taking those risks. They are expected to perform as top athletes in the their sport, which includes taking some risks downhill.

And here, we had a combination of a very important event and very dangerous descent. The result could have been expected and it is not a nice one. It is clearly organizers' or controllers' fault that they exposed riders to such a dangerous situation.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Personally, the only thing that made it dangerous was the fact that their were trees right next to the road. Yes we see this in other pro races, but not this many, with a drain and steep kerb right by the road. This type of descent is seen in many pro races, but the fact there was no run off made the course more dangerous than other twisty descents. Another reason is because of the darkness from the thickly layered trees everywhere.

I feel sorry for van Vleuten, but she was pushing unnecessarily. She got the gap she wanted and continued pushing. Maybe if she hadn't pushed so hard, she could have stayed out there for the finish. But we can say she could of done this, she did do that, if she didn't do the other then something else wouldn't of happened etc... Without knowing anything that was going through her head. We don't know her tactics. We are only saying stuff in hindsight after the incident, as we can only see the images on the road.

 

[Ryongsyong]

Re: Re:

Honestly, some keyboard warriors here. The type who'd happily have a cycling course featuring a tightrope stretched over a waterfall -- if they fall off that's their fault for not being careful right? They didn't have to do it. That's just sport.

Idiots.

Nope. A tightrope stretched over a waterfall is a course for a unicyce.

No, it's a course for bikes. World Tour. Because I say so. What, you don't like sport?

 

[Kwibus]

My thoughts are with Annemiek the most. Happy for Anna, but Annemiek had gold in hands.... At the age of 33 there won't likely come another chance and this could've been her performance that would've lasted the test of times in the Netherlands and then ...boom... all is gone and your in a hospital completely broken.

I'm heartbroken for her.

 

[Kwibus]

There is a false hospital picture of van Vleuten being spread on Twitter. Disgusting.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

Honestly, some keyboard warriors here. The type who'd happily have a cycling course featuring a tightrope stretched over a waterfall -- if they fall off that's their fault for not being careful right? They didn't have to do it. That's just sport.

Idiots.

Nope. A tightrope stretched over a waterfall is a course for a unicyce.

No, it's a course for bikes. World Tour. Because I say so. What, you don't like sport?

You're just being silly. They raced an asphalt road, with road markings, generally used by cars during the year. This is (part of) the definition of road cycling.

 

[Escarabajo]

My thoughts for Annemiek. This was a heart breaking finale. Sad for the crash and also sad that Mara got caught.

My wife was crying for the lady that crashed. Hope she is fine. And I hope my wife don't quit cycling.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

There is a false hospital picture of van Vleuten being spread on Twitter. Disgusting.

It comes from an article on wielerupdate that people are linking to - it has legit updates (but nothing we didn't already know from KNWU and NOS) and they've, for reasons unknown to any sensible person, decided it would be a good idea to illustrate the article with an old photo of Annemiek after an injury (I think it might be from Ponferrada). Because the updates in the article are legit reports on her status, the photo is being thought of as current. Podium Cafe RTed the article then immediately retracted and explained the photo was misleading.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

My thoughts for Annemiek. This was a heart breaking finale. Sad for the crash and also sad that Mara got caught.

My wife was crying for the lady that crashed. Hope she is fine. And I hope my wife don't quit cycling.

Cycling really is the most dangerous sport there is. I'm afraid....

Well with the exception of sports like base jumping and mountaineering etc, but you get the point.

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

My thoughts for Annemiek. This was a heart breaking finale. Sad for the crash and also sad that Mara got caught.

My wife was crying for the lady that crashed. Hope she is fine. And I hope my wife don't quit cycling.

Cycling really is the most dangerous sport there is. I'm afraid....

Well with the exception of sports like base jumping and mountaineering etc, but you get the point.

Yep spot on. Hope she makes a full and quick recovery, felt sick seeing that.

 

[jmdirt]

My stomach turned twice in the final 10 K of the woman's race: once when AvV went down, and once (or 100 times) in the last two K watching MA trying to hang on, and then get caught. Great fight though!

Congrats to VdB!

Thoughts AvV!

 

[Andy262]

BBC just reported update that AvV is 'stable' in hospital but no further info on extent of injuries. Peter Van Veen tweeted 'still in hospital for checks. No further news.'

 

[peloton]

Difficult to enjoy a race after seeing that horrendous crash. Hopefully AvV will be ok soon.

Great fight by Emma to get back, and nice sprint from all for podium. Heartbreaking for Mara.
Emotional roller coaster day. Now just hope AvV will be ok

 

[London Hibs]

Re:

BBC just reported update that AvV is 'stable' in hospital but no further info on extent of injuries. Peter Van Veen tweeted 'still in hospital for checks. No further news.'

This from Velorooms via Twitter:

Cyclist Annemiek van Vleuten "stable", "breathing", "able to communicate" after crash. No confirmation of injuries. (Olympic News Service)