There is no way Cancellera is Clean!

[spalco]

My read of the sprint finale is, that Cancellara tried to do what he does best, start the sprint from far out get a gap and somehow bring it over the line but he just didn't have enough gas in the tank anymore so he abandoned his first attempt, let Nuyens take over the front and save whatever he had left for one final desperate push which then wasn't enough anymore.

 

[Benotti69]

Cancellara didn't win => Clean

Canc didn't win because he bonked like the amateur he is he had to get a bottle from the shimano support car. whatever he is on must demand to be constantly fed when on the bike

and no it doesnt = clean. bet he still 'cleanly' wins PR

 

[Benotti69]

I'm probably going to regret this, but as long as we're indulging in idle, pointless speculation, let's play a little game. Let's assume Cancellara threw today's race; that is, could have won but chose to let someone else win instead (while trying to make it look good). IF Cancellara threw the race, what was his motivation?

I can think of two possible reasons. 1) If he'd continue to dominate as he did last year, and again this year at E3, he'd have taken too much heat from the peloton and everyone else concerned for too blatantly doping; or, 2) Not beating a Saxo rider if one was in contention was part of the agreement he made with Riis to get out of his contract.

Does anyone else think it possible that Cancellara threw the race?

i felt the exact same watching it today when he let them come back. Dont win an dont make it look too easy and then win PR and LBL. But he did say he bonked see above post.

Can see also the point that members of the peloton have had words about him making everyone else looking bad or him making it look like he is obviously doped. Doubt he had an agreement with Riis about letting his team win.

 

[Benotti69]

He wins, he's doping. He loses, he's throwing the race. You guys just live for the idea of cheating.

it would be nice if the 'EiC' could not be so tabloid about the discussion. If only the world were as black and white as the media like to portray it.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

i felt the exact same watching it today when he let them come back. Dont win an dont make it look too easy and then win PR and LBL. But he did say he bonked see above post.

Can see also the point that members of the peloton have had words about him making everyone else looking bad or him making it look like he is obviously doped.

Took a minute out of everyone, did 40k ITT - was pulled back by 7 BMC guys while 'bonking', got dropped by Gilbert but then managed to come back, attack again and came third...

I'm sure that 'normal' service will be resumed next week. Maybe we should open a spread on how long his solo attack will be? 60km, 40km?

 

[L'arriviste]

I'm probably going to regret this, but as long as we're indulging in idle, pointless speculation, let's play a little game. Let's assume Cancellara threw today's race; that is, could have won but chose to let someone else win instead (while trying to make it look good). ...

Does anyone else think it possible that Cancellara threw the race?

i felt the exact same watching it today when he let them come back. Dont win an dont make it look too easy and then win PR and LBL. But he did say he bonked see above post.

Can see also the point that members of the peloton have had words about him making everyone else looking bad or him making it look like he is obviously doped. Doubt he had an agreement with Riis about letting his team win.

Took a minute out of everyone, did 40k ITT - was pulled back by 7 BMC guys while 'bonking', got dropped by Gilbert but then managed to come back, attack again and came third...

I'm sure that 'normal' service will be resumed next week. Maybe we should open a spread on how long his solo attack will be? 60km, 40km?

Ah, glad to see I'm not the only one who "indulged" in this "subversive thinking" yesterday. I even said to my other half when they were brought back, I bet Cancellara tries to go again 'more legitimately' with 1km to go. He didn't do that but he did manage to pull a biggish sprint out of the bag despite bonking. Impressive stuff. I don't know if he could have thrown it or not. Probably not. But it's sad how this sport has gotten me thinking these days.

 

[R.0.t.O]

Obviously Cancellara is doped, I mean FFS who could look at the whole history of cycling and conclude that finally we have a rider who wins major races on bread and water, and it also happens to be a guy who specialises in smashing races to pieces over 40 or 50km individual efforts? But he's awesome at what he does, he's 'believable' in the sense that he's the best in the world at what he does and somebody has to be the best at it. This isn't an Armstrong-style mockery where he suddenly dominates at things he was rubbish at a few years ago. The way Fabian wins is a very tough way to win and when it comes off it looks incredible, but there are fine lines and only a few % less and he'd look like Flecha.

Quickstep worked him over reasonably well yesterday and Boonen would have won if he'd had the legs in the finale. It's bizarre to suggest Cancellara threw the race, doubly so if you're talking about the last km, what do you suggest he do differently - wait for Boonen to come back up? He was certainly caught out just before the Muur; looked like he backed off the gas to prepare to hit Chavanel on the climb and was surprised by how quick Gilbert was bringing the group back up. That sort of thing happens when you're brave and race from the front.

 

[Tangled Tango]

To me it looked like Cancellara leading Nuyens out, then cutting off Chavanel. I mean, if you look at the replay, it sure seems that way.

Or Cancellara was trying to catch Nuyens´s wheel. Doesn´t look like dirty pool to me. Just a last ditch effort and Chavanel really didn´t have anywhere to go as Nuyens was too close to the right barriers for him to get around, even if he could of done so.

 

[roundabout]

I don't think anyone's saying Cancellara is the only one, but people suspect he's a protected rider.

Given the support one certainly protected rider still seems to have here (and elsewhere) that's not it either.

 

[Chuffy]

B If you want to take the Cancellara must be doping because hes a top cyclist angle, then prove that Gilbert ISNT doping. that Boonen ISNT doping. That Pozzato ISNT doping That Ballan ISNT doping. . All these guys with World CHampionshonships, 4 out of the 5 monuments and stages in every gt between them, were in that race too and were up there.

Interesting post - I'd like to know *how* anyone can prove they are not doping. Proving a negative is a logical impossibility anyway and is there anything that posters on here would accept as 'proof'?

Suggestions on a postcard please....

 

[Ferminal]

Interesting post - I'd like to know *how* anyone can prove they are not doping. Proving a negative is a logical impossibility anyway and is there anything that posters on here would accept as 'proof'?

Suggestions on a postcard please....

Do what Gerdemann said over the Tour, or for these guys it would be more like for the classics season.

 

[Yeahright]

He wins, he's doping. He loses, he's throwing the race. You guys just live for the idea of cheating.

Agreed, its quite sad really.

Cancellara himself said that he went early because he saw Boonen closing. At the end of the day, if you want to see reds under the bed you will. There was a comment made earlier about people being blinkered, that cuts both ways. It seems to me that you can win, but not too much and certainly not too easily. Hence if he does win easily and often, then he must be doping. If he only wins occasionally then he is throwing races to avoid been fingered for doping. Bit of a joke really.

As to him being a 'protected rider' I thinks thats ridiculous, but I guess with Armstrong gone certain individuals need another target for their obsession.

 

[hrotha]

Given the support one certainly protected rider still seems to have here (and elsewhere) that's not it either.

I think you're confusing things. There's a difference between being popular and being widely believed to be dirty (Vinokourov clearly demonstrating this principle). Now, if we have a dirty rider, the whole point of the Clinic is to talk about it. Being protected would seem to be an important part of the game, so it's normal that it's talked about, but that doesn't imply someone is more or less popular. Few people would argue Contador wasn't protected up to the point the positive leaked (I'm still not sure where the UCI stands right now, but that's for another thread).

If we're going to debate whether Cancellara is clean (a debate for which we have little semi-solid evidence even by Clinic standards), we have to consider whether he's a protected rider. If he is, that doesn't mean we want his head on a pike - Pat's head, on the other hand...

As to him being a 'protected rider' I thinks thats ridiculous, but I guess with Armstrong gone certain individuals need another target for their obsession.

Excuse me, how does acknowledging Armstrong wasn't a unique example of UCI protection imply an obsession with LA?

 

[L'arriviste]

As to him being a 'protected rider' I thinks thats ridiculous, but I guess with Armstrong gone certain individuals need another target for their obsession.

Cool it, bro. You're the one bringing up Armstrong on a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with him. Get back on topic.

 

[Ferminal]

As above... please ignore the Armstrong reference from here on.

 

[spalco]

Cancellara was also critical of the current anti-doping system, and suggested that too many different agencies were testing riders and that cyclists were tested more often than other athletes.

“It would be important to have better balance,” he said. “If I continue like this, I’ll break my record of 58 controls in 2009. It doesn’t seem right to me and it makes me suspicious. Sometimes the different anti-doping bodies seem to work one against the other, and a lot of money is thrown away.”

I would argue it's money well spent, but with on average 1 test a week, how much margin is there really for an athlete to use PEDs? I mean, at some point it has to get really ****ing risky, or not?

 

[Digger]

I would argue it's money well spent, but with on average 1 test a week, how much margin is there really for an athlete to use PEDs? I mean, at some point it has to get really ****ing risky, or not?

Not really with proper masking agents, proper planning, resources and maybe time for showers.....

 

[Benotti69]

Not really with proper masking agents, proper planning, resources and maybe time for showers.....

+1 plenty of anecdotal evidence to back it up.

 

[hrotha]

It does get riskier, just ask Contador.

 

[Benotti69]

It does get riskier, just ask Contador.

Maybe if Contador was Swiss.......

 

[Cobber]

Must've figured out how to get a motor into a Trek frame.....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancellara-warns-rivals-to-fasten-seatbelts-ahead-of-paris-roubaix

 

[Yeahright]

Cool it, bro. You're the one bringing up Armstrong on a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with him. Get back on topic.

Actually the 'A; word was brought up by another poster in response to an earlier post I made on the topic, so my reference to him was in context to that.

Believe me I am over the 'A' debates on here!!

 

[Yeahright]

Maybe if Contador was Swiss.......

Oh dear, you can get professional help for your apparent condition!

 

[roundabout]

I think you're confusing things. There's a difference between being popular and being widely believed to be dirty (Vinokourov clearly demonstrating this principle). Now, if we have a dirty rider, the whole point of the Clinic is to talk about it. Being protected would seem to be an important part of the game, so it's normal that it's talked about, but that doesn't imply someone is more or less popular. Few people would argue Contador wasn't protected up to the point the positive leaked (I'm still not sure where the UCI stands right now, but that's for another thread).

If we're going to debate whether Cancellara is clean (a debate for which we have little semi-solid evidence even by Clinic standards), we have to consider whether he's a protected rider. If he is, that doesn't mean we want his head on a pike - Pat's head, on the other hand...

I really doubt that i am confusing anything. My point is that negativity toward Cancellara leading up to (and after Flanders) can not simply be explained by him enjoying protection from the UCI like it seemed to me that you tried to do.

It may be true that he is a protected rider and dirty however it doesn't change the fact that he seems to attract extra flak for reasons best described as somewhat irrational (there's at least one poster in this thread who lacks the ability to take a consistent stance on suspicious riders).

 

[Yeahright]

“I’m very happy: there were fifty of them behind a gladiator,” Cancellara continued. “It was a spectacle and a double satisfaction: I lost by trying to win, the others rode only to make me lose. And in the end the one who was always in the wheels won. Congratulations to Nuyens, but for me [winning] like that has no value.”

Although his hopes of winning the Flanders-Roubaix double for the second successive year have been dashed, Cancellara believes that he is the favourite to collect his third Hell of the North on Sunday.

“In Flanders I was the only one of the big riders in front, and so I would say I am still the number one favourite,” he said. “I am the only man in the world who can make an attack like the one in Flanders, or in Roubaix in 2010. Everybody knows that if I’m at 100 percent they have to fasten their seatbelts, like on an aeroplane.”

Spoken like a man with something to hide???? Something a 'protected rider would say? His ego is as big as his motor (and not an electric one either!) but these comments do not speak to me of a man who is worried about testing positive.

Bring on PR I say and I hope he kick some serious *** and leaves the wheel suckers grovelling in the mud!

My fantasy finish would be a breakaway of Fab, Gilbert, Boonen and Hushovd and then let the best man win! Whoever wins I hope they do it from the front and not by sitting on for 40km.