There is no way Cancellera is Clean!

[python]

take it however you wish, but here's the story i heard...

after kolobnev finally received his bronze medal from beijing, he noticed it was in less than a mint condition.

having secured an opportune moment, he asked spartakus, 'what the hell were you doing with my meda'l ?

canc answered, 'cherish yours, alessandro, you got it from a true champion, mine ? I got it from a cheat.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Cancellara doesn't strike me as the most obvious candidate for "unbelievable" performances, like say the uniballer, Hamilton, Landis, Riis, Contador, etc...having said that we'll never know for sure, unless he tests positive for something.

Did you see him at E3?

 

[Yeahright]

Did you see him at E3?

I saw Jesse Owen in 1938 and he made it look pretty easy too...so your point is??

 

[webvan]

Make that 1936 but yes, I don't get it either. The guy is just stronger than the competition on flat ground. It's not like he suddenly became a mountain goat or an ITT superstar like two racers under investigation have. Wake me up the day Cancellara trounces AS or JR on the Ventoux...won't happen.

 

[luckyboy]

There's no way Johan Van Summeren is clean!

 

[The Hitch]

Make that 1936 but yes, I don't get it either. The guy is just stronger than the competition on flat ground. It's not like he suddenly became a mountain goat or an ITT superstar like two racers under investigation have. Wake me up the day Cancellara trounces AS or JR on the Ventoux...won't happen.

Wake me up the day Thomas Frei trounces AS on Ventoux. Didnt stop him doping.

Wake me up the day Pettachi beats the Gruppeto on a climb. Didnt stop him doping.

 

[jimmypop]

Cancellara doesn't strike me as the most obvious candidate for "unbelievable" performances, like say the uniballer, Hamilton, Landis, Riis, Contador, etc...having said that we'll never know for sure, unless he tests positive for something.

Looking back, the performances TH started to turn in at CSC should have raised some eyebrows.

 

[jimmypop]

Wake me up the day Pettachi beats the Gruppeto on a climb. Didnt stop him doping.

How insensitive! He has asthma.

 

[Anonymous]

I saw Jesse Owen in 1938 and he made it look pretty easy too...so your point is??

Dude...you're old...

 

[Anonymous]

How insensitive! He has asthma.

Better that than the vagina problems Valverde had...

 

[The Hitch]

Here are some posts I think some posters forgot to make.

As with the above poster, I'll second this several times over. Unfortunately, pompous, self-righteous fools are usually blind to the stupidity and irony of their own blinkered dogma.

End this tread

There is freedom of speech, but there is also defamation. Without the slightest evidence, I think we are close to the second one here...

So from the points you're listing here - because he's a very good professional cyclist who wants to win everything, trains with someone who was previously caught using PEDs and doesn't complain about someone winning, he is doping?

It's such a shame that because you know someone with a shady past, you can be automatically linked to performing the same actions as they have. Guilty by association is certainly strong with this one.

This is a guy that has never even been mentioned in any investigation. It's pretty sad this many people actually would make this assumption. It almost makes me never want to come in the clinic again....
almost...its too dang funny to not visit just to see the stuff flung in here...

+1 Good post. Around here if a guy wins one race he's probably doping, if he wins two races in a row then bring out the noose to hang him.

+1

Yeah well there is some funny stuff here, sounds like the purpose of this particular thread is to bait but I might be wrong. I dont think there's much to discuss anyway.

Some of the Radioshack performances this year have raised my eyebrows but this is just pointless.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Here are some posts I think some posters forgot to make.

Hey! Get back to your own Gilbert thread! All we need is more threads blown into uselessness by you being attacked for ethereal reasons...

 

[Benotti69]

Here are some posts I think some posters forgot to make.

I think posters should decide where,when and what they post. Not sure cross quoting from another thread for your personal reason is benefitting the discussion on Canc.

 

[The Hitch]

I think posters should decide where,when and what they post. Not sure cross quoting from another thread for your personal reason is benefitting the discussion on Canc.

Take note that none of the responses I quoted mention Gilbert. All of them claim to have a problem simply with the idea of accusing someone whose never been caught of doping.

The only difference between this and that thread are the names (Gilbert, Cancellara).

If someone has a problem with accusing people of doping purely based on their performances in the Gilbert thread, then surely they are consistent, fair minded people, in which case they should have no problem with me quoting this very same line of argument, in this Cancellara thread.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

'...'The only difference between this and that thread are the names (Gilbert, Cancellara).

If someone has a problem with accusing people of doping purely based on their performances in the Gilbert thread, then surely they are consistent, fair minded people, in which case they should have no problem with me quoting this very same line of argument, in this Cancellara thread.

The only difference between the thread titles is the name, but the discussion differs because the performances differ. You seem to be saying that if one rider is accused of doping purely because of their performance, then other riders should also be accused on the basis of a different performance.

If the point you are really trying to make is, that anyone prepared to question one successful rider's preparation should be prepared to question all others, I'm right with you.

 

[Benotti69]

Take note that none of the responses I quoted mention Gilbert. All of them claim to have a problem simply with the idea of accusing someone whose never been caught of doping.

The only difference between this and that thread are the names (Gilbert, Cancellara).

If someone has a problem with accusing people of doping purely based on their performances in the Gilbert thread, then surely they are consistent, fair minded people, in which case they should have no problem with me quoting this very same line of argument, in this Cancellara thread.

it is disingenious to take these quotes out of the context of the original thread and drop them into another thread like this and especially in the clinic. It seems petty and childish. I imagine Canc would not compare himself to Gilbert and visa versa.

 

[The Hitch]

it is disingenious to take these quotes out of the context of the original thread and drop them into another thread like this and especially in the clinic. It seems petty and childish. I imagine Canc would not compare himself to Gilbert and visa versa.

How are they out of context???

Not one of the posts mention anything about Gilbert or his performances.

They all say that ANY rider who has not tested positive AND is not under investigation should not be accused of doping.

Cancellara fits the bill 100%. Had one of them said something about Gilbert or his performances you would have a point. But none of them did, hence you can repeat yourself 100 more times if you like, you wont be able to make the generic rider in question anymore into Gilbert than Cancellara.

 

[wattage]

I think Cancellara is just smart about his doping. If he would start climbing with the best at TdF it would just raise too many eyebrows. Now when he just overpowers everyone on the flat races, it's just business as usual for everyone.

 

[Yeahright]

How are they out of context???

Not one of the posts mention anything about Gilbert or his performances.

They all say that ANY rider who has not tested positive AND is not under investigation should not be accused of doping.

Cancellara fits the bill 100%. Had one of them said something about Gilbert or his performances you would have a point. But none of them did, hence you can repeat yourself 100 more times if you like, you wont be able to make the generic rider in question anymore into Gilbert than Cancellara.

Okay I will play your silly game given I was one of your quoted posters. Gilbert has now won the last three classics. (I realise this is a Cancellara thread but you dragged this stuff over here so I am responding here). I do not think Gilbert is a doper. That is purely my own subjective feelings on the matter.

Objectively I have seen no evidence outside of his performances to dissuade me from that view. If you or others can present such evidence then i would be happy to consider it and change my view if the situation warranted it.

 

[La Pandera]

I think Cancellara is just smart about his doping. If he would start climbing with the best at TdF it would just raise too many eyebrows. Now when he just overpowers everyone on the flat races, it's just business as usual for everyone.

I get suspicious when a rider starts believing his own hype and talking himself up as superman and comparing himself to an aeroplane. Ricco was boastful and arrogant in the same way. Additionally they both showed a lack of sportsmanship when things failed to go their way as if they were entitled to their scripted successes. But of course that's just me.

 

[SuperHuman]

Doping suspicion list: Cancellara - 0.

 

[D-Queued]

Doping suspicion list: Cancellara - 0.

I was thinking he should be a minus 1, but I will go for minus zero since he is cleaner than all the other zeroes on the list.

Dave.

 

[mad black]

I get suspicious when a rider starts believing his own hype and talking himself up as superman and comparing himself to an aeroplane. Ricco was boastful and arrogant in the same way. Additionally they both showed a lack of sportsmanship when things failed to go their way as if they were entitled to their scripted successes. But of course that's just me.

95% of road cyclist are egomaniacs! There's nothing suspicious about it. If they wouldn't believe in themselves they'd never win anything. Cancellara is a prime example of one but he's got all rights to be so.

To the o.p. - it deeply saddens me that people can be so despiteous of fine performances. Just because some people around here can't even hold a 30k average over 40km on the flat with a tailwind, to them, it must be clearly impossible for anyone to hold 50k's without being on some sort of "program". The only "program" Cancellara and 80% of professional cyclists are on is called a training program.

 

[D-Queued]

95% of road cyclist are egomaniacs! There's nothing suspicious about it. If they wouldn't believe in themselves they'd never win anything. Cancellara is a prime example of one but he's got all rights to be so.

To the o.p. - it deeply saddens me that people can be so despiteous of fine performances. Just because some people around here can't even hold a 30k average over 40km on the flat with a tailwind, to them, it must be clearly impossible for anyone to hold 50k's without being on some sort of "program". The only "program" Cancellara and 80% of professional cyclists are on is called a training program.

Eddy Merckx, 49 kph, at altitude, on a (no rolling resistance) track. And, he may well have been appropriately juiced for that time.

Anything north of that is clearly impossible without a program - or without a short course, downhill and tailwind.

'nuff said.

Dave.

 

[mad black]

Eddy Merckx, 49 kph, at altitude, on a (no rolling resistance) track. And, he may well have been appropriately juiced for that time.

Anything north of that is clearly impossible without a program - or without a short course, downhill and tailwind.

'nuff said.

Dave.

Cancellara hasn't even attempted the hour record yet. Besides advances in technology are available today that haven't been outlawed by the UCI (yet) that may well account for 3 to 5km/h increase in average speed.

It really baffles me how the great Eddy stipulates the benchmark of performance. There's no other sport where some dude from 40 years ago on pre-historic equipment is regarded as the ultimate performer by some of its followers. Trainig methodology and equipment, importance of recovery, nutrition, technology, wind tunnel testing are just some of the areas where enormous gains have been made since Eddy the dinosaur.

And you in all honesty regard anyone capable of holding a 50k average in 2011 as a proven doper??? - You're pathetic!